CTF4!

[Rip]

New gametype to play with! I must say it works awesome with EO. Honestly, I might like to see it replace main CTF as my default gametype..... well, too early for that, I suppose.

Right now I have it heavily populated with bots so you can get the full experience. Eventually, I'll add some way for players to choose whether or not to have bots, but for now I've given several people the admin password and they can add or remove the bots.

I think this will be a fun mode even 1v1, in fact I find it preferable. And the maps! Some of our favorites, done better. Great stuff.

HOW TO PLAY! There are 4 teams instead of 2. You can cap EVERY team's flag, and CARRY every team's flag at the same time! Even your own, because when your flag is DROPPED, you have to CARRY it back! Hehehe.



CTF4 can get a lot more complicated than this, and I want to try it that way, but keeping it 'simple' lol for now. I've also heard you can play with only one flag, and many other cool things, even if it's a feature from some other multi-team mod I have to add. Lots, lots of possibilities stemming from CTF4.

But one of the best things about CTF4 is that it's a way for even teams in these times. You don't have to worry about balancing games anymore, or waiting for your turn, if it's CTF4.

ISSUES! Well, there are a couple drawbacks right now. FastCap and SmartCTF don't work for it out-of-the-box. I'll have to find versions that do or make them myself. Wonderful thing about my mapvote you guys are always hating on (I hate it too, I still have nightmares about setting it up....!) is that each gametype can be *perfectly* separate. Different map folder, different severpackages, different settings, different mutators. The one I was using before wasn't even keeping the mutators separate even though I was telling it to.

 

[xts-sparky]

I don't mind the mapvote at all. It's not as pretty and I can't double click but it functions better for the server.
Is the cap limit set higher for CTF4? Obviously things can end quickly if you cap all three flags at once. Having to carry your flag back sounds like a big challenge, but one I look forward to. If I am not hitting walls with it, I can use the translocator to get to the other side of a map as fast as if not faster than anybody, and often do when my flag is out just to get it back quickly even if I know I'm dead. Now I will have to watch out for my surroundings.

I like the idea of CTF4 and one flag. That would be a lot of fun lol.

 

[Rip]

I don't mind the mapvote at all. It's not as pretty and I can't double click but it functions better for the server.
Is the cap limit set higher for CTF4? Obviously things can end quickly if you cap all three flags at once. Having to carry your flag back sounds like a big challenge, but one I look forward to. If I am not hitting walls with it, I can use the translocator to get to the other side of a map as fast as if not faster than anybody, and often do when my flag is out just to get it back quickly even if I know I'm dead. Now I will have to watch out for my surroundings.

I like the idea of CTF4 and one flag. That would be a lot of fun lol.

Love getting your input Sparky! Yeah, I have the cap limit set at 9 for now, but that's just a wild guess. We'll have to see how it plays. Can adjust the time limit too if necessary. Built-in to CTF4 there are other options, such as the one for carrying your flag back, translocating with the flag, losing points for your team every time your flag is capped, the game ending when your points reach the opposite of the goal, you getting assigned a specific flag to capture, and.... perhaps the one I'm most interested in, having to cap EACH team's flag the number of cap limit. After you've reached the cap limit for a team, you can no longer touch their flag. I'd like to try that. And maybe in another multi-team mod, your team is eliminated when that happens, and you get put on another, or stay but can't cap - I could try to implement that if it's not in CTF4. I could also code some scripting that when your flag is capped, "defenses" activate..... hehehe, bots, turrets, spawning - and NW3 has some "defense bots" that would blow your mind, cooler and better done than you can imagine, that I could take. Like I said haha, a lot of possibilities stemming from CTF4.

And actually, I could very easily implement the carry the flag back function in our classic CTF, but I'm afraid I should leave it vanilla.

In either mode, I could try giving the flag carrier buffs or debuffs, and the idea really interests me but people would probably like for me to leave that alone hehe.

 

[MÆST]

I can confirm ... if we don't have 4+ players ... CTF4 is a fun way to go.

 

[Rip]

I can confirm ... if we don't have 4+ players ... CTF4 is a fun way to go.

 

[xts-sparky]

So I had a bit of downtime this afternoon, I continued on what I started at lunch. Made quite a bit of progress.

@Rip @Dagger
CTF4-Midway

Going to take another look at it later when I have a minute to see if I want to do anything else but so far I think it'll work good. The only thing missing is botpaths... those should be interesting.

 

[Rip]

You ROCK Sparky!

