Should Epic repeat the 2k3 -> 2k4 history again to save UT3?

[FikusErectus]

No more Unreal? Bull****. along with the fact that there's another upcoming patch for the game, if Epic was done with UT.

There's still going to be months worth of dealings with UT3 at the very least, simply with a new patch and the MSUC being under way. A new Unreal is a long ways ahead, but don't think it won't happen.

The servers are empty. Hardly anyone plays. If Epic had this game done and working for the release then it might have been different. Word of mouth and too many bad experiences have killed this game. There is a major bug that stops custom maps from downloading correctly. Custom maps are what made UT and UT 2004 popular. Well that nice feature doesn't work in UT III. How many more months is Epic going to wait to fix this? The longer they wait the less people will play.

Not to mention the censorship going on at Epic's website. How can they fix these problems if they won't let the community talk about them? Epic is doing a really nice job of killing off this franchise.

 

[Vitamin-Carrot]

The servers are empty. Hardly anyone plays. If Epic had this game done and working for the release then it might have been different. Word of mouth and too many bad experiences have killed this game. There is a major bug that stops custom maps from downloading correctly. Custom maps are what made UT and UT 2004 popular. Well that nice feature doesn't work in UT III. How many more months is Epic going to wait to fix this? The longer they wait the less people will play.

Not to mention the censorship going on at Epic's website. How can they fix these problems if they won't let the community talk about them? Epic is doing a really nice job of killing off this franchise.

Is there like a clone factory around here or something ...

Cry Babies R Us must be its name

 

[FikusErectus]

No one plays. The servers are empty. I have seen PS3 owners complain. The 360 isn't going to save this franchise.

 

[Trynant]

On the other hand consoles are pretty fun to play....

This is of course what they need to do. But it will never happen. They are a console developer now.

They have even stated that Unreal Engine IV will be mostly for consoles.

It is polite to provide links back up the "facts". I suppose you are referencing this?

Version 4 will exclusively target the next console generation, Microsoft's successor for the Xbox 360, Sony's successor for the Playstation 3 - and if Nintendo ships a machine with similar hardware specs, then that also. PCs will follow after that.

If anything this is more a speculation that the next-gen PC platform will follow after the next-gen console platforms. Not the "Epic is abandoning PCs" I'm hearing from you.

Don't expect another PC version of UT anytime soon.

I suppose you're right. Epic is busy with UT3; a UT4 is way down the road. But if you mean to imply that Epic has given up entirely on the PC...

How many more months is Epic going to wait to fix this?

Waiting? As if they aren't working on patch 1.3 to be released? Yes it's taking a while, but don't act as if it's not been in the works.

Not to mention the censorship going on at Epic's website. How can they fix these problems if they won't let the community talk about them?

Keep it civil and you've always got our ear.

....

Epic is doing a really nice job of killing off this franchise.

That's not very civil.

 

[B4NE]

I actually think the 360 version might be the franchise's saving grace...They did a really good job porting it over. Servers are full, clans are active...I see UT3 holding its popularity on the 360 for quite a while. I always played both, PC and Console Shooters, say what you want about consoles but the old Unreal Championship community has been waiting for another Unreal to hit xbox for years now and so far it seems that everyone's pretty pleased with the release. There are a few issues that need to be patched though.

At the very least, UT3 on 360 can keep things afloat until they release something the PC community will pick back up on...Also, I thought I read somewhere that Midway was signed up for 2 Unreal titles so wether its an updated UT3/4 or another UT down the road, they've got to release another one, right?

 

[FikusErectus]

This is a slow steady death march. If the UT III was released when it was actually done then maybe more people would be playing. Well don't worry ladies. UT IV will be out in a few years for the Wii, 360, and PS3. I'm sure that Wii controller will work great.

If anyone thinks I'm wrong then why are the servers so empty? People bought the game and tried it. Didn't like the issues they encountered and moved on. Do you think a year from now all of a sudden people will start playing UT III? Epic had their chance back in late 2007. They blew it.

Oh they are coming out with a 1.3 patch. How nice of them to fix these issues almost 8 months after the release.

