Mark Rein Interview

[Grobut]

Indeed. If you want to personally attack Mark then join the UT3 server Mark is playing on.

Woulden't that require a PS3 though?

 

[Kantham]

Could you stop posting every single sentence Mark Rein said? I know, I know, I could ignore it... But as a matter of fact, I can't.

Could you stop posting every god damn song you listen to? It's annoying.
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=173734

 

[Sys-X]

Now they are just dissing us pc players, WE LOVE SUPER FAST GAMEPLAY WITH SUPER ACCURATE AIM. Oo Still a little mad because UT3 is so unfinished, even to this date.

 

[UnrealGrrl]

and the worst part is that i think alotta ppl get so caught up in the whining and moaning just for the hell of it that it does appear its an Us vs. Them kinda thing and its NOT!

too many forumers just like to post what they think are witty, insightful & cutting sarcastic takes on a hot topic so that they appear to be 'in the know' or look cool and that just drags the whole issue down into a muddy mess. its the "me too" complex.

its not that most of the true Unreal fans and players dont like UT3 or what Mark or Cliffy or any of the devs haveta say. alot of us love UT3 and are just sad at the state it was delivered in and the resulting luke warm reception/online numbers. add to that the obvioulsly rushed release followed by all the 'console is great' talk and thats a really tough pill to swallow for those of us out here in the trenches.

and i cant help thinking if time had been spent on making cross platform play possible - we'd all be saying how great it is to have consoles onboard instead of the other way around.

 

[Sirius]

Happy Valentines Day!

 

[WarTourist]

too many forumers just like to post what they think are witty, insightful & cutting sarcastic takes on a hot topic so that they appear to be 'in the know' or look cool and that just drags the whole issue down into a muddy mess. its the "me too" complex.

All this does is get the forumer added to our vbb ignore list.

We read virtually everything posted on our forums and BUF, there's no 'obnoxiusness' threshold that must be achieved before we start to notice. I get the impression some folks thinks it's the only way to get heard, when in reality it's the best way to never get heard by Epic again...

 

[IronMonkey]

All this does is get the forumer added to our vbb ignore list.

We read virtually everything posted on our forums and BUF, there's no 'obnoxiusness' threshold that must be achieved before we start to notice. I get the impression some folks thinks it's the only way to get heard, when in reality it's the best way to never get heard by Epic again...

Worth being made into a sticky.

I, for one, am fed up with the constant (well, it feels like constant) trolling on all sides of the argument.

I hope that that I'm not perceived as trolling on the topic of UT3 but one gets sucked into the argument (normally I would write "discussion" but I believe it has become an argument).

Can we move on somehow? What's done is done. UT3 is what it is.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how this might be achieved short of waiting for UT4 or banning all mention of UT3 other than in a technical context?

 

[BigDragon]

All this does is get the forumer added to our vbb ignore list.

We read virtually everything posted on our forums and BUF, there's no 'obnoxiusness' threshold that must be achieved before we start to notice. I get the impression some folks thinks it's the only way to get heard, when in reality it's the best way to never get heard by Epic again...

This is exactly what upsets people who put time and money into your product. You guys have some hard business lessons to learn here. Chrysler has done the same thing you and the rest of Epic have been doing, and look at where it's gotten them? They're constantly dodging bankruptcy, getting restructured, being traded around different acquisition firms, and laying off people. Sure, not every wheel pops off every Dodge truck and not every dashboard malfunctions in every Chrysler vehicle. Enough people do have these experiences and get vocal about it to contribute to the company's steep decline. 1 upset person tells their friends who tells their friends and so on. 1 upset person can post on social networking sites online and reach dozens if not hundreds or thousands of people in an instant. The existence of a problem is not enough to deter people, but the personal customer interaction relating to the problem is where you gain or lose customers. You really need to take some brush up courses in customer satisfaction.

See, now you're just lying.

Yeah, those quotes are just mind boggling. Either Mark is playing a different game or he's got some mental issues.

