New players to start in jail for competitive matches

[Ikkuh]

Not really a bug, but more of an exploit. This would be a good add-on for competitive play:

Someone is in jail, and he leaves. Then someone else joins the game and that guy is not in jail anymore. This exploit is very bad for competitive matches, because when a team is on the brink of execution, someone just leaves and another one joins to release the team.

Solution: during a match (not before), everyone that joins should be put in jail. Another option for everyone that joins when another player left while in jail, should be put in jail, is also good. This should be an addon because on pub-play it wouldn't work

[T2A`]

Originally Posted by Ikkuh

Someone is in jail, and he leaves. Then someone else joins the game and that guy is not in jail anymore. This exploit is very bad for competitive matches, because when a team is on the brink of execution, someone just leaves and another one joins to release the team.

QFT.

When you join a game of TAM in progress, you join the "dead" members of your team, not the free ones. With enough people ready to go on your JB squad, you could avoid ever being executed because you could rotate people in. Please fix this.

[tarquin]

Seems like a good idea.

Are there any other tweaks to the rules that would be useful for competitive matches? They could all go into one Add-on.

[The_Head]

We also had the idea of an option for stopping all escape attempts as some 'pros' don't seem to like it.
I think new players spawning in jail all of the time would work though , its annoying when you about to get a lock then you can't because of the new player.

[G.Lecter]

I'd remove Llamas from competitive matches (), since they still can kill players (although you won't go to jail...). If you jailcamp you should be directly teleported to jail.
An option to unable ArenaMatches would be OK for an Addon like this too, although I think hiding until an ArenaMatch starts is a good valid strategy.

[SirTahngarth]

Originally Posted by G.Lecter

I'd remove Llamas from competitive matches (), since they still can kill players (although you won't go to jail...). If you jailcamp you should be directly teleported to jail.
An option to unable ArenaMatches would be OK for an Addon like this too, although I think hiding until an ArenaMatch starts is a good valid strategy.

For this you can just turn off the Llama hunt addon, problem solved.

As for the arena, do we have to disable all of the things that make jailbreak fun and unique in order to be "competitive" ? I dont think the arena hurts competition (heck if you ask me it encourages it).

[Ikkuh]

the arena must stay. IMO only the things that hurt gameplay (free joins and llamas) must go for competitive matches. This should all be optional ofc, because for pub play they must stay

Instead of llamaizing, going directly to jail is better imo. Arena is good for comp, because it gives a losing team a chance to get another player in the field. Plus it discourages defensive releasecamping, because after some time all the players can be back in play again.

ofc JB shouldnt be thumbed down to a competitive gametype, but to attract a bigger audience, these things should be optional

[Hazel.H]

Sounds like a good idea If you join in the middle of the game and are still loading up the map someone usually kills you anyway I remember games that have dragged on ages because people kept leaving and joining.

[T2A`]

Arena is one of things that makes JB fun, so that shouldn't go. If you dumb down everything it ends up being TAM where you don't get all the weapons, and that would suck.

I dunno about escapes, though, because we haven't had any matches on a map that has them (except Heights, and that's easy to prevent). Aswan, for example, can be really, really annoyingly hard to get a capture in because everyone continually streams out of the bottom, but I guess with more organization like in a TWL match it won't matter because someone should kill the guy standing on the escape switch. I'd say leave them in for now. Assuming you can even do anything about them, which I doubt, considering it's map specific.

[tarquin]

I've been thinking about how to code for preventing escapes.
I *think* we can run a check on whether a jail is open each time someone leaves it. If the jail wasn't open, then it's an escape => frag 'em and send 'em back to jail with a message.

Can anyone think of a name for this addon?

[T2A`]

JBComp?

I'm assuming these things would be optional. I don't really know how TWL wants to handle jail escapes, so we might need appropriate check boxes to dis/enable stuff.

Someone on our team is also in the process of making a competition-friendly version of Arlon. The "official" one crashes many people's computers on execution, and the lifts have a tendency to kill people for no reason. We already have a version that corrects those things, but someone just recently pointed out you can shield jump up to the super shock when anyone wins the arena because the door stays open for a long time.

[Jrubzjeknf]

Just make a door that's open as long as there's someone in the ssr volume. That way it'd close as soon as the player got out.

Adding this stuff to the Coding To-Do List.

[tarquin]

Originally Posted by Jrubzjeknf

Just make a door that's open as long as there's someone in the ssr volume. That way it'd close as soon as the player got out.

ssr volume?

[Jrubzjeknf]

Super Shock Rifle Volume, where the arena winner spawns. Sry for lacking to write it down properly. :P

When llamas are fragged/teleported back to jail immediately, what do you see on the HUD/hear?
Newcomers should join in jail. What about reconnecters?

[tarquin]

That's something specific to Arlon, right?

For llamas, I'm not sure what we can do. It depends on the llama code.
I don't think there's currently a way of detecting a reconnection but doing something other than llamaizing.

[G.Lecter]

For this you can just turn off the Llama hunt addon, problem solved.

Forgot for a moment Llama Hunt is an Addon , but turning it off wouldn't add any penalty to jailcamping, which isn't a good thing...
Teleporting jailcampers directly to jail might be too much, maybe it'd be better if the damage you inflict to someone with Release-Protection affected to yourself, until you take so much damage that you die...

---
I pointed the ArenaMatch thing because you might meet some 'competitive' players saying that your teammate got free because he had the good luck that an ArenaMatch randomly started at the right moment... But everyone seems happy with the way it's now (me too... ) so leave it as is.

Perhaps it'd be cool if the random timing of the ArenaMatch was removed and you had instead a new key to challenge someone to ArenaMatch whenever you think it's the moment. A menu or something JB-scoreboard like would open so you can select the player you want to fight against. The other player could accept or refuse the invitation, depending on the situation...
It might not be worth making that since the random timing works quite well, although it could be a cool Addon itself... Just another crazy idea.

[tarquin]

So we have...

* new players join matches in jail
* escapes are not allowed
* llama behaviour sends you right to jail

This last one we can perhaps code by detecting a player being made llama, and killing it instantly?
It would make the GUI options a bit messy though, as you'd have to enable llama stuff anyway, and then check 'Send llamas directly to jail'.

Anything I've missed?

[Jrubzjeknf]

Yup. A reconnection is possible to detect, that's how JBAddonLlama detects a reconnection by a person who was in jail at the (last) time he disconnected.

I take it these guys should be sent to jail immediately too, because soon-to-be-dead people would be able to reconnect to safety and have full health.

I suggest we make a new JBAddon. All options Tarq mentioned can be put there. When the 3rd is enabled, this addon loads a modified version of JBAddonLlama which does and doesn't everything we need. It will not show up in the Addon list.

[Haarg]

I think it would be much cleaner to modify JBAddonProtection to add an option for reverse-damage.

[tarquin]

Originally Posted by Jrubzjeknf

I suggest we make a new JBAddon. All options Tarq mentioned can be put there. When the 3rd is enabled, this addon loads a modified version of JBAddonLlama which does and doesn't everything we need. It will not show up in the Addon list.

Llama will show in the Addon list anyway. If it's not there, it's because the relevant package is not in your UT folder.

I need to look at the code for what's possible, but I think the simplest thing is for option 3 to work like this:

1. set whatever llama options you want in the usual places: jail camping and reconnecting
2. in the new addon, check "llamas are sent straight to jail".

We already have a bit of a mess with llama stuff, because options are in two add-ons. I'd rather not delve into that too much if possible.