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Old 9th Nov 2001, 04:48 PM   #1
R-Force
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Skirmish maps concept

Looking back at some old maps from Realmaps, i noticed a lot of the older maps are very small (file size) while being good sized gameplay wise. One thing that annoy me a lot online is most good maps are a pain to d/l and take a lot of space on my HD so i'm forced to restrict myself from d/l / trying them... Also most players have a low patience threshold and would just quit when a new map show up and they don't have it...

So my idea would be to make generic maps that mostly reuse currently used textures and sounds (and prefabs) to keep d/l small, but make up for number and variety (this would fit INF quite well since battles can be fought anywhere at a moment notice). They would be easy to make and their small file size would allow a server to keep a large variety of them, as well as not scaring players with long download time...

Having well designed and decorated maps is cool, but when you end up with only a few maps to play (that are played out quickly)... I guess you get the idea...

So, anyone like that concept?

Oh yeah, skirmish maps should have a SK in their name so everyone know they are a small d/l and not meant to be a masterpiece but a cool battleground...
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Old 9th Nov 2001, 05:37 PM   #2
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To add to my idea, the map could be divided between theme and not have specific names so players would still have to guess where they will "land on" when the map is loaded.

They could be :

-Trenches (war thorn battlefield with trenches and lot of debris, crater and man made covers...)

-Industrial (industrial complexe)

-Underground base (Something like Siberia or Servenaya)

-Military Stockpile (like Arsenal)

-Ruined city (bombed out city block)

-Forest (just trees, water, and anything green in between )

-Jungle (alike forest, but more foliage and humidity maybe a lot more of ambiant sounds)

-Snow (glacier, tundra, frozen lake, mountain... )

-Urban (Still standing buildings and houses)

Edit :

-Tunnels (Man made or natural ones, Dark and poorly lit)

-Mines (Both open or underground ones, with mining equipment, big holes and maybe flooded or caved in areas)

-Research Center (you know about thoses)

-Skyscraper (you fight inside a skyscraper, all with windows, elevator shafts, maintenance levels and lot's of rooms and furnitures)


Please add if you have others...

Last edited by R-Force; 9th Nov 2001 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 9th Nov 2001, 06:43 PM   #3
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Been there, done that.
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Old 9th Nov 2001, 09:41 PM   #4
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Not sure of what you mean...
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 01:34 AM   #5
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Well, a wayz back, I made a mappack for just this occasion. One map was a trench map(DM-INF-Trenches), and the other was just two bases, with a maze and tower in middle(DM-INF-TrainingCamp). People didn't seem to like either for some reason or another, but the trench map actually made it to a server(wow). You can grab them at my site, or just trenches at Realmaps. I have no more plans to do any more of those. They are fun to make, cuz thay are easy though. Did those pretty much in one weekend.
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 02:39 AM   #6
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nah, most players don't want to play on ugly maps and most mapper don't want to make those
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 06:07 AM   #7
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thats exactly the problem. mappers want to create creative maps. this can't be done with just the standart textures most of the time (well, now we have more textures, but most of the time its just not what i need). imagin a angelheart map with just standart textures... you see? still nice to play, but it wouldn't be the same.
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 10:14 AM   #8
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Maybe some texture packs could be made to make short download maps possible. Also making some reuseable geometry to make several variants of a maps so we could have several different battlefields instead of just one...

Well, maybe i should try to learn mapping so i could try it myself...
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 10:45 AM   #9
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I'm pretty sure simple maps can be devised without making them downright ugly. I'm not sure but i think many mappers use texture where proper lighting effects would have done it just as well (i don't know if lighting makes map grow larger in file size or have any serious performance issues).

Takes a map like Siberia : pretty simple design, no outstanding textures yet very fun and not ugly at all (look nicer than many maps i seen using more elaborate textures). Maps like Chasm would look a lot better using more lighting effects without needing any change to the textures.

Anyway, i'm probably speaking through my hat, but if i make sense...
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 11:06 AM   #10
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Jaymian, i think i do know why your training camp did not make it anywhere. I'm downloading it right now but by the look of the screeny i can say it's just too bland, with large empty space... I'm pretty sure you could have added some boxes, maybe a few holes in the ground or some small buildings and a few fenses without much work. Also to overcome the bland look of your textures, some lighthing effects (moonlight, some shadows, a few blinding spotlights) would have helped...

