Is it just me or does the goliath = death trap?

[KillStreak]

In UT2k4 the goliath tank was a beast, it only feared mantas and raptors. piloting that vehicle was incredibly fun, you would score double/multi kills left and right with it.

In UT3 Im lucky to even get a single kill with it before dying! It seems the enemy keeps tabs on its respawn timer and they are able to destroy in several seconds. Against other vehicles the tank just gets even more useless, almost every vehicle is equiped to deal with it.

what am i doing wrong in this thing?

 

[In73gr4L]

Well some of those issues you brought up aren't confined to the Goliath. I mean you'll have people who go around damaging all sorts of vehicles like the Paladin and Hellbender till they're at ~10% health and then leave them there. The Goliath can be quite effective and I say this because I've seen people doing extensive amounts of damage with them. I think the key is to not rush out into the open as soon as you get into the Goliath. You need to wait for the right moment to attack and then you'll be able to pin your opponenents down.

 

[hyrulian]

I do agree though, the Goliath in UT2k4 seemed much more powerful/stronger than the one in UT3.

 

[NoTomorrow]

To use the Goliath in the best possible way, you need team support. Someone to heal you, and someone with avrils ready to take out any mantas. And as In73gr4L said, timing is important.

 

[Dark Pulse]

No, it's not a death trap at all.

Goliath
Destroyed 313
Main Cannon K:2963 D:290 S:5
Machinegun K:6 D:6 S:0
Time spent in 16h 36m 6s

Those are my own personal stats, from my own stat page.

 

[cosmix]

In UT2k4 the goliath tank was a beast, it only feared mantas and raptors. piloting that vehicle was incredibly fun, you would score double/multi kills left and right with it.

Maybe that's the point because they made some changes.

 

[KillStreak]

Maybe that's the point because they made some changes.

thats a bad point, it wasnt OP'd at all.

every base in UT2k4 spawned with atleast 1 raptor and 1 manta, if you were getting spawn killed you could take it out. Almost every node in UT2k4 spawned with a manta as well.

In UT3, almost every vehicle has the advantage over the goliath. In 1v1 situations, and these are just the Axon vehicles:

The raptor can kill it with absolutely no worries.

The scorpion can 1 shot it via suicide bombing.

the manta can out manuaver its turret.

the SPMA can kill it before it even knows whats up.

There is very little risk involved for any of these vehicles, the tank is at a complete disadvantage in almost all cases.

 

[Capt.Toilet]

Any Axon vehicle is a death trap. Go over to the dark side and use Necris

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

UT2k4's vehicles were badly balanced. UT3's are even worse.

They all still feel very weak...except the Manta which is overpowered.

 

[oldkawman]

I do agree though, the Goliath in UT2k4 seemed much more powerful/stronger than the one in UT3.

The main gun is quite powerful, but the tank is very slow and has poor maneuverability. The turret rotation is also very slow and cannot keep up with a fast maneuvering manta. It's an easy target for scorpion explosion and viper self destruct. And yes, you can jump down on top of it from a building in Downtown and kill it rapidly with your link. You can also sneak up to it and point blank with flak will kill it pretty quickly. It's definitely not the tank from UT2K4 at all.

Tactics, timing, skill, and teamwork are very important to make good use of the tank before it is destroyed.

All UT3 vehicles can be and are coffins at times. They all require a great deal of experience and skill to master. They also all usually have very short lives during the game. An experienced player can pretty much take down any vehicle under the correct circumstances. Weapons are very powerful in UT3, and even with reduced damage to vehicles can usually make quick work of any of them.

UT2k4's vehicles were badly balanced. UT3's are even worse.

They all still feel very weak...except the Manta which is overpowered.

That was a very early argument that died off once players discovered how well the Avril worked and took the time to grab one. Now the latest argument is that the scorpion is too powerful, the self destruct has too large a splash radius. Which it does of course. You do not even have to hit anything, just be sorta close to take 400-600 damage on a tank, paladin, or groups of vehicles. You can take out 2-3 scorpions and benders in a single move. The UT2K4 vehicles were much easier to use, much easier to get kills with, and had much longer lives.

 

[Dark Pulse]

thats a bad point, it wasnt OP'd at all.

every base in UT2k4 spawned with atleast 1 raptor and 1 manta, if you were getting spawn killed you could take it out. Almost every node in UT2k4 spawned with a manta as well.

In UT3, almost every vehicle has the advantage over the goliath. In 1v1 situations, and these are just the Axon vehicles:

The raptor can kill it with absolutely no worries.

The scorpion can 1 shot it via suicide bombing.

the manta can out manuaver its turret.

the SPMA can kill it before it even knows whats up.

There is very little risk involved for any of these vehicles, the tank is at a complete disadvantage in almost all cases.