Now for the keyboard and mouse thing being too fast compared to consoles, I'm with him there. I openly admit I suck at this game and only bought into it for the editing capabilities. However, it's very plainly obvious to see that it's not the keyboard and mouse at all. He's complaining about speed and twitch reflexes not being enjoyable. The thought "hey, let's slow things down" should have come across his mind. Why in the world would you release a game that you don't even like to play, Mark? That's just absurd. Slow it down, polish up a few more things (like what was done with the PS3 version), and try it again. If you don't like playing the game, then chances are a lot of other people won't like playing the game either. Are people going to get mad? Probably, but you'll also reach out to so many more people who are not fond of the twitch-speed either. If games like Halo and CoD have taught us anything, it's that there is a huge number of people who prefer games that operate at a steady paced speed--not a twitch-based speed.

 

[Spank$hot_BT]

Worth being made into a sticky.

I, for one, am fed up with the constant (well, it feels like constant) trolling on all sides of the argument.

I hope that that I'm not perceived as trolling on the topic of UT3 but one gets sucked into the argument (normally I would write "discussion" but I believe it has become an argument).

Can we move on somehow? What's done is done. UT3 is what it is.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how this might be achieved short of waiting for UT4 or banning all mention of UT3 other than in a technical context?

I believe War Tourist is refering to the people who post the irrational/ personal attacks. The 'discussion' - for what its worth - will not go away anytime soon. The people on these UT forums [for the most part] care about this 10 year old franchise that they've invested so much of their time, money, thoughts and efforts. Hopefully no matter how much we like/dislike defend/attack aspects of the game people will try to temper there comments with a little rational, objective thought where possible. who am i kidding.

I think Epic also need to take some of the responsibility here. They have hardly tried to diffuse this 'them vs us' situation unrealgrrl refered to. Shunning your existing fanbase is hardly good business practise, unless they're doing so well with their business to business sales of their game engine that they don't matter.

 

[Super-Moose]

Gaming is easier and cheaper on consoles for both players and developers. It's kind of like a standard transmission vs. an automatic, I suppose. The standard will always be there for the niche that care, but damn near everyone else will be going automatic.

Ahahaha, Americans and cars...

 

[Sir_Brizz]

This is exactly what upsets people who put time and money into your product. You guys have some hard business lessons to learn here. Chrysler has done the same thing you and the rest of Epic have been doing, and look at where it's gotten them? They're constantly dodging bankruptcy, getting restructured, being traded around different acquisition firms, and laying off people. Sure, not every wheel pops off every Dodge truck and not every dashboard malfunctions in every Chrysler vehicle. Enough people do have these experiences and get vocal about it to contribute to the company's steep decline. 1 upset person tells their friends who tells their friends and so on. 1 upset person can post on social networking sites online and reach dozens if not hundreds or thousands of people in an instant. The existence of a problem is not enough to deter people, but the personal customer interaction relating to the problem is where you gain or lose customers. You really need to take some brush up courses in customer satisfaction.

This has got to be the stupidest thing I've heard all week, honestly.

Look, if you are going to complain about a service or product of a company, what is the best most effective way to get them to listen to you? I'm here to give you a reality check: It's not making snide and cutting remarks every time you're allowed to converse with them (in any fashion, forum post, email, phone call, what have you).

When you are saying is effectively: "If I disagree with a law my governmental representative is backing, I should be free to write him a letter telling him he is an idiot and will never amount to anything in life and still have my voice heard!" It really sounds like you are the whiny kid who is upset because he spilt his own milk and wants to blame it on the dog.

These people are NOT good customers. They are not the kind of people that other people gang up with. They don't ever make any arguments that are convincing, because their whole attitude reeks of blind hatred, and most people realize that constructive complaining is much more useful than simply complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

[EdWinchester]

All this does is get the forumer added to our vbb ignore list.

Thats your choice. Dont think anyone here expects miracles and 15000 people playing come next monday. You said if people post valid/constructive points you will be heared. This is actually what people did with the demo, but hardly anything got addressed. Again thats your choice.

Thanks for listening if am not already on your ignore list. Look forward to future patches.

too many forumers just like to post what they think are witty, insightful & cutting sarcastic takes on a hot topic so that they appear to be 'in the know' or look cool and that just drags the whole issue down into a muddy mess. its the "me too" complex.

Well it is a forum, like WarTourist says "then put them ignore". If these comments is offending or breaks the rules, then mods can remove them. But i find your comment rather elitest. You basically say anyone who dislikes it and maybe post something you define as "witty".. is doing that as image and being a "show off". Now if that isent a generalization of xxx users and highorse attitude. I think a majorlity cared for all of ut and several spend countless hours making addon for the previous versions.

