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Old 19th Nov 2001, 03:30 PM   #1
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Cool CTF-Rollercoaster

For a long time I've been having this map concept for a CTF map that would make you feel like riding a rollercoaster. With that I mean that this map will feature lots of high-speed tunnels with lots of bends. Not as fast as those in HallOfGiants, that's no fun, but with a ZoneVelocity of 600 to 1000 or something, so that it would be possible to put up a fight while speeding through the tunnels.

But the most special feature of the map would be a real working looping, one that really makes you go upside-down. I've already made some testmaps and I got it to work using InterpolationPoints and it really made me dizzy! Most of the tunnels would be underground, but the looping would be outside, on pillars, to better show you're really going upside-down. Another nice feature would be to add a giant stone titan statue with his mouth wide open, and that you would be kicked out of a tunnel coming out of a mountain into his mouth. I've already tried putting a warpzone in a giant titan's mouth just in front of his mesh, and you can really create the feeling of entering his mouth and falling down his oesophagus.

I'm haven't made up my mind about the lay-out of the map yet, but I think it would be best to have a red base, a central area and a blue base, all connected by a number of high-speed tunnels running from and to these sections. One or more of these tunnels will have a looping and one or more will feature the titan. Of course not all tunnels have to be underground all the way through.

The tunnels will get their speed by using ZoneVelocity, zero gravity and bWaterZone, but infinite UnderWaterTime to prevent drowning. Also waterfriction=8, to prevent ultra-speed cheating, which is possible in HallOfGiants. I would need a minimum of 18 VelocityZones; 6 VelocityZones for each straight direction and 12 zones for each diagonal direction, used in bends. VelocityZones with the same direction could be 'grouped' by a 'sewer' system to prevent exceeding the max zonecount of 64.

The map's textures and architecture would be Skaarj-themed and I have a number of other ideas that would make this map more fun and better looking, but I won't go too much into details because this post is already big enough.

The problem is that I don't have the time to make the entire map myself, and I fear I won't be able to finish it before Unreal2 comes out...

Is anyone interested in forming a cooperation to make this map? What about different people working on different parts of the map simultaniously (I think this could work)? It would be cool if this very unreal map ever got turned into reality, wouldn't it?
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 04:00 PM   #2
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*Nice* idea Astyanax! *lol*, I happened to think of Hi-Speed tunnels too, today - Not like you described them, just plain straight tunnels, and no velocityzones, just moving platforms. Would be fun though. But nevermind, I doubt I'll ever turn *this* one into reality...

About your map: Why not make a DM of it? As much as I like CTF, I guess one giant stone titan is astonishing enough, don't you think? The Zone limit would also be less of a problem... PLUS you could ignore large scale tactics like in CTF, and concentrate on the gameplay in a much smaller scale. I mean: It wouldn't take as long to build it, and it would be more original. (Thinking of *two* giant titan statues... kinda dislike the idea ) Have you thought about how it would be able to change routes already? Or would everyone just be *swimming* in circles? I guess you'd also have to switch off the ScreenFog and -Flash to disable the waterish screen coloring...

All in all: Sounds like a cool idea, just think it through a bit more! And, um, if you'll still be interested now that your task has grown so much smaller, I'd be glad to help you a bit!

Cheers!
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 05:17 PM   #3
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Arg, I got so much stuff to do already

I did some curves in pipes with velocity zones and shtuff, it was messay !

Oh, well i'm sure you'd do a great job, i encourage u to do it

When's U2 coming out? is it that big of a deadline? I honestly want to get 3 or 4 more maps out b4 u2 hits

Oh, welll, i like the idea a lot

Luggage did *u* ever notice that you *use* *'s to much?
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 05:20 PM   #4
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Luggage did *u* ever notice that you *use* *'s to much?
*lol*


...rofl bwuahahahaha! I'm the *KING* of *A*S*T*E*R*I*K*S*S*E*N*S*!*!*!*!*!*



...roflmao, to conclude this post with a climax.
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 05:25 PM   #5
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hehe, no seriously, I'm not used to using [ i ]'s and [ b ]'s much... so I try to emphasize my text with symbols alone

And I think you'd be able to do that thing with velocity in curves not smashing players by getting yourself a nice neat vector angle calculator... and then calcing what vector you need to get from the long speedy straight to a short speedy curve... (Phew, got some Maths exams tomorrow...)