1. Raptor vs. Goliath: It can, but that's supposed to be a weakness. To be fair, Raptors are supposed to be Anti-Tank; usually when one of them shows up unless I can one-shot it, I get out and start using my Stinger. Usually the Raptor pilot is so engrossed in shooting your Goliath that he won't notice he's getting chewed up, and if he does, he'll usually fly away pretty quickly, leaving you with a still-working Tank and an ability to get into better position and/or heal it.
2. Scorpion vs. Goliath: No, it can't. A bullseye from either the Scorpion or Viper does EXACTLY 600 damage - no more, no less. A Goliath has 800 armor. It's perfectly conceivable that they can bullseye it and shove two rockets or flak salvos at it before they land to kill it, but unless the Goliath is under 600 armor, they can't one-shot it no matter what, unless they are under the influence of a Damage Amp. (Which, truth be told, I'm not sure if that'd do double damage. But that's the only way it'd one-shot it.)
3. Manta vs. Goliath: It can, and the Manta should be the other main anti-tank weapon. They can still be beat; the trick is to get yourself into a confined space where you can splash the Manta. In a wide-open area, though, you're rather ****ed, because unless you see it coming, it can out-circle you. Your best option is to get out and AVRiL it as it circles you, or if you don't have AVRiLs, get out once it gets low and start Stingering the Manta. And be prepared to dodge a whole hell of a lot.
4. SPMA vs. Goliath: The SPMA is usually on very few maps, so it's not usually a concern. Also, a smart Goliath driver will know there's a SPMA on the map, where they tend to deploy, and general arcs of their shots. The real good ones move as soon as they hear the scream of a bombardment incoming. Also, it usually will only have enough damage to kill it if most or all of the shells hit it - a few will only do a couple hundred damage. Again, a Damage Amp would increase the damage to very significant levels of hurt, however.

The Goliath has its strengths and weaknesses, but all vehicles do. Being a good Goliath user means knowing these and exploiting them as much as possible. I don't get killed very easily in a Goliath.

 

[Grobut]

Bone up on real tactics used in real tank warfare (thouse pertaining to a heavy tank, that is), not all of it is applicable, but most of it is very usefull, i had to learn stuff like this to play Red Orchestra and not die every 2 minutes, and alot of it works in UT aswell, atleast in the sense that i live alot longer.

Here's some quick tips i find helps:

• View the tanks as a "team player" that has a role to play, its the vehicular "sniper" on your team, not an assault vehical ment to rush for the flag or node, hang back a bit and help your team by sniping the incomming enemies, who will either be blown apart by you, or have to diverge some of their resources to knocking you out, either way, you buy your team time to capture flags or nodes, (this doesen't mean you should just park at spawn and do nothing, you should be where you are needed, but just hang back a bit and snipe).
• Reveal as little of your tank as possible, if you can, find a "hull down position", so only the turret can be seen from the enemy's position, or at the very least make yourself a smaller target by using any cover you can find, and don't park with your broad side to the enemy, the front or back are smaller targets than your side.
• Just like a sniper, try to change location from time to time, if the guys you just blew away respawn knowing exactly where you will be, thats a bad thing, keep them on their toes.
• The MG makes for a better anti-air weapon than your main cannon.
• The human eye tracks sideways movement better than forwards/backwards movement, try not to change your position by driving with your side exposed to the enemies view, if you can, drive behind a building, or with a hill blocking the view.

I can't think of more right now, maybe later, but try thease things if you aren't allready, it'll help.

 

[JohnDoe641]

pfffffff stupid cars. I just shock tape and flak everything and they explode because of the awesome.

 

[N1ghtmare]

Well then what is your preferred mode of transportation JD?

 

[JohnDoe641]

I use the floating skateboard and hop off it when I want to pew pew people.

 

[Kyllian]

the manta can out manuaver its turret.

That's one thing that's been irking me about the UT3 tank, the turret does not increase or decrease in rotation speed as you rotate the main body
It's just like standing on the center of a rotating platform and turning with or against it, move with and you turn faster than the platform, turn against and you move slower

 

[oldkawman]

1. Scorpion vs. Goliath: No, it can't. A bullseye from either the Scorpion or Viper does EXACTLY 600 damage - no more, no less. A Goliath has 800 armor. It's perfectly conceivable that they can bullseye it and shove two rockets or flak salvos at it before they land to kill it, but unless the Goliath is under 600 armor, they can't one-shot it no matter what, unless they are under the influence of a Damage Amp. (Which, truth be told, I'm not sure if that'd do double damage. But that's the only way it'd one-shot it.).

1. 
   
   
   Assuming the tank was 100% healed at the time, the Avril is then used for the kill. Just have the Avril as your weapon before you enter the scorpion or viper. Then while your still in the air after ejecting, lock and fire --> boom. Same story with the Paladin or the SPMA. I have probably been killed at least 1000 times exactly like this.

 

[Anisotonic]

You immediately reminded me of the guy in the Sherman, in CoH...

"This tin can's a death trap!!"

He's mostly right.

 

[N1ghtmare]

I use the floating skateboard and hop off it when I want to pew pew people.

Did it come free with the Delorean?

 

[Bersy]

Part of the ****tiness of the vehicles in UT3 is the fact that you can't zoom out. I used the increased field of view to be able to easily see when I was being flanked or snuck up from behind in the tank. Also now the Raptor seems to be able to kill you in about 5 seconds with rapid fire missiles, whereas in 2k4 it was more effective to use primary fire, which still took about 10 seconds. The vehicle balance was pretty much perfect in 2k4, the only vehicle that has improved marginally is the scorp, every other vehicle is out of whack now.