 

[FikusErectus]

At the very least, UT3 on 360 can keep things afloat until they release something the PC community will pick back up on...Also, I thought I read somewhere that Midway was signed up for 2 Unreal titles so wether its an updated UT3/4 or another UT down the road, they've got to release another one, right?

Why would they? They released UT 2004 to fix the Ut 2003 mess, but that was back when the PC was the video game king. For Epic it is all about the console.

 

[B4NE]

Unreal Tournament was out on Dreamcast and I think even Playstation....

They released Unreal Championship on Xbox after UT2003 but before UT2004....

Ya never know. Unreal's always had atleast a small presence on consoles, I don't really see why they're catching so much flak for it now. I'm still hoping for a fixed PC release. I'll be playing UT3 on 360 until the next Unreal comes out wether it be a few months or a few years. I still jump on the PC version every now and then to see if anyone's playing, hell I'd still play that if there was ever anyone to play with anymore...lol

 

[Trynant]

This is a slow steady death march. If the UT III was released when it was actually done then maybe more people would be playing.

More or less true. If Epic had spent a little more time tweaking the game probably would have been better received, resulting in more players. Also,

Well don't worry ladies. UT IV will be out in a few years for the Wii, 360, and PS3. I'm sure that Wii controller will work great.

While feeling a small urge to rebuke this unfounded, crass statement; I find the urge to just do this.

If anyone thinks I'm wrong then why are the servers so empty? People bought the game and tried it. Didn't like the issues they encountered and moved on. Do you think a year from now all of a sudden people will start playing UT III? Epic had their chance back in late 2007. They blew it.

I doubt anyone is disagreeing with you in thinking "game is dead or dying, there are issues w/game, etc.," but rather they disagree in thinking that Epic is a console company that won't touch the PC ever again.

Oh they are coming out with a 1.3 patch. How nice of them to fix these issues almost 8 months after the release.

It is nice of them to still be working on a game almost 8 months after the release. It's kind of embarrassing how much of the work that went and is still going into the game is being shot down by all too many in the community.

What are you trying to accomplish by saying things like "Epic is a console company and does not care about the PC" and "UT3 is dead, Epic failed"? To get even less people to play the game? To encourage Epic to give up work on their product? I fail to see where you're going with these doomsday proclamations.

 

[Anuban]

Seems to me that the 360 gamers are doing a good job of bringing some new life into the game ... at least atm. I went to three gaming stores today (one game crazy, one EBgames, and one Gamestop) and all three had sold out of UT3 for the 360 ... it could be because of the Gears 2 video but still. And the 360 gamers are really loving this game for the most part. There are not nearly as many complaints from them as there were from the PS3 and PC gamers.

Why would they? They released UT 2004 to fix the Ut 2003 mess, but that was back when the PC was the video game king. For Epic it is all about the console.

I think it is all about the engine and having games that run on all the graphically intense platforms. I think they have evolved beyond being a proponent of merely one gaming platform because they want all the money they can get as well as the prestige of having some of the best games on any platform using your engine as its foundation.

 

[MonsOlympus]

I actually think the 360 version might be the franchise's saving grace...They did a really good job porting it over. Servers are full, clans are active...I see UT3 holding its popularity on the 360 for quite a while. I always played both, PC and Console Shooters, say what you want about consoles but the old Unreal Championship community has been waiting for another Unreal to hit xbox for years now and so far it seems that everyone's pretty pleased with the release. There are a few issues that need to be patched though.

At the very least, UT3 on 360 can keep things afloat until they release something the PC community will pick back up on...Also, I thought I read somewhere that Midway was signed up for 2 Unreal titles so wether its an updated UT3/4 or another UT down the road, they've got to release another one, right?

Well the 360 version can certainly help the franchise pull in some more money, not that UT3 has sold badly on PS3 and PC combined either but a 360 versions popularity is only going to pull dual gamers away from the PC version even more.

Im glad Anuban went into details on the differences between them in the 360 thread. Very good post on the topic

I wonder why there was less complaints though, I wouldnt put it solely on them being different gamers but perhaps they are just happy they got a UT game finally. Maybe only time will tell, it didnt take long for people to find exploits in gears of war so I think its only a matter of time before some of these are found by 360 gamers online in UT3.

