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Old 25th Nov 2001, 11:06 PM   #1
Zundfolge
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Angry Naughty children to be registered as potential criminals

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...5/ncrime25.xml


/me wonders how many britts in this forum will end up in this database
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Old 25th Nov 2001, 11:20 PM   #2
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Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you as well.
One more bogeyman to scare our children with.
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Old 25th Nov 2001, 11:27 PM   #3
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i only breifly read the artical, but apearently it's only kids that have commited some minor crimes that'll be watched. Same old advice applies. keep your nose clean, stay outa trouble..
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Old 25th Nov 2001, 11:29 PM   #4
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And always pay for things in cash so you never leave a paper trail...
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 12:17 AM   #5
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that is almost a good idea... if they actually want to do something, they should just start after school programs in these high risk areas. that will stop crime a lot more effectively than putting the cops onto the kids, and aybe even be cheaper. in canada, if you are a young offender (under 18) once you turn 18 your criminal record is erased, which gives you a fresh start. i don't know how many people actually live up to it, but it's a good idea. this bill/law/whatever needs something like that.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 03:47 AM   #6
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MadDog, are you serious ? They'll be "monitored" at 3 years old. What is next ? This chill my spin. They should make parents responsible for the education of their children, not aim at the child directly. They should make a nice and secure environment for the children to grow, not aim babies for their "violent" behavior...

And the thing about cleaning criminal record is crap. People tend to abuse it. In France, gangs enroll kids to commit crimes at their places, knowing the kid will be released...
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 04:44 AM   #7
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I don't think I need to say anything about this crap
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 05:23 AM   #8
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This CRAP is in our country and I think it's the stupiest thing ever. Oh my three year old was cheeky now he's being watched. What a load of f**king s**t
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 08:12 AM   #9
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.....
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 08:40 AM   #10
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Thumbs down THREE WORDS...

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Old 26th Nov 2001, 09:08 AM   #11
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Hmmm very dodgy. If i was still at school I would porberbly be put on it. But they call it secret, if a child has been warned that he is being monitered, and he has got any kind of brain he can request copies of the information that is being stored about him under the data protection act 1998. So then the child could see what he is being watched for. But and this is a big but it does say that some data regard the way crime is detected and prevented and catching or prosectuting offenders. Another thing, If i remember rightly arn't you incocent until proven guilty here in the UK?

http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk

Oh and being a typical class A1 moron I tyed this out on my old school and got all my internal reports and coments that teachers said about me, and it only cost me a tenner
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Er are you being cheeky?
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 09:29 AM   #12
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So, LieLestoSbrat, let me see if I have this straight...it's okay for the government to invade your privacy as long as they tell you they are doing it?

So if the government decides it thinks you might do something wrong it's okay for them to put cameras in your house as long as they tell you they are there?


That's the crux of the issue too...the government shouldn't be putting people under survelience because they might become criminals someday.

Quote:
Another thing, If i remember rightly arn't you incocent until proven guilty here in the UK?
Well they are trying to do away with trial-by-jury in the UK so who knows how long "innocent until proven guilty" will last (in the UK or the US )
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 11:30 AM   #13
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Originally posted by MadWoffen
MadDog, are you serious ? They'll be "monitored" at 3 years old. What is next ? This chill my spin. They should make parents responsible for the education of their children, not aim at the child directly. They should make a nice and secure environment for the children to grow, not aim babies for their "violent" behavior...

And the thing about cleaning criminal record is crap. People tend to abuse it. In France, gangs enroll kids to commit crimes at their places, knowing the kid will be released...
i said it was almost a good idea, not quite. i can see where they are coming from. but i doubt this will stop much crime, it may just overload englands prisons. get the sfter school programs going i say. keep the little bastards busy, and they don't have time to misbehave.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 11:42 AM   #14
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You shouldn't use the words "good" and "idea" in the same sentence concerning this subject...
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 11:52 AM   #15
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Originally posted by MadWoffen
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You shouldn't use the words "good" and "idea" in the same sentence concerning this subject...
will do.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 12:32 PM   #16
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Zund, I don't think its right for them to invade your privacy, even if they do tell you that they arre doing it. And I certanly don't think that they should be puting camaras or any other surveliance equipment in your home. But like I pointed out you can potentialy get around this monitering. On trail by jury I read in a newspaper that they are thinking of getting rid of it for small offences like petty theft.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 02:48 PM   #17
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There will be lots of worries but as long as it is understood that the purpose of holding this information is to ensure that we should collectively intervene to prevent children from becoming criminal I think that it will be accepted."
Do they really think this is the case? Oh jeez... *sigh*

Here's my solution, brewed from the works of Robert Heinlen (yeah, he's influenced me a lot ):

Human beings, the core human, the animal part that everyone tries to ignore but always affects them responds to one major stimulus: pain. What does the human part want most of all? Social acceptance; being 'one of the group'. So what punishments most torment the human and animal part? Public Punishment.