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Oh, well i'm sure you'd do a great job, i encourage u to do it

...
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Old 23rd Nov 2001, 06:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luggage
About your map: Why not make a DM of it? As much as I like CTF, I guess one giant stone titan is astonishing enough, don't you think? The Zone limit would also be less of a problem... PLUS you could ignore large scale tactics like in CTF, and concentrate on the gameplay in a much smaller scale. I mean: It wouldn't take as long to build it, and it would be more original. (Thinking of *two* giant titan statues... kinda dislike the idea ) Have you thought about how it would be able to change routes already? Or would everyone just be *swimming* in circles? I guess you'd also have to switch off the ScreenFog and -Flash to disable the waterish screen coloring...
Hey Lugg, well I never thought of making 2 titans; I was thinking of an asymmetrical CTF map. My idea was to put the red base (or the blue base for that matter) inside the titan's stomach. One of the ways to enter that base would be to get kicked into the titan's mouth, fall down his oesophagus and splash into his gastric juice (just greenish water). The flag would be on some object pointing out of the water. If you carry the enemy flag and take the route through the titan's mouth, you'd have the choice between landing in the water and then climbing to your flag, with the risk of being killed by persuing enemies, or you could splatter down on your flag and score at once.

About the tunnels, I was thinking of, say, 3 tunnels from the red base to the some 'relay station' and 3 back, and same for the blue base, so there'd be about 12 tunnels and 3 areas. If each tunnels had a nice number of bends to make the player feel like riding a rollercoaster, it may become necessary to 'group' velocity zones.

I've made some testmaps to see what's the best way to set up a 2d-shape-editor-revolved-bend. Using 1 velocity zone for a 90 degrees bend will smack the unfortunate player to all sides of the tunnel. This can be solved by adding invisible collision hulls to keep the player in the middle of the tunnel while in a bend. However I don't like this solution as this could cause terrible bsp errors when the map grows in size and complexity. Interpolation points would be a bad idea too (because this fixes your view rotation), and I don't know how to make a 'nice neat vector angle calculator'. I think it would be best to divide the bend in more velocity zones with different directions. 2 zones for 90 degrees (total at least 30 zones) should do the trick, but using 3 zones (42 zones total) or even 4 zones (54 zones total) is also possible.

To make a cooperation possible, I think I'd better make a start with the map and then post it here for anyone to look at and add stuff. I can then import all added stuff into one map and post it again, and so on. Does anybody think this might work, and is anybody interested in participating?
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 05:32 AM   #7
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Yeah, sounds nice. Count me in!

What I meant by that vector thing: If you have a VelocityZone with a Velocity Vector that makes you go, say, "this" fast, and you want to have a 45 bend, then you'll have to set the other VZ's Velocity Vector to be "this" fast as well, but in a 90 direction. You get what I mean?
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 07:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luggage
What I meant by that vector thing: If you have a VelocityZone with a Velocity Vector that makes you go, say, "this" fast, and you want to have a 45 bend, then you'll have to set the other VZ's Velocity Vector to be "this" fast as well, but in a 90 direction. You get what I mean?
The method you describe (if I understand it right) will smack the poor player to the side of the tunnel. I think you're expecting the player entering the bend will have residual speed from his previous VZ and that this speed, together with the new velocity vector in the bend, will make the player do a nice bend. However this is not the case; When a player enters a (new) VZ, his velocity will be set to this VZ's velocity vector, killing the player's previous velocity.