The thing of it is, Ive heard people say they did a good job porting it over and that it suits the platform more. Perhaps thats why its not copping as much flak then it did on the other two platforms, its not like Epic has used the live system for other games right?

 

[Trynant]

Or is it one hyphenated word?

I wonder why there was less complaints though, I wouldnt put it solely on them being different gamers but perhaps they are just happy they got a UT game finally. Maybe only time will tell, it didnt take long for people to find exploits in gears of war so I think its only a matter of time before some of these are found by 360 gamers online in UT3.

Two words: split screen

Seriously, playing with friends without having to host a server is a huge boon for any multiplayer game.

IMO the biggest "flaw" in UT3 is that it's hard to find a decent server to play on. If that's not a problem, then I could definitely see UT3 getting more acclaim.

 

[WHIPperSNAPper]

Why would they? They released UT 2004 to fix the Ut 2003 mess, but that was back when the PC was the video game king. For Epic it is all about the console.

I can see Epic doing another UT for the PC simply because it is consistent with their developing the Unreal Engine which I can't imagine they'd want to give up and one of Epic's major domo's might also think that they could make a good UT-for-the-PC next time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another UT even if it isn't for another six years. Occasionally an older game gets partially resurrected (see Fallout). At this point though, with much of the UT fan base long gone or having moved on from gaming in life (while failing to build a new, younger fan base), it would essentially be a brand new game that would start without a fan base and would have to be marketed that way.

I just wonder if they really learned anything from the UT3 debacle and whether they'll actually get it right next time. I wouldn't hold my breath. UT3's failure was based on a certain type of design philosophy that was very different from what they had with the original UT and UT 2004. It might be best described as the difference between making games for computer literate mature adults and in making games for children. (That's not an exact analogy, but it kinda summarizes the way I see it. You might also say that it's the difference between giving people a Lexus and giving people a Kia.)

 

[Crotale]

I just wonder if they really learned anything from the UT3 debacle and whether they'll actually get it right next time. I wouldn't hold my breath. UT3's failure was based on a certain type of design philosophy that was very different from what they had with the original UT and UT 2004. It might be best described as the difference between making games for computer literate mature adults and in making games for children. (That's not an exact analogy, but it kinda summarizes the way I see it. You might also say that it's the difference between giving people a Lexus and giving people a Kia.)

Good post, but I disagree on the analogy. In my book, it is more akin to giving a factory-assembled Corvette owner a racing version. It's a Corvette, but it does not have power windows/doorlocks, not does it have the kickass sound system or leather appointments. But it does go faster and handles better, well, at least on dry pavement.

 

[B4NE]

I wonder why there was less complaints though, I wouldnt put it solely on them being different gamers but perhaps they are just happy they got a UT game finally. Maybe only time will tell, it didnt take long for people to find exploits in gears of war so I think its only a matter of time before some of these are found by 360 gamers online in UT3.

The thing of it is, Ive heard people say they did a good job porting it over and that it suits the platform more. Perhaps thats why its not copping as much flak then it did on the other two platforms, its not like Epic has used the live system for other games right?

The reason there are less complaints from the 360 gamers is for the shear fact that there is a lack of comparison... The last actual UT style game was Unreal Championship on the Xbox. After that was Unreal II and Unreal Championship 2, both completely different directions in the Unreal franchise. The 360 gamers truely are just happy to get an Unreal Tournament game. It may be tweaked a little better for the 360 versus the PS3 but alot of the same issues that were a problem on PS3 are still a problem on 360 as well. As long as they patch it soon and gradually release a few maps and mods as downloadable content they'll be happy for a long time to come. Most of the 360 players haven't experienced the user created content or any of that stuff so they really don't know what they're missing and for the ones that have, it just goes back to the fact that they're happy to have an Unreal on 360. I personally own UT3 on PC, PS3, and 360 and played all three and IMO the 360 version turned out the best (and that's a hard thing to say given that I'd much rather be using a mouse and keyboard).