Lay them out however you think is best, and the less trouble you have to go to the more you can do! Hehe. But, I've been thinking that with CTF4, and the minimum amount of players we have, that even in EO it might be better if sometimes the base 'foyers' weren't there. It might make CTF4 more enjoyable for people who say things like "this isn't excessive." (when they lose. *poke,* *prod*) The middle areas are the best part. I imagine that would be quite a bit of trouble though.... you would have to break and reconnect bot paths and a lot more complicated stuff than I'm thinking of I'm sure.

 

[xts-sparky]

I'm going to finish this one up as is, afterwards I'll make a version 2 And attempt to remove the front part of three base. I have a few ideas on how to make that nice.

Since I'm at a point of no bot paths i can take a copy of the current state and branch off. I'm curious how the middle will be received as is now. I had to replace it and it isn't as complex as the original, i dont posess The skillset to replicate it right now, and adapt for 4-way play. Perhaps ill wait to get feedback to see if i should change things up for V2

 

[xts-sparky]

If there are any other maps you would like to see made ctf4, let me know and ill try. I enjoy the process oddly. Midway is easy and so far my only success because of the simple design and architecture.

I woukd really love to get BridgeXL done but something is just not working there, and im lost as to where to go to fix.

Right now most of the ones that are up are floating worlds. Jewel face and woot feel like the same map. Need some variety, and i want things to meet in the middle for more action.

 

[Rip]

If there are any other maps you would like to see made ctf4, let me know and ill try. I enjoy the process oddly. Midway is easy and so far my only success because of the simple design and architecture.

I woukd really love to get BridgeXL done but something is just not working there, and im lost as to where to go to fix.

Right now most of the ones that are up are floating worlds. Jewel face and woot feel like the same map. Need some variety, and i want things to meet in the middle for more action.

I think some of the best maps that could be CTF4 for us are actually not the ones we'd usually play, unless sections were cut. Midway is a great one though. I say look at the "1on1" maps like Joust! You would have to create a middle area, though. But that could be fun, right? Hehe. I actually have several awesome "1on1" and "duel" name maps that are just great, and I'm going to put them up when I redo the map list. I'm going to cut a lot out of the maplist. Even great ones like Warrior.... don't really need to be on there right now. I want to put an emphasis on great, tight play, but also want the maps to pass a certain good looks test too heh!

I think the key for enjoyment in CTF4 is going to be tight play where you've got incentive to gather more flags rather than just make a long RJ back and forth constantly capping one or just collecting one for each RJ - if somebody is trying hard to win in that scenario and knows what they're doing, it can be unenjoyable for others and the winner. Not that I don't like that myself. But we already have those maps, and a map where you have to fight for every inch, could be different.

For BridgeXL, I saw other Bridge maps that were cut of the same cloth, just some modifications - I would look at them, if not to use them, then for ideas on how to do what you want.

Oh, found a AndAction CTF4 map too, good stuff.

Looking at the map folder now for good candidates, let's see.... ah, I'm probably going to be tossing out insane ideas you shouldn't waste your time attempting, so beware! Haha.

Avenger with a middle area that is just a cross walkway high up and death below! That would be awesome!

BollWerk105 somehow is intriguing.

Burgerwars! Haha.

Fin! Oh yeah!

GreatWall_XL would be great just as is! It would be a very different experience. Make the wall a square castle instead, maybe kill the tunnels, prob easier than most my suggestions. ;-)

IcyBeaches with just ONE base! Bridges for each team extending out over the water from the one tower. Thinking about it makes me shiver. :-D

Morning, perhaps!

Noonraid with just the first cross hallway out of the base as the middle going four ways.

Pyro with NO bridges, no spans, just lava between the bases! The bots could uhhhhhhh actually...... with FerBotz.... they could punt their translocators across the distance if told to do so........

RockIsland hehe. Easy one. Maybe my first?

Trainyard OMG..... that could be SO epic.

Well there ya go.... my best and most frustrating ideas for you. :-D As I already said, I think it'd be a lot easier to focus on smaller maps without foyers and such and them 4ways. There's many good ones IMO!

Some maps I already found but that my server didn't take:

CTF4-Lavaforme][, CTF4-Masteroid05, CTF4-Control, CTF-[4]-ThornsV2

 

[xts-sparky]

For BridgeXL, I saw other Bridge maps that were cut of the same cloth, just some modifications - I would look at them, if not to use them, then for ideas on how to do what you want.

