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Old 1st Nov 2001, 09:53 AM   #41
Zundfolge
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Goat speaks the truth (well kind of the truth).

In most police departments in the US, if you score too high on IQ tests you are rejected.

You are not accepted if you are average (you have to be average to be accepted) but if you have a higher then average IQ you will be rejected.

This is partly because police unions don't want officers hired who will question their authority but it's also in part because government doesn't want police officers that will think for themselves.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 09:58 AM   #42
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Cheif Wiggum to the rescue!

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Old 1st Nov 2001, 10:05 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zundfolge
In most police departments in the US, if you score too high on IQ tests you are rejected.
Christ, are you serious?
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 10:08 AM   #44
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Yes G-Fresh, and im fairly shure that goes for the UK aswell.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 10:20 AM   #45
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I don't think thats true here, actually I'm pretty certain it's not.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 10:58 AM   #46
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http://www2.cnn.com/LAW/greta.at.law...thistopic.html


maybe it's just Connecticut


here's another article on the subject
http://www.adversity.net/0_PoliceFireMuni/PFM_intro.htm
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 02:30 PM   #47
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The Libertarian Party found an interesting reason why not to trust the government.

http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?...iew&record=547

Quote:
U.S. biowarfare tests remind us of the danger of government 'protection'

WASHINGTON, DC -- For Americans terrified by the anthrax crisis, here's some surprising news: This isn't the first time we've been the victims of a biological hazard.

And here's even more surprising news: The last time, it was the U.S. government that was secretly blasting American cities with bacteria, experimenting with different microbe delivery systems, and killing unsuspecting people.

In fact, the U.S. government conducted a total of 239 open-air tests of biological agents between 1949 and 1969, exposing millions of Americans from Florida to California to potentially dangerous bacteria and cancer-causing materials.

At least one person died from the top-secret tests, and at least a dozen other Americans were infected, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Details about the experiments finally came to light in 1977, after news of the tests were leaked to the press. That year, in testimony before a U.S. Senate subcommittee on health, the U.S. government admitted to:

* Blasting a bacterial fog over the entire 49-square-mile area of San Francisco from September 20-27, 1950. The bacteria, Serratia marcesens and Bacillus globiggi, was sprayed via giant hoses from U.S. Navy ships in San Francisco harbor.

While both bacteria were believed to be safe, 11 people checked into local hospitals in the weeks following the secret attacks, all with cases of pneumonia caused by Serratia marcesens. One person, a 75-year-old retired pipe fitter named Edward J. Nevin, died. Doctors were baffled by the unexplained outbreak.

* Releasing Bacillus globiggi bacteria in Washington, DC's National Airport and a Greyhound bus terminal in May 1956. At least 130 passengers -- who then traveled to 39 cities in seven states -- were exposed to the bacteria.

* Spreading Bacillus subtilis bacteria in the New York City subway in 1966. