JB-Collateral

[Hazel.H]

Finally the holidays are here so I installed Maya this weekend and got to work on a new layout. I'm looking for some feedback on this alpha layout. There's no visuals or botpathing yet - only temporary lighting & textures, bsp, and weapon placement.

layout1_preview.jpg layout1_top.gif
Some screenshots of the layout

1stmesh.jpg
Here's my first attempt in Maya... don't laugh

I already have an idea of what I'm doing for visuals and music.

In particular I'm not sure what to do with the lowest walkway out of the base (where the minigun is). I want it to be a difficult route to take but the opposite walkway is just out of reach to get out of the base, and needs a very delayed jump to get in. I was thinking maybe extend the walkway or make a jump pad to the upper level. There will be a ctf conversion too, as usual Is the name ok?

Download: http://www.hazelwhorley.com/download...91;Layout].zip

Any feedback much appreciated

EDIT: Latest Version - jb-collateral-beta2.zip

[Kantham]

First maya attempt is nice (i swear i do not laughed.). If you want a tip, use the smoothing group (i would use the maximum for this object)

Keep up the good work, hazel

[tarquin]

First attempt in Maya... very impressive, but what is it?

Good name

[The_Head]

Map layout is looking cool aswell.
Are you going to stick with a theme to continue on with what you have so far. Can't think of any maps for jailbreak with a stone built theme. Some sort of castle would be awesome.

[Aersik]

/me likeys. Haven't seen a castle floating in space since Orion's Barricade. And that's a bad thing. Though if I'm playing on it it might as well be a bouncy castle

Originally Posted by Hazel

In particular I'm not sure what to do with the lowest walkway out of the base (where the minigun is). I want it to be a difficult route to take but the opposite walkway is just out of reach to get out of the base, and needs a very delayed jump to get in. I was thinking maybe extend the walkway or make a jump pad to the upper level.

I'm not entirely sure if you mean minigun->flak or flak->minigun there, because both routes are very similar in length, and both are a bit tricky. Flak->minigun is the easier though, as the flak platform is higher than the minigun platform. At the moment, the safest way to do mini->flak is to shield dodge it, which costs you health. Easiest was to make them equal would be to make the platforms the same height, but if you want it to be difficult it's probably best to leave it as it is.

I wouldn't be averse to adding a jumppad though. It'd probably let me get on the roof easier

[Hazel.H]

Originally Posted by tarquin

First attempt in Maya... very impressive, but what is it?

Something similar to the kind of meshes I want to make for the map. Don't know how to explain the theme, it isn't a floating castle in space anyway I'll probably put some terrain around the base of the buildings. The textures are only temporary.

[Kantham]

It looked like a kind of flower. Metal flower....

Originally Posted by The_Head

Map layout is looking cool aswell.
Are you going to stick with a theme to continue on with what you have so far. Can't think of any maps for jailbreak with a stone built theme. Some sort of castle would be awesome.

Soon maybe!

[G.Lecter]

Glad you see you are back, and learning Maya!

The current layout reminds me Gravity a little, just try to add more variation:
- The base needs a better way to move through, rather than that 'spiral' walkway...
- The liftjump to the diagonal walkway is not very reliable, if you fail, you die... isn't that too much?
- It would be cool if you could walldodge from the ShockRifle platform to the diagonal ramp with vials...
- Minigun platform feels like a deadend.
- The Pit in the middle of the room with the Keg is not too good IMO. You will find people that will love it, but also people that won't like it at all... Why don't you try something different?
- The Keg should be replaced by the 100shield, it's a bit easier to kill the one that takes it...
- Healths should be out of the base IMO, and not down a ramp if possible... (never liked pickups in corners...).
- 50shield placement... Uhm, the way it's now... no... but the layout still can change...
- More ways to go to higher floors are needed.

I think that's enough for this alpha... Adding the jails and bot support will help you (and us ) to see what's going well and what needs changes... Can't wait for next Alpha...

[Vatcilli zeitchef]

Alpha? did i miss anything? I thought it was just a layout demonstration.

[Hazel.H]

Thanks will post a new alpha soon. Just a bit busy with xmas and stuff

[Hazel.H]

Here is the latest version:
http://www.hazelwhorley.com/download...91;Layout].zip

The map has basic botpathing, jails & locks, and some changes G.Lecter and Aersik suggested There are teleporters that "catch" you if you fall at certain points, like the lift jump and the flak > minigun jump (these will be marked with some kind of visual effects). I added a pillar at the middle because I wasn't happy with the way you could see so far across the map into the other base.

You might notice players can get shot off the edges of the map easily, especially at the jail exits - I have some ideas to stop this but will have to make meshes for it

[The_Head]

Checked it out. I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with this.

I don't like the idea of the teleporters for people who can't manage the flakminigun jump etc.
Also I can't find the problematic lift jump :s

Also the window behind the switchs, at the moment I am presuming you will put an obvious window there? I would like it to be left pretty much as is but without the blocking volume. Could make for some good last second saves hitting people through the gap

[G.Lecter]

Heh, that lift in the base reminds me a JB Alpha-layout I've been working on!
- I agree, the teleporters don't make much sense, they will be more an exploitable thing than a way to help, the liftjump is easy to do now... I don't care having teleporters at the bottom, as long as all them are linked to Jails! (You can use the TeamSpecificTeleporters for that... )
- The Flak -> Minigun walldodge is impossible for me...
- I don't like much the place where the LinkGuns are, maybe the map would be better with them removed... I'd rather the RocketLauncher somewhere in the low floor (modify the pillar in the middle and place it there?), and leave the current RL place for a major powerup. The distance between the second and third floor in the centre room is too short btw...
- I think the distance between the base and the centre room should be a little larger. That would make the 'bridges' from room to room more risky and interesting...
- What about adding some jumpads, to get rid of the Minigun deadend for instance?
- And yes, do something with that Blocking behind the switches. I don't know a good way to do it, but I'd like to see another path going there...
Keep up the good work!

[Aersik]

Not too keen on the changes from alpha1 personally. Partly because you managed to remove the only way I had of getting to the roof, involving buckets of goo and shield jumping .

The lift in the switch room I really don't like. It's just too close to the switch for my liking, and makes the slope next it it practically redundant. I'm not too keen on the teleporters either.

The lifts in the base and near the shock rifle can both be used to get onto the roof very easily, particularly the one in the switch room (see the first demo).

Originally Posted by G.Lecter

- The Flak -> Minigun walldodge is impossible for me...

Demo #2 shows all the simple (at least I think they are ) ways across. For the walldodges and the dodgejump, you might want to turn the volume up and listen to the grunts for an idea of the timing involved. You have a fairly generous window to do the double jump, about 0.2 seconds I think. You'll be wanting to press jump somewhere near the end of that window to make it over. As for the weapon jumps, just look down, fire and dodge at the same time. Using the shock core is probably the easiest out of them, but the shield does less damage. The shield also responds to the direction of fire better than the other weapons, so firing it behind you will propel you forwards with much greater effect than firing straight down.

[Hazel.H]

I know this is a lot of alpha versions but I want to get the layout just right before the visuals I changed the layout of the bases completely in this version, added a skybox, zones, basic textures and changed some of the weapon placement. There will be doors (movers) in the doorways leading from the bases to the middle area. Lighting is temporary.

collateral_alpha3.jpg

No blocking volumes yet, so Aersik can camp to his heart's content I can make the flak > mini jump easily, but the other one is much harder (shield jump, jump, walldodge). Anyway I added a jump pad there to get to the upper level Also removed the teleporters, so watch out :P

Originally Posted by Aersik

Demo #2 shows all the simple (at least I think they are ) ways across.

P.S: Demo? did you forget to attach something?

Alpha 3 Download: http://www.hazelwhorley.com/download...ral-Alpha3.zip

[Aersik]

Fixed.

I accidentally hit the back button while writing that post...and forgot to check the demos were still attached . Thrown in some fun on Alpha1 too .

[Hazel.H]

Showoff thanks for the demos. I don't think I would try a flak-jump-walldodge online tho Should be a couple more jumps for you outside the lock area now, one to go up and one down.

[The_Head]

Adjusted Layout is great.

Please Bring back the old castle style textures. They would look ace, whilst at the moment this looks like it is going to be quite similar to your last 2 maps.

[G.Lecter]

Skybox owns! Love those flying bits... The new base layout is definitely better, more innovative...
A few points on gameplay:
- Having the ShockRifle (and the Minigun) beside the jaildoor will make of the map a combo fight IMO... The Shock should be where the Flak is now... Not sure if the Flak beside the jails would work...
- The Minigun platform still is not of my liking. Still feels like a deadend and I don't see any interesting use for it... Another attacking path should go there (shield jumps are not valid for me... )
- Not sure about the lifts in the centre room... The liftjump you do is way too strong, and I can't see those lifts looking realistic in the future... Now that the map has jumpads... Those lifts could be replaced by pads to the 50shield (jumpads to powerups are fun! ).
- The middle promises great spam fests the way it's now... I am not talking about the long sightline, just that the low floor is way too open. IMO removing the pillar in the middle was not a good move; there should be a sort of structure there, blocking the sightline from base to base, and holding the RocketLauncher in the middle...
- The highest path is the shortest way to attack the bases... IMO way too short against the other paths... I constantly feel doing the liftjump before entering the enemy base... The liftjump, however has an awesome defending function: Player1 is in the low floor in the base, going towards the jumpad; Player2 sees him but it's too far from the switch: The liftjump is necessary if Player2 wants to counter Player1 on time...

Good luck! And please don't use those bright trims!

[Hazel.H]

Thanks again G.Lecter

I think I'll keep the lift jumps the way they are in the middle but a door out of the middle at each side, so defenders can hear when there's an attacker more easily.

I'm putting a kind of shield system around the jail exit walkway, to stop players getting shot off the edge with the shock rifle after they get out. Will think about the weapon placement more though