Thought about referencing another bridge. I really wanted the base though. There are so many complex shapes which are intersecting one another. Bleh. @Dagger - make that happen

Oh, found a AndAction CTF4 map too, good stuff.

I saw that. Sounds like fun.

Looking at the map folder now for good candidates, let's see.... ah, I'm probably going to be tossing out insane ideas you shouldn't waste your time attempting, so beware! Haha.

Go right ahead! My skill level is just above noob right now, so it will be pretty easy to identify if I can or cannot do it once I see the idea

Avenger with a middle area that is just a cross walkway high up and death below! That would be awesome!

I'll look into this. I can't picture the map off the top of my head (I know it though. My brain just sucks)

BollWerk105 somehow is intriguing.

Tried it. Not sure how to make it happen. The bases are quite complex. I thought about taking out the lava semi-circle rooms but that's kind of what I love about that map. Ideas?

Burgerwars! Haha.

That actually should be pretty easy. Burgerwards is another simple map when it comes to the shapes of the brushes. Just a bunch of rectangles. Should be pretty easy to reorganize and drop in two more burger joints.

Fin! Oh yeah!

Doesn't ring a bell. I'll check it out.

GreatWall_XL would be great just as is! It would be a very different experience. Make the wall a square castle instead, maybe kill the tunnels, prob easier than most my suggestions. ;-)

I'll check it out.

IcyBeaches with just ONE base! Bridges for each team extending out over the water from the one tower. Thinking about it makes me shiver. :-D

This doesn't seem too complicated. I'll try it.

Morning, perhaps!

0_o Again, not ringing a bell. (You'll notice a trend with me, I am terrible with names)

Noonraid with just the first cross hallway out of the base as the middle going four ways.

Ahem, again. We'll see. HA.

Pyro with NO bridges, no spans, just lava between the bases! The bots could uhhhhhhh actually...... with FerBotz.... they could punt their translocators across the distance if told to do so........

I thought about Pyro, but wasn't sure if you wanted another map with floating bases. Your idea here sounds like suicide though I like it.

RockIsland hehe. Easy one. Maybe my first?

Doesn't sound familiar.

Trainyard OMG..... that could be SO epic.

Get out. Now. I hate this map. I don't know why I could never warm up to it. Just hate it.

Well there ya go.... my best and most frustrating ideas for you. :-D As I already said, I think it'd be a lot easier to focus on smaller maps without foyers and such and them 4ways. There's many good ones IMO!

I've enjoyed my last few days tinkering with maps. First my CTF one (which I sent to Dagger to give a once over, I think it's ready to play) and now Midway, which has been lots of fun. (In between, bridgeXL which just pissed me off)

Some maps I already found but that my server didn't take:

CTF4-Lavaforme][, CTF4-Masteroid05, CTF4-Control, CTF-[4]-ThornsV2

Any indication as to what the problem was with these? Error or log message?

Also, @Rip, do you use any messenger (Hangouts?) - For quick access?

 

[Rip]

I think some of the best maps that could be CTF4 for us are actually not the ones we'd usually play, unless sections were cut. Midway is a great one though. I say look at the "1on1" maps like Joust! You would have to create a middle area, though. But that could be fun, right? Hehe. I actually have several awesome "1on1" and "duel" name maps that are just great, and I'm going to put them up when I redo the map list. I'm going to cut a lot out of the maplist. Even great ones like Warrior.... don't really need to be on there right now. I want to put an emphasis on great, tight play, but also want the maps to pass a certain good looks test too heh!

I think the key for enjoyment in CTF4 is going to be tight play where you've got incentive to gather more flags rather than just make a long RJ back and forth constantly capping one or just collecting one for each RJ - if somebody is trying hard to win in that scenario and knows what they're doing, it can be unenjoyable for others and the winner. Not that I don't like that myself. But we already have those maps, and a map where you have to fight for every inch, could be different.

For BridgeXL, I saw other Bridge maps that were cut of the same cloth, just some modifications - I would look at them, if not to use them, then for ideas on how to do what you want.

Oh, found a AndAction CTF4 map too, good stuff.

Looking at the map folder now for good candidates, let's see.... ah, I'm probably going to be tossing out insane ideas you shouldn't waste your time attempting, so beware! Haha.

Avenger with a middle area that is just a cross walkway high up and death below! That would be awesome!

BollWerk105 somehow is intriguing.

Burgerwars! Haha.

Fin! Oh yeah!