For simple things, we should reinstate the stocks. They're uncomfortable and everyone can see that this person did something bad, and all they can do is wait through the pain.

For worse things, lashings THEN stocks. A few lashes to the back, surrounded by public onlookers laughing at them then spending time in the stocks (after, of course, the wounds are cleaned up) would be a big deterant.

Then of course, for grave crimes, lasth them and give them the noose.

And it should all be done publicly. Always. Let people see what happens to criminals, not lock them away somewhere where they won't be seen. Let the pleebs hear the prisioners cries and screams of pain so they realize that crimes are wrong, and they will be accordinly punished.

Who would dare steal, knowing if they got caught they'd be publicly humiliated and hurt? Why you commit a greater crime knowing you will be executed? None of this "watch and follow" crap. Make punishment so horrendous that to commit a crime will not be worth it.

And to bring this back to children, I feel that parents are 100% as responsible for their kids actions as the children are themselves. If a parent has a child under 18, if that child does something, the parent messed up and should be punished. Period.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 03:01 PM   #18
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Keganator: Go live in Singapore arsehole, in case you didn't notice, everyone else doesn't want to be beaten half to death for stealing a piece of gum. Society is it's own best police. Society is it's own best censor. Third-parties (ie: the police) shouldn't even be involved.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 03:08 PM   #19
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I feel that parents are 100% as responsible for their kids actions as the children are themselves. If a parent has a child under 18, if that child does something, the parent messed up and should be punished. Period.
Yeah, I'd have loved that when I was a kid.

ME: "Mom! I demand you buy me [insert toy name here] or I will burn the neighbor's house down and they will throw YOU in jail"

MOM: (shivering in fear) "Sure son...we won't be able to make the house payment this month but oh well...it beats prison."


People should not be punished for other people's misdeeds (even their own children), it just empowers the evil-doer and harms the innocent.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 03:46 PM   #20
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Do you guys even know what most crime is a result of? need.

The most common crime by far is that committed out of need, be it a junkie who must steal to get his/her fix, poor people needing food or other vital things, such as toilet paper (you try to live without it!), or people who just dont know how to make a living any other way (ghetto spawn), for every crime comitted out of greed, hate, or a sence of power, hundreds are comitted out of need.

The solution to the most crime does not lie in the punishment, and all the "prevention" programs i have ever seen (including the one starting this argument) have been doomed to fail from the start.

You want to cut down on crime? then remove the need to comit it, do something to better the living standard of the poor, stop the war on drugs and find some appropriate way of handling them instead, and make sure that education is good and fair for everyone, not just the rich and middle class kids, then, and only then, will you see crime rates drop.

Crime will never go away, greed, hate, power etc etc, will allways compell some people to step out of line, but they are a minority, and only count for a fraction of the crime we see today, the big bulk of it is created by politics, like outlawing drugs, and making it hard for poor people to fight their way up, or even get an education, if thease social problems where delt with, and removed, instead of making them taboo, and sitting tight on the wallet, crime would be an endangered species.

The next problem that must be delt with, is our society's denial of human nature, we know that kids, boys especially, will at some point rebell, it is part of growing up, its proven fact, so lets by all means give them a chance to do so in a safe invironment, instead of having to go out and break windows.

Youth clubs work wonders, but there are too few of them, and their in too poor a condition for the most part, why? because they cost money, and apparently young people arent worth spending any of said money on...anyone see a patern?
Most juvenile crime is comitted out of boredom, and often boredom mixed with stress and fear over school problems, and problems in the home, remove the boredom and you have done what you can, and i'll promis you that you will see results.

To resolve the problems with crime, one must put fourth an efford to remove said crimes reason to excist, its common sence, yet it appears to be a compleately alien consept for the big suits in congress.
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