I wont post anything more about it, I will just wait and see what comes in the future... but am gonna try hard not to keep looking at this "trainwreck", which I have to admit has been hard not to.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

So Valve and Infinity Ward, who make lots of money on both console and PC sales, (e.g. 5 Call of Duty 4 patches, countless TF2 fixes and patches, plus new TF2 maps, and a Call of Duty 4 mapping contest exclusive to PC.) still continue to LOYALLY support their PC fanbase. Crysis, which despite low sales in the USA, went platinum and continues to sell worldwide at a very fast rate. The Witcher just hit 600,000 copies sold. The Sims still sells at an astonishing rate. And of course, World of Warcraft, which just hit 10 million subscribers, thats more than the population of many countries.

PC gaming isn't dead. Its still a profitable industry. Take Bioshock for example-fantastic game, sold a ****ton of copies. It sold more on 360 than PC, of course, but it will still VERY profitable on the PC. We're not seeing the end of PC gaming, its just going multiplatform. Considering TF2 and CoD4 are multiplatform, yet the PC versions are still treated as the superior versions (see examples above, CoD4 and TF2 for consoles are pretty much out of the box for good in terms of content).

Once again, Epic turned what could of been a blockbuster top tier PC game into a shipwreck. How? Horrible demo, lack of features, horrible user interface,and most of all, lack of ANY sort of real advertising.

The community didn't kill UT. Epic did. And when a developer doesn't give a **** about their community, why should the community give a **** about their game?

 

[Anuban]

To be fair the advertising issue is out of Epic's hands ... Midway is just not good at Marketing games ... haven't we learned that by now. When was the last time Midway had a really big hit that was also a great game ... it's been a while and I thought for certain after the disappointing sales of Stranglehold and BlackSite Area 51 that UT3 would pull them out of the fire but they even blew marketing that by waiting until the PS3 version came out to start running commercials. All I know is that if Epic had listened to people during the demo a lot of issues would be moot at this stage. I still scratch my head when I look at the UI for UT2K4 and the UI for UT3. How could the devs have overlooked the bot stuff and the team roster stuff ... and AA ... I am sorry but until a developer addresses these issues there is always going to be a good amount of very upset UT gamers. Me ... I just keep hoping that by the summer the game is fixed in the fundamental areas (the stuff I mentioned just above ... and things like settings for the gameplay/gametype being remembered ... basically the rules of the match. Remember in UT2K4 there was a whole area devoted to rules and they stayed set until you changed them ... man do we need this for UT3 ... do you know how many times I have started matches without the mutators I normally use loaded just because of the lack of this ability to save settings.).

But I am a UT addict ... no getting around it. I just downloaded and played some great UT2K4 content and I did reinstall UT3 yesterday and played with some new PC content from the community as well as get on the PS3 last night and play a bit. I even played some UC2 a bit today ... Epic I really dig this Unreal Universe but please fix the issues and think about coming out with a next gen UC3 ... I really think that is what you folks should work on for the Xbox 360 since it is a closed network and mods are not going to be readily available on the 360 platform. UC3 would have been the better game and it could have been exclusive to the 360 and then you could have focused better on making sure the PS3 was better with mods ... especially the character bug which is really unbelievable no one caught that ... see the thing is lots of these bugs makes people wonder if you folks really do any testing because it seems unlikely you would have missed them.

Still the most perplexing issue is always going to be the issue of the UI of how none of the feedback from the Beta demo made it into the actual product. If the UI was good that would have netted the game 90s across the board. I don't think people would be that upset with the lack of Assault or Conquest (Warfare is cool and all but really it is a far far cry from what a lot of us hardcore UTers were expecting ... I remember when Conquest was first being talked about the level of excitement was off the charts because it really felt like a true evolution of ONS ... sorry but Warfare is not an evolution at all ... it plays way to much like ONS even with the orb. Plus the maps are no bigger .. some seem smaller and the player counts seem smaller as well. Imagine a UT3 released with a proper PC UI, settings that stayed saved, Conquest as a gametype, Assault as a gametype, the lightning gun, more models/factions (what the heck happened to Thundercrash, the Hellions, the Black Legion, Skaarj, etc.), a really good Server browser, and man that would have been a proper update of an aging but still fantastic franchise.