....Plus, UT3 came around at a very good time on 360, people are sick of the war-style FPS' and the Halo's. Especially the clans, they needed a new game to move onto. As long as they patch it somewhat quickly, I don't even think Gears 2 will kill the game.

 

[unbecoming]

I just wonder if they really learned anything from the UT3 debacle and whether they'll actually get it right next time. I wouldn't hold my breath. UT3's failure was based on a certain type of design philosophy that was very different from what they had with the original UT and UT 2004. It might be best described as the difference between making games for computer literate mature adults and in making games for children. (That's not an exact analogy, but it kinda summarizes the way I see it. You might also say that it's the difference between giving people a Lexus and giving people a Kia.)

QFT.

Go say this on Epic's boards and see how u get treated.Certain individuals acts like kids themselves so it's no surprise the game is geared towards...guess who?

They ripped out most of the challenging parts and someone forgot to tell them those key components fuel the fun and longevity trying to master it.Don't give me a watered down game that anyone can get great at in a month and bored with after 3.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

They ripped out most of the challenging parts and someone forgot to tell them those key components fuel the fun and longevity trying to master it.Don't give me a watered down game that anyone can get great at in a month and bored with after 3.

Like what?

I guess you are talking about UT200X, which most true UT fans did not like. If UT3 had one failure it was that it failed to bring those people back in.

The crap in UT200X is what mostly drove people away from the series.

 

[Trynant]

Because I don't have UT3 with me atm,

QFT.

Go say this on Epic's boards and see how u get treated.

I don't know about you but going on a game's main forum, calling the game a debacle and that it's for kids sounds like grounds enough for poor treatment.

Certain individuals acts like kids themselves so it's no surprise the game is geared towards...guess who?

Yes. UT3 is a kid's game. With lovely happy bunnies frolicking in the sunshine and singing merry songs of rainbows and gumdrop candy.

They ripped out most of the challenging parts and someone forgot to tell them those key components fuel the fun and longevity trying to master it.Don't give me a watered down game that anyone can get great at in a month and bored with after 3.

So you're saying that you don't want a game to be accessible? That dodge-jumping is challenging? And because of the absence of "the challenging parts" (which didn't stop the original UT from being great), this game immediately sucks? What fuels the fun of a game is if it's easy to pick up and play. The longevity comes from the ability to mutate the game and the capability of being rewarded for time and effort put into playing the game (i.e. getting better the more you play).

UT3 has flaws, but I don't think those flaws are related to any of your problems with it.

 

[MonsOlympus]

Well its certainly interesting hearing people who own more than 1 version or even more than 1 console version of the game. Its wierd how timing can be important, I guess all the other games like cod4 or halo 3 have settled on 360 now so that could be a contributing factor, people are just alittle bored of what they have and are looking around more. Where when UT3 was released on PC there was a heap of competition, Im sure the PS3 version had its fair share as well.

Thing of it is now Im thinking back to comments Epic made about knowing how to make good PC games. Now Im not going to say they dont know how to but they havent seemed to prove that much of late especially considering the praise Gears got and now UT3 on 360 is getting. I think most people agree on the fact UT3 was released to early on PC, but as people have been saying the 360 version isnt perfect either.

Its just wierd for me to hear someone say the 360 version turned out best, I mean sure its perhaps alittle more polished but its the same game. In saying that maybe theres something to peoples perceptions, like say a game like oblivion for eg scored higher on 360 but like UT3 was essentially the same game. I think it goes to show different platforms do require alittle more in terms of specific support, thats not to say multi-platform isnt the future but maybe developers should look less at the bottom line and more at filling out a version for that platform entirely before releasing.

I understand there could be issues with cross-platform play but with UT3 thats entirely a non issue. So while 360 had splitscreen it still doesnt have the ability to play against PC players, neither does the PS3 version for that matter so as long as companies are keeping us all locked down I wont be a console shooter fan in a hurry and games may suffer on certain platforms because of it.

I still think Epic was in a prime position to get its own online system going but again locking online systems to consoles like what happens means that one system might take priority over another. UE3 is so big it makes perfect sense to me that Epic could have included a steam like system as part of a license but alas, it didnt happen so now games like Gears, Mass Effect, UT3, etc are spread across many different systems on PC with some UE3 games even being available on steam.