GreatWall_XL would be great just as is! It would be a very different experience. Make the wall a square castle instead, maybe kill the tunnels, prob easier than most my suggestions. ;-)

IcyBeaches with just ONE base! Bridges for each team extending out over the water from the one tower. Thinking about it makes me shiver. :-D

Morning, perhaps!

Noonraid with just the first cross hallway out of the base as the middle going four ways.

Pyro with NO bridges, no spans, just lava between the bases! The bots could uhhhhhhh actually...... with FerBotz.... they could punt their translocators across the distance if told to do so........

RockIsland hehe. Easy one. Maybe my first?

Trainyard OMG..... that could be SO epic.

Well there ya go.... my best and most frustrating ideas for you. :-D As I already said, I think it'd be a lot easier to focus on smaller maps without foyers and such and them 4ways. There's many good ones IMO!

Some maps I already found but that my server didn't take:

CTF4-Lavaforme][, CTF4-Masteroid05, CTF4-Control, CTF-[4]-ThornsV2

There's a MeatGrinder name map I've been playing offline, try it and imagine it 4 ways haha. You could make the middle area another hazard like with a ceiling that crushes or leave it a safehaven..... with people coming at you from 4 sides heh.

 

[Rip]

Thought about referencing another bridge. I really wanted the base though. There are so many complex shapes which are intersecting one another. Bleh. @Dagger - make that happen

I saw that. Sounds like fun.

Go right ahead! My skill level is just above noob right now, so it will be pretty easy to identify if I can or cannot do it once I see the idea

I'll look into this. I can't picture the map off the top of my head (I know it though. My brain just sucks)

Tried it. Not sure how to make it happen. The bases are quite complex. I thought about taking out the lava semi-circle rooms but that's kind of what I love about that map. Ideas?

That actually should be pretty easy. Burgerwards is another simple map when it comes to the shapes of the brushes. Just a bunch of rectangles. Should be pretty easy to reorganize and drop in two more burger joints.

Doesn't ring a bell. I'll check it out.

I'll check it out.

This doesn't seem too complicated. I'll try it.

0_o Again, not ringing a bell. (You'll notice a trend with me, I am terrible with names)

Ahem, again. We'll see. HA.

I thought about Pyro, but wasn't sure if you wanted another map with floating bases. Your idea here sounds like suicide though I like it.
Doesn't sound familiar.

Get out. Now. I hate this map. I don't know why I could never warm up to it. Just hate it.

I've enjoyed my last few days tinkering with maps. First my CTF one (which I sent to Dagger to give a once over, I think it's ready to play) and now Midway, which has been lots of fun. (In between, bridgeXL which just pissed me off)

Any indication as to what the problem was with these? Error or log message?

Also, @Rip, do you use any messenger (Hangouts?) - For quick access?

But Trainyard! So epic! So want! Hahaha. I use gmail, so do Osk, Dagger and Maest. Bollwerk, yeah, I dunno. I'd make the door of each base between the ramps, cut the rest. The ramp exit could go around the middle, look down on the middle, not intersect in the middle of the middle. The whole scale of the map would be a lot smaller and in the middle you could leave the tower, smaller - put pickups there and people will come, they'll come anyway to fight with flags. And fall into lava and despair. You could have a ring of lava like a moat around the middle, against the wall (above which is the walkway that goes all around, formerly the side entrances) and lava rivers intersecting or spotted lava pools. :-D You could even put lava inside the flagroom up against the ramps around the flag but that would probably be too much haha. I'm not SKURRED of lava or train tracks like some. ;-) So the map would look like a circle with a circle on the outside of each corner, the middle area would be open with the ramp from the side entrance going around it.

Shiet, I just layed out an epic map didn't I? I wanttttt hehe.

 

[xts-sparky]

@Rip,
I looked at two of the maps the server rejected and thought I found the problem. Default gametype on one is CTF4 and the other MutliCTF. CTF4-Face default gametype is just CTF, meanwhile CTF4 jewel is CTF4... I was thinking you needed the CTF4.u and perhaps a multictf.u file in the server system folder to accept them, since Jewel has CTF4 as gametype I'm not sure why those were rejected...

CTF4 control was MultiCTF
CTF4 thornsv2 was CTF4
CTF4 Jewel was CTF4

Do you have files for these gametypes in the system folder? If so, have you tried Thornsv2 since putting the CTF file in there? If not, try again. Might need the multiCTF file as well. Or, we can change the default gametypes of all these and rename the map slightly, not sure if that would work though.