I've also tried using tunnels with a huge amount of kickers in them and no ZoneVelocity. It worked, but not without flaws. It was too easy slow down by keeping the back arrow pressed, and sometimes you could even stop yourself from moving. Using a combination of ZoneVelocity and kickers didn't work at all and ZoneGravity is much too weak inside waterzones. I'm still with the idea of 1 VZ for each 45.

BTW, have you ever tried holding down the duck key just after entering a tunnel in HallOfGiants?
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 07:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luggage
Yeah, sounds nice. Count me in!
Alright! Anyone else interested?!
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 07:27 AM   #10
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How about you don't use WaterZones then?
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 07:29 AM   #11
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I mean, use Gravityzones only. That would also imply that Vector method I meant. I think there's pro's and con's to both, just decide which one works better!
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 07:55 AM   #12
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These are the pro's and con's of the available combinations of ZoneGravity, WaterZone and ZoneVelocity:

ZoneGravity, no WaterZone, no ZoneVelocity: Players will only be pulled through the tunnel when they jump. And without vertical gravity, you'd move all the time, but you won't have any control over your Z-axis movement whatsoever.

ZoneGravity, WaterZone, no ZoneVelocity: Even at highest gravity, you'll still move too slow, and you'd be able to swim back.

Normal ZoneGravity, no WaterZone, ZoneVelocity: This would feel like walking through the tunnel very fast.

No ZoneGravity, no WaterZone, ZoneVelocity: Works OK, but you'd have no control over your sideway and Z-axis movement.

No ZoneGravity, WaterZone, ZoneVelocity: Best option IMO. You will always move and you'll have total control over your sideway and Z-axis position in the tunnel. With a little script you can make sure the player will never drown and you can increase his underwater speed, for even more control.
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 08:25 AM   #13
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No scripting required to stop drowning, just set bPainZone to true, then Damage per sec to 0. this will stop drowning
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 09:37 AM   #14
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No scripting required to stop drowning, just set bPainZone to true, then Damage per sec to 0. this will stop drowning
Thanx, didn't know that trick!
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 12:22 PM   #15
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What happens if you set FluidFriction to a very low value? Shouldn't it be possible to make the combination of WaterZone and GravityZone then? And as for players just moving when jumping in GravityZones... I think this is caused by the PlayerPawn state: Gravity applies only to the state "Falling", IMO... so there's no gravity, be it vertical or not, applied to the player. Could try that by reversing gravity values: if you can walk around on the ground and fall up only when jumping, what I said is true. if not, I'm talking BS. I don't know

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Old 24th Nov 2001, 01:19 PM   #16
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o_O /me thinks you is right, but then again I could be talking BS aswell
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Old 24th Nov 2001, 01:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luggage
What happens if you set FluidFriction to a very low value? Shouldn't it be possible to make the combination of WaterZone and GravityZone then? And as for players just moving when jumping in GravityZones... I think this is caused by the PlayerPawn state: Gravity applies only to the state "Falling", IMO... so there's no gravity, be it vertical or not, applied to the player. Could try that by reversing gravity values: if you can walk around on the ground and fall up only when jumping, what I said is true. if not, I'm talking BS. I don't know

Lugg
No no no you're talking BS. FluidFriction MUST be 8, otherwise you will get very strange things. Any lower value will make it possible to travel at ultra speed when holding the duck key (try it in HallOfGiants). And the gravity won't be more effective, you'd still be able to swim back. As for the falling up thing, just make a small testmap and try it!
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 03:25 PM   #18
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Cool

OK, I just made a start with the map by trying out Tarquin''s extruder. I got some nice looking looping out of it!
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 03:26 PM   #19
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Cool

Here''s a screenie of the huge titan with his mouth open.
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Old 26th Nov 2001, 03:35 PM   #20
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Cool

I was thinking about the shape of the tunnels, which should be very easy to make. But I was also thinking about high-speed routes over land. Instead of tunnels on pillars, 'portals' like these could be a good alternative. I could place 1 portal every, say, 2048 units and add invisible collision hulls to prevent players from escaping the route. I think this could be very cool if this portal route is set in a grand canyon-like environment.
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