 

[unbecoming]

stopping by to check on things

It's not the community's fault UT3 flopped, it's Epics/Midways fault for not making sure they made a product people wanted or expected. Don't blame the haters, blame the lack of praise. Nobody heard of the game? No wonder with this lack of marketing and the fumbling release. UT is and will always be a niche product so it's very important to make sure the target group is happy.

Really, you can't just throw a game out and hope people will like it. And all these excuses people come up with, "it's the whining that killed it", "have to compete with other titles", "the game is excellent but people are to dumb to see it" etc are just empty and not in touch with reality.

Agreed.If the game was fun and worked well for most most would be playing.It's rocket science for some I know.

Ironic that Crysis has had its support pulled while UT3 support, even if it's by a skeleton crew due to 360 Development/GOW2/Willhaven being out of bagels, is ongoing and will have at least twice the patches of Crysis.

Perhaps because Crytek pretty much did what Epic said it was going to do.Done when it's done.Play the UT3 demo vs the Cry demo and tell me different.Beta versus final imo.Lets not forget Crysis was pretty much a SP game only while UT3 is (or should be) primarily a MP focused game.SP games are done in a week or two while MP kind of evolves overtime with new content and what not.

I'm not going to try to get into the middle of this, but I think what's being said is that gametypes and mutators that change the game well beyond the feel of the original retail title - at some point - cease to be related in any meaningful way to the game off of which they are based.

It's difficult to compare one to the other because TAM did indeed make up a fair portion of the people playing UT2004 online... at one given point in time. If you wanted to hop in a game resembling retail UT2004, you would have to look pretty hard.

Which tells me that often times the community modders,mappers,and even long time players know what's better for this game that Epic.All thru the series I find myself playing more and more with mods,mutators, and custom levels because I really find it much more fun and unique.Sure it may fragment the community because everyone's playing something slightly different,BUT it also can appeal to a greater mass because just about anyone can find something they like in the game.Strip it down and your forcing EVERYONE to play pretty much one game with just a variation or two.No good imo.Thats what consoles are for.

Yes--but ONLY if it's done right.

Here's the problem--based on the design DECISIONS that were made for UT3, you have to wonder whether or not Epic has any further interest in making good, solid games for the PC. Jeff Morris has said that they are aware of their mistakes. OK--but did they really learn anything and would they have any desire to correct those mistakes?

Basically, for a UT4 to be good, it would need to be designed as a PC game and it would need to offer UT 2004 and UT99 fans something better than what they're already enjoying. This means that the user interface and server browser need to be better than what UT 2004 and UT99 had, etc.

I know Epic has the ability to produce a kick ass UT4. The issue is not one of talent and ability but desire. That's what I wonder about.

Good post.After 2k3 and now UT3 I am astounded that they have shot themselves in the other foot as well.Someone should just take away the gun.

I'd say the real problem is that Epic doesen't just view the UT series as games, but as playable tech demo's and test beds for their new engines, and thus, when they have a new engine out, they will also pump out an UT game as quickly as possible, and often at the cost of polish and content.

I wish they would treat the series more as a game, and less as a tech demo, and take the time it requires to make it really good, to make it ship with all the game-modes, options and content we would expect, so the whole community has good reason to move to the new game.

I really think they are going to sub the franchise if they keep going like this, 2K3 was a huge letdown to people and alot of players gave up on the UT series back then, and have never returned, 2k4 was a bandaid on the wound to its most lyoal fanbase, but alot of people refused to buy it as they felt they where getting duped into buying the same game twice, so it was not an unmittigated success, UT3 seems to be doing the same all over again, only worse this time, as Epic has now made it an obvious pattern, and people are just not going to buy UT games if they think each new version is just going to get more and more watered down (but with nicer graphics), and they will allways have to pay for it twice to get the full game.
Only a very small but loyal fanbase will stick with it then, but that just won't be enough people to make it profitable for Epic (or a succesfull online game for that matter), and they will probably move on.

Seems to be true from my perspective.