 

[Rip]

@Rip,
I looked at two of the maps the server rejected and thought I found the problem. Default gametype on one is CTF4 and the other MutliCTF. CTF4-Face default gametype is just CTF, meanwhile CTF4 jewel is CTF4... I was thinking you needed the CTF4.u and perhaps a multictf.u file in the server system folder to accept them, since Jewel has CTF4 as gametype I'm not sure why those were rejected...

CTF4 control was MultiCTF
CTF4 thornsv2 was CTF4
CTF4 Jewel was CTF4

Do you have files for these gametypes in the system folder? If so, have you tried Thornsv2 since putting the CTF file in there? If not, try again. Might need the multiCTF file as well. Or, we can change the default gametypes of all these and rename the map slightly, not sure if that would work though.

Dagger worked CTF4 into ADR by making it mandatory and letting you select ADR CTF4 as a gametype, it still requires CTF4, so that's how it works - next chance I get, I'll try putting the MultiCTF file on the server and seeing it it acceps the maps then. The error message was something particularly unhelpful, like bad or invalid map file. Shrug - the ThornsV2, there's multiple versions, I'm thinking of the one with CTF-[4] in the name. Server wasn't picking it up, so I renamed it to CTF4, not sure if that hurt anything. Thanks for looking into it! I'll let you know next time I try it.

 

[xts-sparky]

Dagger worked CTF4 into ADR by making it mandatory and letting you select ADR CTF4 as a gametype, it still requires CTF4, so that's how it works - next chance I get, I'll try putting the MultiCTF file on the server and seeing it it acceps the maps then. The error message was something particularly unhelpful, like bad or invalid map file. Shrug - the ThornsV2, there's multiple versions, I'm thinking of the one with CTF-[4] in the name. Server wasn't picking it up, so I renamed it to CTF4, not sure if that hurt anything. Thanks for looking into it! I'll let you know next time I try it.

If it does not work, try opening the map in UnrealEd 2, click View > Level Properties > Level Info and change default game type to either Class'Botpack.CTFGame' or just clear the field. Save the map (probably better to give a different file name slightly so there are no mismatches) and try again.


By the way, CTF4-BurgerWars is almost a thing. I have to admit though, I have introduced a chain that doesn't serve burgers. I may have to rename it SandwichWars or something. I used Chick-Fil-A because I had a funny idea for the textures. I guess I could have went with In-n-Out but it would have been less funny.

 

[xts-sparky]

@Rip, as has been pointed out, and again last night by Dagger, it would be really nice to indicate which flag you have (or even, who has which flag)

My preference would be right next to each team indicator on the right side. Most CTF servers have the name of the flag carrier shown below or next to the color like this. I assume it's SmartCTF.

 

[Rip]

@Rip, as has been pointed out, and again last night by Dagger, it would be really nice to indicate which flag you have (or even, who has which flag)

My preference would be right next to each team indicator on the right side. Most CTF servers have the name of the flag carrier shown below or next to the color like this. I assume it's SmartCTF.

Nah, I know which mutator does it though. I don't think it's going to work out of the box, don't know how much work it will take, but I acknowledge it's important and will get it in when I can. Thanks for hitting me up about it, and please feel free to keep reminding me until I get it in.

 

[Rip]

Nah, I know which mutator does it though. I don't think it's going to work out of the box, don't know how much work it will take, but I acknowledge it's important and will get it in when I can. Thanks for hitting me up about it, and please feel free to keep reminding me until I get it in.

You know, I want the ADR I'm building to be a version to be played, not just tested or a diversion from "real playing." I hope I can do enough with my next version to change people's view.....

And WHERE IS MAEST?!?! I e-mailed him my love and tears but he's spurned meeee.

 

[Rip]

@Rip, as has been pointed out, and again last night by Dagger, it would be really nice to indicate which flag you have (or even, who has which flag)

My preference would be right next to each team indicator on the right side. Most CTF servers have the name of the flag carrier shown below or next to the color like this. I assume it's SmartCTF.

Well, I've tried, Sparky. :-( I've spent dozens upon dozens of hours trying to get that to work with CTF4. I had it working perfectly offline after the first dozen. But, I simply cannot get it to work online. I've asked Dagger to look at it and he didn't have any ideas either, so. Yeah, HUD mutators are scary stuff. You would think it'd be simple. It's not. I've been comparing the code to the original, looking up online references, and looking at similar HUD mutators, like the TeamBeacon. No dice. And the thing is, it probably is something simple preventing it from working online. But what that is.....

Also, everyone seems to think it's SmartCTF that does that, but it's RExtended CTF/UT.