1.5 new FHI maps - beta

[IronMonkey]

I've put a couple of new FHI maps up for consideration by my betters

Whilst there are two maps, they have (more or less) the same set of brushes.

One map is intended for straightforward FHI and the other for those playing RPG.

The FHI map is (IMHO) the more complex - rewarding (I hope) team players and the nimble and with some degree of risk vs. reward (a Yiccus.

The RPG map is a recognition that it is not possible to have significant risk/reward challenges in RPG as the risk cannot easily be scaled by player level and also that the RPG player's focus is more on point scoring. Accordingly, the Yiccus is there for the taking and the monsters spawn directly in front of the players to create a kill zone and avoid monster attrition caused by the monsters battling each other.

These are betas! Constructive comments would be most welcome. Things that I think still need to be improved in the FHI map are:

• Improve exterior lighting - need bloom on ramp lights
• Emitter by crashed vehicle looks pretty rubbish
• Fix interior lighting - static meshes of the emergency lighting look partially lit but do not emit light. Either add rotating lights or lose the static meshes
• Dissuade the bots from trying to get to the Yiccus - they aren't smart enough
• Possibly add a physics volume to push the monsters onto the Jumppads
• Add some location signs
• Ignore somewhat dodgy skybox
• Frame rate iffy when full phalanx of monsters on screen - suggestions for improvement welcome!
• Exterior fogging not operational yet

Those who look at the maps in the editor will see unused areas - my ambition originally outran my ability but sanity prevailed and I cut back on the size of the map. A future version might open those areas up and the map will become more of a "hold the fort"/OBJ map. One day...

For the record, I intend to keep my day job.

The maps can be found at:
FHI:
http://www.zen37847.zen.co.uk/UT2K4/FHI-EuropaBaseRedoubtBeta03.zip and
FHI-RPG:
http://www.zen37847.zen.co.uk/UT2K4/FHI-RPG-EuropaBaseRedoubtBeta02.zip

Thanks to Lighbringer and JaggedMetal for their helpful comments on earlier versions.

 

[Turret 49]

The 32 killer sentinels owned me and the bots

 

[IronMonkey]

The 32 killer sentinels owned me and the bots

LOL

I did mention risk vs. reward!

The Yiccus can definitely be taken by human players. Use the translocator for rapid movement (and remember to switch auto weapon switching off - it is very embarrassing to get the Yiccus and then be taken out whilst fumbling for the translocator

In part this is also why it is a beta. Is the balance right? Should there be 16 sentinels and not 32 or maybe 48?

I know that the bots are too dim to get the Yiccus. I haven't quite figured out how to make that path unattractive to bots without also affecting the monsters. Work in progress

I have found that the most effective way to play the map is to get the Yiccus during the warm-up before the monsters arrive, pick-up more ammo (at the side of the cage) and then the riotshotgun. Stay well back and use the Yiccus for as long as possible. If the monsters get into the hangar then switch to riotshotgun for that close-up finishing touch. YMMV.

 

[lvlorpheus]

Will check them out ASAP

 

[lvlorpheus]

Tested the normal FHI version, quite a good map

A little more ambient lighting inside the base and outside. Perhaps pale blue lighting to match the surrounding terrain colours.

I think you've used far too many lights for the edge lighting around the landing pad. Try using 1 light for the close up lighting and maybe a couple lights to increase the lading pad brighteness (See images).

I used Brightness 120 | Hue 42 | Saturation 191 | Radius 8

What about some extra detail in the base? Some steel support smeshes, maybe some damage?

I used some smeshes from SG_LO_meshes, Plutonic_BP2_static and X_AW-MechMeshes to create a quick example. Added some quick lighting.

Hope this helps or gives you some ideas

 

[IronMonkey]

Tested the normal FHI version, quite a good map

Thank you for the compliment and the effort that you have put into your comments. Much appreciated!

A little more ambient lighting inside the base and outside. Perhaps pale blue lighting to match the surrounding terrain colours.

Hmm, yes, you're right. This is one of the things that I struggled with on this map. I started with the mantra that "ambient lighting is bad, using it is lazy". Like all absolute rules, experience teaches one when to break it. I think I might be having that experience round about now (This is only my 3rd map and the first two were remakes of UT99 5Cubes maps The searchlights were an attempt to pick out the hightlights of the cliffs but I think you are right. A little ambient lighting never did anyone any harm.

