8-4-7-2

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Diving Mullah

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I don't know why the previous thread got locked... this is one of the more interesting debates!

I do understand where you are coming from, but few points.

Israelis and Arabs have been living in that part of world for thousands of years, so no one religion owns that particular land.

The fact that Israelis can kick the **** out of Arabs is because they can... If the situation was reversed (as is in many other countries) Arabs would be on the aggressor side.

The Israel sits in a region that is surrounded by hostile forces, who wouldn't mind for that country to vanish. Israelis forces do whatever it is necessary to insure their survival, and so far it has worked.

Every country knows that if they attack Israel, they will get attacked back with the maximum force, no warning, no complains to United Nations, they bomb and ask questions later.

Do I agree with this tactics... NO not really, Do I think It is necessary... Absolutely.

The sad part is that Even if you give the peace away no body wants it, neither Israelis nor Arabs!

That is religion for you!!!


Mullah
 

8-4-7-2

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It's a fact that Isreal only has it's military power from tremendous support by the USA. Yet ambassador's travel through the region from to time, trying to solve problems, that wouldn't be as bad without the weapon supplies.
If the USA just stood up and say "Listen Sharon, step down, and limit your actions" they would do it

I don't say that if Israel doesn't attack, the Arabs are silent. Israel gave them a few weeks once, to not commit any bombings, and yet they did.

However everything Israel does is overreaction, based on eye for an eye. Terrorists kill 2 soldiers, then Israel kills 20 cilvilians. As if that solves the problem :rolleyes:

Maybe a truce isn't the solution either, or isn't possible at all, but force won't help for sure
 

Jesco

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You said som true things in that locked thread, 84. I once said something similiar in my philosophy course back in school... it got me a horrible grade. Comparisons with the third Reich and the Nazi should are easily misunderstood.

But while I agree that Israels current policy of retaliation and past policy of segregation from the Palaestineans is more than questionable, I do think that both sides did learn nothing from their past. Israel might build illegal settlements on palaestinean ground, retaliate against civil institutions and buildings and treat the Palaestineans as people of second class, but it's Palaestinean extremists running into school-busses and market-places as human-bombs.

I, personally, never saw a problem in the fact both, the Israels and Palaestineans, claim Palestina as the sacred land. It's large enough for both of them and I wouldn't care if some arabic or jewish people are celebrating their rituals one hundred yards away from my temple or synagoge. It's their religion and I have mine. Basta.

But obviously, the Palaestineans and Israelic do see a problem... :rolleyes:

And now, well, now the mess is there and I have no idea how it could be resolved. The peace process seemed to have died along with Yitzhak Rabin... :(
 
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8-4-7-2

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Yes, the Palestinian terrorist are morons for sure. I didn't defend their actions.

It's very ironic that a rightwing Israeli killed Rabin :(
 

Fomhoire

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Well, the thread didn't get out of control and I really don't think it should have been locked.

Anyway, 8-4-7-2...

A lot of people feel the same way you do. The reason this goes on can be explained with one word, politics.

It doesn't have to make sense.

This is one of those things where somehow a group of people think it is right to do something and can't see how it affects the people that are being displaced in this, which is my problem with the whole issue. If they want their "promised" land, fine. But it is not necessary to bulldoze the homes of people that have been living there.

The larger problem I think is that the rest of the world, especially politicians, don't have the balls to stand up for what is truly righ, but instead go along with what is politcally "correct" which many times is at the political expense of another group. This goes beyond Israel and extends to companies paying employees 10¢ a day wages in China, allowing people on welfare to expand their families at the expense of the taxpayers, allowing landlords to evict 400 tenants so the property can be sold at a higher value, and the list goes on with controversial topics.
 

Balton

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THE ANSWER!


throw ALL religiouns over board AND declare ANARCHY!






...and then? all problems solved?

I think it's a question of education.
 

Fomhoire

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There is the reason for a large amount of the hostility.

As for resolving it? Don't support Israel's EVERY whim.


Originally posted by Jesco
Israel might build illegal settlements on palaestinean ground, retaliate against civil institutions and buildings and treat the Palaestineans as people of second class, but it's Palaestinean extremists running into school-busses and market-places as human-bombs.


And now, well, now the mess is there and I have no idea how it could be resolved. The peace process seemed to have died along with Yitzhak Rabin... :(
 

ben harkins

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Originally posted by Fomhoire
Well, the thread didn't get out of control and I really don't think it should have been locked.

Anyway, 8-4-7-2...

A lot of people feel the same way you do. The reason this goes on can be explained with one word, politics.

It doesn't have to make sense.

This is one of those things where somehow a group of people think it is right to do something and can't see how it affects the people that are being displaced in this, which is my problem with the whole issue. If they want their "promised" land, fine. But it is not necessary to bulldoze the homes of people that have been living there.

The larger problem I think is that the rest of the world, especially politicians, don't have the balls to stand up for what is truly righ, but instead go along with what is politcally "correct" which many times is at the political expense of another group. This goes beyond Israel and extends to companies paying employees 10¢ a day wages in China, allowing people on welfare to expand their families at the expense of the taxpayers, allowing landlords to evict 400 tenants so the property can be sold at a higher value, and the list goes on with controversial topics.


Oh god, that was a really foolish rant.

I'm not going to dissect it, although the temptation is strong. I'll just make a couple of points:

No homes are being bulldozed to make room for Israel. Ground was taken and lost by Israel in various military campaigns ever since the British withdrawal in 1948. Clearly the Palestian people have been displaced, but then again, so were the American Indians with the founding of America. I'm not condoning the act, I'm just saying that it needs to be taken in the context of a war, which more or less Israel has been at since its beginnings. Israel was established because frankly, when the British pulled out, the Israeli's defeated the armies of most of the Arab world, which at the time were attempting to annihilate them. It was a war, and people lose their homes in wars. Sad but true.

I have no idea why you think Israel survives because political correctness protects them from being criticized. Israel is, has and always will be widely criticized. If you mean why does America not take a stand against Israel, well, that's because Israel is America's only stable ally in a crucial part of the world. I'm really astounded that you think the whole thing is a political correctness issue just because there are Jews involved. Totally rediculous.

Don't get the wrong idea, no one in their right mind would support the violence visited on the Palestinian people by the Israeli government. Well thought out criticism of the situation is always valuable, semi-lucid ranting we could certainly do without.