Cliff B Tweaks PC Gamers Over MIA Bulletstorm Demo

[r1esG0]

to continue with the offtopic:
I believe that waht could have happened, is taht they released the first gears of war game on pc to know if it was a good idea. I dont mean if it was a a good idea for pc gamers to have a gow game to play with, I mean a good idea in terms of having more money achived by selling more copies on the pc market, or at least, half of both reasons.

After they launched the title, they studied the results. Tehy can calculate what numbers of copies were sold, and how much people was playing the game, and, know what? the results, simply demonstrated that, developing gow 1 for pc, was an effort they made to actually give the game for free, because almost 99% of the pc users pirated the game.

After the results of that study they concluded, and please realise, or face the fact, that they do not want to release games for free anymore, so they are not developing gow2 for pc, never. Also, realise that this could not be an 100% decision made from epic. Maybe it could has come from microsoft. Same happened to halo trilogy. Im still waiting to play the third one on pc. I know its not coming for the same reasons.

At last, realise that they are making bulletstorm for pc too, and they could have mantained it console exclusive.

Now, on topic.
I really, really really dont understand the decision to not to make demo for pc.
It can not be related to piracy. I mean. Can you pirate a demo?
A demo, is an exercise of promotion. I believe they should promote the game on all platforms.

 

[Mozi]

Unless an editor gets included, doubt i'll bother with it.

Same. I'll just *obtain* it.

Even if it does have an editor, what are the chances that anyone can play your content easily. If you want to make BulletStorm maps to build your portfolio to get a job then that's a different story.

Gears PC was a shining example of this. It had an editor, which was nice, I enjoyed using it but at the end of the day, it was so bloody hard to get anyone to play the maps due to GFWL.

It was a great way to practice Unreal Engine 3 development but that's about it. Gears maps were not the same as UT maps where we as a community had a cult following of making maps and playing community maps.

That trend has slowed down, to be very honest at least in the Unreal community.

But look at the TF 2/Left 4 Dead communities. People make maps, they get played **** ton more than any Gears map and I'd assume more than a Bulletstorm custom map (if that is even possible) because that game and community support custom content at least on the PC end. The best maps and mods get highlighted by Valve for the community play.

When was the last time Unreal maps were highlighted for the community. To my knowledge CliffyB's ownage was one of the outlets to find the best of the best to play. And our forms along with Unreal Playground and Mapraider had some great features too.

But now, it's not there. Look at the Gears forums, there is some good content there, but is it promoted, can people easily access your maps without even getting the zip file? Again TF2, I have downloaded many maps just from the server browser alone like the good old UT days. Now with UT3 and with Gears if you don't have the map, tough luck, go find the original zip file to play it on the server.

I don't support this, but **** has turned out this way.

Now I am not saying don't make BulletStorm maps. If it is possible to do, I'll make some myself, it's a good way to learn new tech. But totally being jaded on the fact of editor or no editor to purchase or pirate sounds ludicrous to me.

I have bought plenty of PC games over the last year or two and many of them don't have editors, does it make a difference? Not really, the games are great and fun and that's what games are really about. Getting the tool set is a bonus but it should not be an expectation in my opinion. Perfect example, Transformers: War for Cybertron. A UE3 game, I had no expectations to get an editor, and I poked around and did not find one. Big ****ing deal... I played the game and had a blast. I bought COD: Blops PC, no editor (at least not yet) again had a good time, I did not expect to get an editor to decide to buy the game or not.

Point is, the expectation of getting a toolset for game in my opinion hinders your experience of playing other games that don't have or don't offer mod tools.

Yes it would be nice to get Bulletstorm editor, but I am not holding my breath for that. I already pre-orderd this game based on the fun factor alone.

Now if you still feel warranted that buying power or piracy are the paths to take based on having an editor or not is still up to you. Just ranting here...

About the PC demo, honestly I think it would be nice to get a PC demo too, but seriously I am too ****ing busy with work and stuff outside of work that I have personally have more things to think about than getting bent out of shape over a demo for a game.

 

[Kantham]

Now, on topic.
I really, really really dont understand the decision to not to make demo for pc.
It can not be related to piracy. I mean. Can you pirate a demo?

The way I see things is, Epic has gone dark on PC gaming since Mike Capps said "I think it's bull****" towards the Gears PC reviews. His bellowed, one-year late product has received fairly the same amount consoles had. It was fair, but it wasn't enough.


It has become apparent that this is the way it flows in the studio. You know, I've always been supportive to Epic but looking at how the things goes by, it becomes flagrant that they do not give a ****.

You don't come around your fans "in other news, they are upset, lol" that's ****ing moronic and unforgettable.