We did get a good game no doubt about that ... but UT has always been great (even UT2K3 was great to me as it was that title that roped me into the Unreal Universe with its eye popping graphics and incredible modablility) and I think that was what really got to some people ... from great to good (and some would even argue this) is just not what people expected when Unreal Tournament was combined with the Unreal 3.0 Engine. Most expected something even better and more next gen than Gears ... especially given that this game came much later and it did have a separate team so it didn't suffer from Gears schedule ... so really this is what it all boils down to.

 

[«BuA»Lurker_71]

I've just got to say something here, and this is my own personal point of view.
It's all complete and total honesty, imo... and WarTourist, I'm going to direct this straight to you.

I bought UT3 on it's release date... I was excited as hell. Couldn't wait to get to mapping out my first UT3 map, and I fully intended to bust my butt and work to become one of those mappers you always hear about.
My wife and I actually got into a really bad argument over the game before I even installed it... she knows from previous UT experience that I can get a little obsessive when I get into a game, and I've actually spent over 24 hours straight working on a map... but that was in UT2004.

I'm an old LGI fan... and I don't know why you guys suddenly decided to change low grav, but it's beside the point... the point is; little disappointments added up quickly.
My clan spent money on a server, and because everyone was so angry at the problems UT3 has/had (especially on the server side of things), no one would play it... as it stands, we're currently discussing supporting another game and leaving the UT community in general.

Now all that aside; the things that started to upset me, was going to the UT3 forums and reading all these posts about things that should be changed, could be changed, etc... and it seems to me that they were never truly addressed until word of a patch showed up.
After that, the attitude from Epic felt a lot like "we gave you a bone, go chew it"... and UT3 PC was suddenly drowned in the UT3 PS3 hype, and seemingly forgotten.
Months go by, and it seems that nothing gets addressed, and "whiners" get banned, have threads deleted, and continuously get "punished"... but no word comes from Epic saying "we're working on this", only "hey, look at what you can do on PS3" or "this is gonna be great on the 360".
Meanwhile, people stop playing your game. People who have been in the UT community for years are suddenly going to other games, and it seems that Epic doesn't care.

And that's what we really want to know, Wartourist; "Does Epic still care about it's PC gamers/supporters"? Because we're not feeling it, we're not seeing it, and I would personally be horribly disappointed if Epic suddenly turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to a community that has stood by them for years.
But then again; I'm only one gamer... and there are millions of new PS3 and 360 gamers out there, ready to take my place.
I just thought that a community's loyalty, support and understanding would be worth a few lines from Epic saying that we haven't been forgotten, and that we still matter.
Based on what I read here, and what I read on other sites; it seems that there's a lot of emphasis on consoles, and that Epic might go that path... and I can certainly understand expanding the franchise, but I would hope that Epic would remember it's roots, and not leave us feeling like we're being left behind.

Like I said tho; this is just my opinion.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Lostsoul]

Assault as a gametype

Considering all the sh!t you gave me and the AS community on the Epic/IGN boards about Assault, I find this funny. Despite how much I dislike you, you have had some good posts in this thread. Stop it.

off topic
Give me Assault and I will play UT3, I skipped 2k3 as well

 

[Godfrey.Payans]

So Valve and Infinity Ward, who make lots of money on both console and PC sales, (e.g. 5 Call of Duty 4 patches, countless TF2 fixes and patches, plus new TF2 maps, and a Call of Duty 4 mapping contest exclusive to PC.) still continue to LOYALLY support their PC fanbase.

They "loyally" support Windows, perhaps. No Linux version for these games means they're in it for the money or some love for Windows (which seems unbelievable), not an emotional attachment to PCs.

It's good to see in other threads that UT3 is actually selling ok relative to previous games in the series.

I'm not so sure that the various negative things people report have been holding back sales relative to other games, because the dealbreakers tend to be things that you find out about after buying, to the regret of people like T2A' for instance who dislikes the maps. Maybe putting out a demo was a bad idea too.

I think it's more about not having enough mindshare, which is partly due to not advertising, as you mentioned, and I think partly due to the fundamental game type of fast and meaty carnage currently being a niche one. Not much appears to have been done to make it more attractive to the general player; maybe that would have made it a different game than Epic wanted to make.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

And that's what we really want to know, Wartourist; "Does Epic still care about it's PC gamers/supporters"? Because we're not feeling it, we're not seeing it, and I would personally be horribly disappointed if Epic suddenly turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to a community that has stood by them for years.
Thanks for listening.