Your image has captured almost exactly what I wanted but couldn't achieve (as long as there was no ambient light).

I think you've used far too many lights for the edge lighting around the landing pad.

Quite correct. This I have already started fixing. I had originally copied some lighting from one of Parsers maps. He uses a similar construct - the difference is that it works in his map and not in mine Adding ambient light will also give me more freedom with the light radius. I hope to end up with something like your sample images.

What about some extra detail in the base? Some steel support smeshes, maybe some damage?

I used some smeshes from SG_LO_meshes, Plutonic_BP2_static and X_AW-MechMeshes to create a quick example. Added some quick lighting.

LOL.

I had the beams and then took them out because I wanted the ceiling pipes. It never occurred to me to lower them a little (feeling very dim at this moment.

Putting some stuff in the hoist grabs is a good idea.

Unless I can justify additional interior lights then I will try and avoid them. However, I'll look again to see if I can add some more lighting to the interior.

Hope this helps or gives you some ideas

A lot!

 

[Parser]

Just tried it, it's pretty cool but my framerates hit the ground.

One suggestion would be to perhaps give the inside some brighter and more cohesive lighting to provide a contrast to the outside bit. Unfortunately, I'm not really a mapper so that's just a general player comment. Apart from that and Morph's suggestions though, cool.

Also, if you read the new stickied topic for this section, how would you feel about the map being part of "it"?

 

[IronMonkey]

Just tried it, it's pretty cool but my framerates hit the ground.

Not quite sure why the framerates drop other than when the monsters spawn. Before the monsters spawn the frame rate is quite acceptable. I suppose the next version will have fewer monster spawn points (what is the relationship between number of monster spawn points and number of monsters on screen/in the level?)

Apart from that and Morph's suggestions though, cool.

Thank you.

Also, if you read the new stickied topic for this section, how would you feel about the map being part of "it"?

Very pleased! (although it might be best to wait until I have incorporated all of the comments)

I have one other offence to be taken into consideration

http://www.zen37847.zen.co.uk/UT2K4/FHI-5CubesCliffyB2k4beta003.zip

A quick FHI converstion of my DM remake of a UT99 5 Cubes map by CliffyB.

As a FHI map, it is only beta because the level screenshots show the original DM weapons (if you look hard enough and the level now has FHI weapons.

For beginners (like me), remaking 5 cube maps is a nice easy intro to ued. A big enough task to be useful but not so big that the beginner gets overwhelmed.

 

[lvlorpheus]

Glad I could help

I'll check out the 5 cube map soon.

 

[IronMonkey]

Glad I could help

I'll check out the 5 cube map soon.

Just remember, there are only 5 cubes (brushes - they aren't quite cubes)! Don't expect a rich and deep experience

 

[IronMonkey]

Just tried it, it's pretty cool but my framerates hit the ground.

Some progress on the frame rate front. By way of experiment, I deleted all of the lights in the level (~350) and just used zone lighting. The worst case frame rates more than doubled.

This is good news as I assume that I can make a big improvement by using more zone lighting and (as planned) cutting the number of lights on the ramp to a third of the original number. Other optimisations might be possible.

Time to (re-)read the lighting chapter MUTTAOLD...

 

[IronMonkey]

New version

I've put a new version of the FHI map up at:

http://www.zen37847.zen.co.uk/UT2K4/FHI-EuropaBaseRedoubtBeta06.zip

The main differences are that the frame rates are much improved (a combination of simplifying the exterior lighting, reducing the number of monster spawn points, reducing lines of sight and getting rid of most of the sentinels). On my system, even when busy the frame rates do not drop below what I typically get as a worst case when playing other FHI maps (~10-12fps@800x600HQ). It would be helpful if others could confirm that.

Play changes include making only the end of the exterior ramp under the gaze of the sentinels so it is now possible to go a reasonable distance outside without getting toasted. This makes it possible for the bots to actually get the Yiccus most of the time and makes it a little less boring for the players as they aren't hemmed into the hangar all the time. Quid quo pro is that there is now no RiotShotGun ammo in the hangar.