Like i said i know little about mapping, but knowing how i usually do things, i would have scavenged a few things from other maps, put them in one in an intersesting fashion, add some light effects to give it a more pleasing appearence then i would have mostly done it... I'm good at drawing but i suck with drawing programs so i would not rely on that to make a map...

The more i think of it, the more i want to learn to do it...
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 11:17 AM   #11
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TrainingCamp is a box factory as people put it. That's like the only cover in that map. I like they way they look, but I'm a freak mapper.
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 11:46 AM   #12
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Hum... I just tryied it and i guess there is more problem than just the look Jaymian...

I just wonder who would use such a training camp to train themselves. What would they learn there exept being sitting ducks and machinegun fodders?
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 03:29 PM   #13
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Maybe swat teams to do entry training. Or maybe I didn't think of the best name. I was going to call it Snipercamp2, after my first map, but a friend pointed out how it wasn't like the first, so I just came up with that. But hey, who said you had to like/play my maps. The reason I started mapping was because I didn't like a lot of maps that were out there, and wanted something different. So go to it new mapper. We'll see how perfect your maps are.
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Old 10th Nov 2001, 11:20 PM   #14
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Don't misunderstand, i did not mean to downgrade your work, you did what you believed was right... I don't think i will do much better if i ever convince myself to try...

I do like your trench map, i do think you should do others like that one...
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Old 11th Nov 2001, 02:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by R-Force
i don't know if lighting makes map grow larger in file size or have any serious performance issues
dynamic lighting affects the framerate
i see your point, but please elaborate more on 'lighting effects'... not sure if i get what you mean, but stuff like sunset lighting gets boring as well if it is used in every other map
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Old 11th Nov 2001, 09:12 AM   #16
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Well, i mean more lights and shadows. Most maps i seen have mostly the same lighting level for most of it, very little contrast between inside or outside and most of the time don't bother to add light sources... Of course things like blinking lights or setting or rising sun effects are cool, but it's not what i was thinking about...

One reason i like Cosovo (both day and night) is the author did bother to make a significant difference between shadows and light. This both make it more real as well as making it harder for a player to abuse of the gamma correction since some area of the map would become blinding or too dark, so they mostly have to accept some area to be blinding and some others very dark and hard to see... At least it is for me when i'm playing.
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Old 11th Nov 2001, 11:49 PM   #17
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I think a lot of the problem you are dealing with when it comes to all these new maps that are large to download (due to textures of course) are not the fault of the textures themselfs, but the fault of the mapper. I'm guilty as the rest, but I'm getting bettter.

What I mean by this is not every texture needs to be 256x256. I have seen small brushes that are like the area of 32x32x32 (real small box) that are using textures that are 256x256 scaled down 4X to .25

This is a waste! sure, like I said, I'm guilty of it in the paste but in some cases you might have a wall that is far off and you are never going to get close to it... and it does not NEED a 256x256 texture. 128x128 is fine on a wall that is 128 units tall, IF you never get all that close to it.

My point being, most of these texture packs are big simply because the mapper does not evaluate the right texture size for the brush and so the texture packs are MUCH larger than they need to be.

How many mappers out there use 256x256 for every texture and then scale it down far more than it should be done.... most.



Just my 2 cents... (ok more like $5 and some change)
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Old 12th Nov 2001, 07:58 AM   #18
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mappers can also cut down the download size when they delete all brushes after the last rebuild
the downside is that nobody could change the map afterwards, though [without the original file]
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Old 12th Nov 2001, 10:48 AM   #19
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Eeeeee!!!!

I have many times wondered if this would be still play fine and all... like what kind of crazy bugs could come of this later.

But I LIKE the idea from a standpoint of "it's done, now NO ONE messes with it".

Interesting idea never the less.
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Old 12th Nov 2001, 12:50 PM   #20
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I guess i would not mind if the mappers would delete extra and no longer nessessary files from their packs if it could save me quite a few megs on my HD (My UT dir is becomming huge!). I think the files needed to edit the map should be made availiable in some other pack so thoses who don't need it wouldn't have to waste space (and increase d/l time) needlessly...

Well, maybe some day it will happen .
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