+1. I need to see something, anything, just please let me know there are still some UT PC loyals at Epic...Rein and CliffyB are both console obsessed douchetards, I want to hear from a developer that can reassure me. If no one can, well, I know a couple games where developers do listen.

I always feel like a battered wife with Epic. As much as they beat the **** out of me, I still love UT.

 

[Anuban]

Considering all the sh!t you gave me and the AS community on the Epic/IGN boards about Assault, I find this funny. Despite how much I dislike you, you have had some good posts in this thread. Stop it.

off topic
Give me Assault and I will play UT3, I skipped 2k3 as well

Uhh I think you have me confused with someone else bud. I have never disliked the Assault gametype ... in fact I tested and made suggestions on many AS maps and I am listed in more than a handful of readme files as a contributing tester. I also don't remember getting into protracted debates about the AS gametype since I hadn't been exposed to it from UT99 at that time so I had nothing to really compare it to. There was some kind of mod or something for UT2k3 and it was cool but nothing like UT2K4's Assault. Actually one of the best levels ever is AS-Confexia ... and also Angel Mapper made one of the best AS levels around ... with the bots able to do all objectives and actually do them well. Anyway I can't remember getting into arguments with folks about Assault but this was years ago so perhaps it is possible. Still I think you are confusing me with Anubis who is another member of the Unreal Community. On the Epic boards and the old Atari boards I go by AnubanUT2K4.

As far as disliking me ... join the club ... If I had a nickel for every time I head that ... I don't even let that bother me ... people disliking people they don't even know except from some threads on the net due to a difference in opinions about a game. Now that is funny .. not that I am not also guilty of the same thing ... being human sometimes is a chore.

 

[BigDragon]

This has got to be the stupidest thing I've heard all week, honestly.

Look, if you are going to complain about a service or product of a company, what is the best most effective way to get them to listen to you? I'm here to give you a reality check: It's not making snide and cutting remarks every time you're allowed to converse with them (in any fashion, forum post, email, phone call, what have you).

When you are saying is effectively: "If I disagree with a law my governmental representative is backing, I should be free to write him a letter telling him he is an idiot and will never amount to anything in life and still have my voice heard!" It really sounds like you are the whiny kid who is upset because he spilt his own milk and wants to blame it on the dog.

These people are NOT good customers. They are not the kind of people that other people gang up with. They don't ever make any arguments that are convincing, because their whole attitude reeks of blind hatred, and most people realize that constructive complaining is much more useful than simply complaining for the sake of complaining.

Brizz, you're forgetting the timeline and context of my actions. I only started the snide and cutting remarks after the out of the blue ban. I stepped them up immediately after seeing an Epic employee, Wartourist, tracking me down to other websites to see what I was saying and the things he started typing about me in private messages to people on the Epic forums. This whole thing has been a progression. First there were constructive comments and advice that went unheard in the beta demo. Then there were issues that needed immediate addressing (like the cd-key problem) in the first patch but were also completely ignored. These too were constructive and intended to improve the game and its editor. I was still contributing up to when the second patch was being announced and still important issues were left out completely or glossed over. Then it switched to what you call "whining" and after the out of the blue ban the snide and cutting stuff started. It's a step by step progression and illustrates deteriorating customer satisfaction. Not everyone reacts to poor customer relations in the same way. You can call me a "whiny kid" from your perspective, but from my perspective you're a lap dog; no offense intended--I'm trying to make a point. In the milk carton scenario you referenced, it's actually that the milk carton you made reference to has a leak--I didn't spill it. If I had spilt it I would have known because things don't just tip over by themselves without some sort of action being exerted.

For the politician thing, you better believe I went bat**** over that amnesty thing and handled that the same way this is being handled. Organization and numbers make the difference. It's much more visible when you've got pages of signatures, dozens of emails, dozens of angry calls, and the like. I would not have said that the official in question will not amount to anything in life just as I haven't said that about Jeff Morris/Wartourist. Do I think he and, in this example, any politician supporting that amnesty bill is an idiot? Yes. Do I want to see them fired, voted out of office, fix the problem in a more responsible manner, OR publicly apologize? Yes.

I've just got to say something here, and this is my own personal point of view. [. . ]

This is one of the best posts I've ever read on any UT-related forum.