Some clutter has been added inside as suggested but hangars (in my experience at least) do tend to have large open spaces within them - that was part of the attraction of the setting, I could justify large interior spaces. That said, if the monsters force their way past the barracades into the open space then the team playing that map is in trouble

Getting the monsters onto the exterior ramp works much better now.

If there are no outraged comments after a couple of weeks I will probably move the map to "final" status and produce an RPG-oriented version (although I am toying with the idea for RPG of reversing the map and having the players spawn outside and the monsters inside).

Thanks for all of the helpful comments.

 

[Kaithofis]

Actually, I prefer the lightning in the original.

I'm against using zonelight. Imo the lightning in the hangar is a little bland and bright right now (as opposed to before), and the ambientlit cliffs just take away a portion of the atmosphere. Plus that it clashes alot with the yellow skybox.

Speaking about that, the skybox and lightning should be similar. Although I don't think yellow lightning would look good on these icy cliffs.

Anyway, randomly placed lights kinda have a cool effect. They don't light all of the cliffs, but give you a good idea of what's around you.

(to give you an idea of what I mean, place 2 default lights with radiuses of 128 at (-3213,-3204,1082) and (2938,-7092,2543))

EDIT: And you might aswell delete the half of the map you aren't using

 

[IronMonkey]

New New Version

Actually, I prefer the lightning in the original.

I'm against using zonelight.

In general, I agree. I'm still learning the proper balance (and tricks).

Imo the lightning in the hangar is a little bland and bright right now (as opposed to before), and the ambientlit cliffs just take away a portion of the atmosphere. Plus that it clashes alot with the yellow skybox.

The exterior lighting is now much closer to what lvlorpheus was trying to get me to do (he is not responsible for my inability to acquire clue

One problem is that stretched and overlapping meshes do not light well (I assume that is an artifact of the vertex lighting)

There is still a touch of zone lighting left in the interior but it is a lot dimmer. Despite having the same monitor model at home and work (Ilyama LS902UT) and same graphic driver versions, I am getting quite different looks for the brightness of a level depending on where I edit the level.

Speaking about that, the skybox and lightning should be similar. Although I don't think yellow lightning would look good on these icy cliffs.

Noted for future reference.

I started with vague ambitions towards reality and that drove the skybox. As you might note, I didn't quite get there. For example, gravity is too high and there are blue ice cliffs - the white ice textures just didn't work for what I was trying to do - when Europa is white and featureless.

EDIT: And you might aswell delete the half of the map you aren't using

I would if I could but I can't! Whenever I have attempted that all that results is a mess of HoM

Anyway, new version is at:

http://www.zen37847.zen.co.uk/UT2K4/FHI-EuropaBaseRedoubtBeta09.zip

Thanks for the comments.

PS. Level screenshots are old. No point in fixing those until map is final.

 

[IronMonkey]

Final versions now available

I've put up what I hope are now the final versions of these maps.

Frame rates are now much improved (fewer lights, fewer turrets and using blocking volumes for collision detection on the cliffs - they were set for per poly collision detection)

As before, two versions a straight FHI version and an FHI-RPG version (which should score much better than the straight FHI version).

The maps can be found at

FHI: http://www.zen37847.zen.co.uk/UT2K4/FHI-EuropaBaseRedoubt.zip

FHI-RPG: http://www.zen37847.zen.co.uk/UT2K4/FHI-RPG-EuropaBaseRedoubt.zip

Thank you to all of you for your help and guidance.

 

[lvlorpheus]

Ah ha the final version, sorry I didn't get chance to give the beta another spin. Been a bit busy with erm Fraghouse 'stuff'

Nice map worthy of a Fraghouse new mention? *hint*

 

[Parser]

Yeah! IronMonkey, would you object to those two maps being the first files to go on the new Community page? They'd be hosted on Fileworks and we'd be happy to post news about them/pimp them, etc. It'd be a way of saying thanks for the support.

 

[IronMonkey]

Yeah! IronMonkey, would you object to those two maps being the first files to go on the new Community page? They'd be hosted on Fileworks and we'd be happy to post news about them/pimp them, etc. It'd be a way of saying thanks for the support.

Of course not!

They don't have to be the first two. I think several community contributions from LB & Mr. Smiles merit that honour and have not yet received much publicity.

 

[Parser]

Check out the news and the community page.

 

[MrSmiles]

IronMonkey has more of my maps than i do

monkey, didn't you upload them somewhere?