Gears PC was a shining example of this. It had an editor, which was nice, I enjoyed using it but at the end of the day, it was so bloody hard to get anyone to play the maps due to GFWL.

Not for me, the GOW PC ed saved it big mother ****ing time exclamation point.
I can't emphasize enough. And GFWL wasn't a problem, the problem was people who torrented the game: those with problems with custom content would never admit having a legit version when asked.

 

[Mozi]

Not for me, the GOW PC ed saved it big mother ****ing time exclamation point.
I can't emphasize enough. And GFWL wasn't a problem, the problem was people who torrented the game: those with problems with custom content would never admit having a legit version when asked.

I had legit copy but guess what, go to the custom games menu, and all the maps are labeled as, Untitled. Great! How the hell I am supposed to know ****ing map people are playing.

Anyways that's another issue for debate, but honestly Gears custom map support was not as robust as it could have been. And I am very very curious to see if indeed Bulletstorm has an editor, how much has that process improved to allow users to play your custom maps without getting cockblocked.

Continue lamenting about the demo everyone...

 

[Cr4zyB4st4rd]

Even if it does have an editor, what are the chances that anyone can play your content easily. If you want to make BulletStorm maps to build your portfolio to get a job then that's a different story.

That's one of the thing's id like to do. Mapping in UDK only goes so far, as I suck with my own assets. I could do a HOLP, but same thing goes that hardly anyone will play it.

Bulletstorm should offer a new playerbase, assets and the latest version of the engine to play about with. UT3 is the best I have otherwise

 

[Capt.Toilet]

Infact, if a game wasn't half-assed, tons of people would buy it.

Why do I have a hard time believing that.

 

[Trustingsoup]

Yeah. people pay thousands on their hardware. Im sure they all also pirate games. Infact, if a game wasn't half-assed, tons of people would buy it.

Same. I'll just *obtain* it.

But they might just "pirate" it.

How about not "obtaining" it and not buying?
Poor Sales+Piracy= more DRM
Poor Sales+ little or no Piracy= Maybe we should make a better game.

 

[[GU]elmur_fud]

I just had Taco Bell so I have enough brain food to decipher what this means

The dick = Clifford
The testicles = pc gamers

Clifford got his start on the pc and should never EVER forget his roots, otherwise we may just completely forget about him entirely. Ahyuck

Was it really that difficult to decifer or are u being sarcastic about my facetiousness?

Aaaand creating a topic about on it on Epic will get your thread not locked, but deleted.

Seriously, Flak?

Yeah sorry about that, my commenting in it did kinda bump it up to the top of the board. It couldn't have been my comment itself as all I said was something like, 'it wouldn't be a big deal if they were taking the time to add a sandbox UT style multiplayer mode for PC but fat chance of that'. Not 5 minutes after my comment it was gone.

In other news, some guys are grumpy about pirates.

Pirates make me grumpy yes... but I'm a ninja.

All lame jokes aside I don't pirate games because I wish to promote PC games and I don't usually have the money to buy them either. So no demo will most likely mean I won't buy it till I see it used.

 

[Sjosz]

The best part of all of this is that people take every single thing these people at Epic do (as well as other companies) as some sort of personal offense against them, which is entirely unreasonable.
Continuing this drastically illogical logic, we then cleverly find a way to get back at Epic as a company, which employs 100 or so hard-working individuals, by pirating the game when it comes out, because that will show them who they are messing with!
Not only that, we then continue, using as much unneeded profanity as we can reasonably put into a post, that Epic is invalidly arguing that piracy is driving them to not provide a demo.
The last strategic masterful use of tactics emerges when having to deal with people who are against this view, they get whisked off with a general sweeping statement involving these people being against piracy and a general lack of mental faculties, regardless of direct relevance or truthfulness.


Dear Kantham, please take 5 minutes to read back to yourself what you post and consider whether you should continue posting in your current enraged state. Civil discourse is hard, but it's a lot easier on the eyes, and your fellow forumers thank you for it.

 

[Capt.Toilet]

Was it really that difficult to decifer or are u being sarcastic about my facetiousness?

Nah I was just bored at work + a little gassy from that taco.

 

[Kyllian]

Im still waiting to play the third one on pc. I know its not coming for the same reasons.

The thing is devs tend to think PC players pirate games just to get them for free. Usually it's because the dev either half-assed the port or did something else to screw over PC players
Halo 2 for example and the Vista requirement for example

But look at the TF 2/Left 4 Dead communities. People make maps, they get played **** ton more than any Gears map and I'd assume more than a Bulletstorm custom map (if that is even possible) because that game and community support custom content at least on the PC end. The best maps and mods get highlighted by Valve for the community play.