Does Epic even want to be contacted? Epic has already received more than two earfuls of complaints about UT3 and they've heard from people telling them how much they enjoyed UT99 and UT 2004 while they disliked UT3. In fact, if you start up a thread at their forums about what's wrong with UT3 or how the next UT could be improved so that it's better than UT3 your post will probably get locked and it's possible that you could get banned. (Heck, supposedly people have been banned for comments they posted on other forums, but perhaps that's just an urban myth.) That should give you some indication of how much Epic wants to hear from you about how the next UT could be an improvement over UT3.

It's not a myth.I can understand a small percentage of irrational people,trolls, whiny kids,etc. but it really didn't stop there and in time it only got worse.Flat out censorship when many are actually just trying to help the create a funner game which equates to more coin for them.SO they should have listened a little more before going all tyrant on everyone.

Its simple really, it's just not what alot of people wanted.

UT3 has a very uniformed look, gameplay and functionality, unlike past UT's that where alot more "open ended", with the old games there was pretty much something for everyone to enjoy, if you didn't like something it was easy to disable it or change it, they worked well both online and off, and the content was pretty varied, maps came in many sizes, there where lots of gametypes, different themes to both levels and player models, so really, just about anyone could play UT or 2K4 and find something they liked, and tweak the game to their preferences with the many options and mods, and thus, the UT community has allways been made up of alot of different gamers with different tastes, wants and needs.

UT3 does not have that universal appeal, there is just one theme and all the maps and players conform to it, there's not a lot of options you can srew around with to customize it to your liking, all the maps seem to favour only one style of play, offline support is very lacking of any features and is very poor compared to past UT games so its only worth playing online, but with a much worse server browser, and it has dropped a bunch of gametypes and features that many people liked, UT3 is just not very varied and customizable like UT games used to be, they went with just one theme and one style, and if you don't like that then the game is not going to be fun for you, as there is very little you can do to change it, aside from hoping that a mod team will release something for it you do like.

UT3 is a game that you have to like for what it is to enjoy it, but as you can tell from the lack of players online, it seems that the amount of people that like it is not all that many..

And no, its not just lack of adverticement, some sales figures have actually been released when the game was new, and whilst it was not a blockbuster, there where more than enough sales allready back then to populate servers! alot of people actually own a copy of the game, but they are not playing it, because they do not enjoy it, it is not what they wanted, and it doesen't do what they wanted, and it offers little to no choice for players in what it does offer.

Another truthful post that I can't disagree with.

I just wonder if they really learned anything from the UT3 debacle and whether they'll actually get it right next time. I wouldn't hold my breath. UT3's failure was based on a certain type of design philosophy that was very different from what they had with the original UT and UT 2004. It might be best described as the difference between making games for computer literate mature adults and in making games for children. (That's not an exact analogy, but it kinda summarizes the way I see it. You might also say that it's the difference between giving people a Lexus and giving people a Kia.)

Yet another precise post.Try to post this on Epic's boards and see what happens even though it's perfectly appropriate imo.U will get the failboat frustration ban because it's spot on and that stings the ones who worked so hard on it.

I have no real suggestion that I truly believe will fix UT because I don't ever think 99ers,2k4'ers,and newcomers will ever play together and be happy because there is no happy medium between the games themselves.Yes they are all primarily the same game,but gameplay dynamics are pretty different imo.Epic had a very tall order and I'll admit it was near impossible to do it all for everyone so they chose newcomers (more money) and the 99 crowd because it was their time.Those 2 groups outnumbered 2k4'ers so we were thought of last or not considered much at all.Understandable,but judging from what I still see on browser it was not a wise decision.

UT3 catered to consolers and 99'ers imo which will surely get me some flames since I lumped those 2 words into the same sentence.So look where that got us (of course there's many other reasons that have undoubtedly contributed).

I started on 99 and gave it many years so I am not knocking it anyway.It's just that 2k4 was much more challenging and that's why I naturally migrated to it.Unfortunately it forced the game to played at mid to long range which I did not like because the 99 in yo face style is pretty intense too,but the moves are boring now that I have 2k4 in my blood.

Also for the record I want for UT3 to prosper and I would play it if I could regularly find good pinging servers that were fun,populated,and error free.