Don't forget UT and UT2004. There's probably a few terabytes worth of maps, mods, muts, etc for both(let's not forget both are still being played, even with UT being 12 years old)

Those 4 games alone are prime examples of what happens when you support the PC community
Show PC gamers you give a damn and they'll reciprocate

 

[Kantham]

Dear Kantham, please take 5 minutes to read back to yourself what you post..

Done..

.. and consider whether you should continue posting in your current enraged state. Civil discourse is hard, but it's a lot easier on the eyes, and your fellow forumers thank you for it.

I voiced my opinion in a civil manner.

 

[hal]

Guys - knock off the piracy talk.

I think it will be interesting to see if Bulletstorm ships with an editor simply because of the existence of UDK. I guess we'll find out if Epic considers it to be a good return on investment to support that one as a bonus to Bulletstorm PC users or if it will simply be viewed as "muddying the waters" of the UEd showcase.

 

[Kantham]

People seem optimistic about an editor, even after this statement and after Epic ignored the tweets when people asked if there was going to be one.

On the bright side (I guess) threads over Epic's asking those questions are not getting deleted, or locked.

 

[DarkEmperor]

to continue with the offtopic:
I believe that waht could have happened, is taht [...]

Now, on topic.
I really, really really dont understand the decision to not to make demo for pc.
It can not be related to piracy. I mean. Can you pirate a demo?
A demo, is an exercise of promotion. I believe they should promote the game on all platforms.

And yet it is related to piracy. Your "on topic" observation gives answer to your "off topic" assumption.
If there was a demo for GoW people wouldn't download the full game to see how it plays. Just as you say "A demo, is an exercise of promotion." And the demo is a major tradition that holds for 15 years and I cannot think of anyone not wanting it. So the number of pirated copies represent the need of the consumers for a demo and not necessarily the piracy of the game itself. Of course CliffyB and his gang interpretate it the way they want as an excuse for the strategical re-positioning of their company in the industry. In reality it turned out that GoW was so bad for PC standards and the gameplay was so shallow and console orientated that no one wanted to buy it. So it really is their fault and not the consumers'. On the other side, Valves or Blizzards exceptional products and their dedication to quality on all platforms and the PC pays out with strong selling numbers for the PC. Diablo, Starcraft/Warcraft, WoW, HL2, L4D, TF2, DoD, CS, to name a few, or from other devs like BF1942, Sims, Civ4, Doom3, Crysis etc...

 

[Sjosz]

I would certainly not complain if an editor came with BulletStorm, heck, I might even have to pick up a second copy for it if it's the case.

 

[Plumb_Drumb]

I've more than lost whatever respect I had for CliffyB (you can never deny that name! no matter how much you want to reinvent yourself to the consolers!)

He must be out of his mind; Consolers aren't savvy enough to know how to spell Blonzoski, or afford gargantuan PC's so they can pirate games.

Keep it simple stupid! You don't have some cool Japanese last name that people can refer to you by!

 

[Beelzebud (Satanas)]

I guess he has completely forgotten that it was the PC player base that got Epic where they are. That's okay. I don't plan on giving them money again, as I did on every title up to UT3. He can be a douchebag all he wants.

 

[MrMaddog]

If you PC gamers (myself included) don't like the attitude Epic or other companies have towards you, just take the $60 you would put towards some shoddy console port and buy three indy games that are fun to play instead. At least you'll support people who do give a crap about the PC...

Problem solved...

 

[q_mi_4_3]

People seem optimistic about an editor, even after this statement and after Epic ignored the tweets when people asked if there was going to be one.

People still seem to want to believe in Epic, even if there really isn't any good reason to. Guess they'll always have their fans, even if they only do PC ports.

If you PC gamers (myself included) don't like the attitude Epic or other companies have towards you, just take the $60 you would put towards some shoddy console port and buy three indy games that are fun to play instead. At least you'll support people who do give a crap about the PC...

Problem solved...

Turning back on the problem is not solving it. Like any misconception, it has to be brought out and any fallacies of the argument must be confronted. The problem is that even if we support good PC devs, it still wouldn't stop Epic from saying all the BS about PC gaming and treating PC gamers like an afterthought. They are the makers of the Unreal Engine, what they say and what they do will have an effect on the overall industry . But unfortuanately, there are some people that are just not far sighted enough to see the consequences, and still support Epic no matter what kind of weak PC ports they release, simply for immediate gratifaction.

Piracy against Epic is not the answer, but at the same time we need to look for a way to demonstrate that denouncing the PC platform will hurt their profit margin, but short of some magical way that PC gamers can do to sabotage the console market I don't really see how it can be done. But nonetheless, Epic has still remained an obstacle to proper PC gaming (except for making UDK), and PC gaming will need to overcome it one way or an other before it can rise again.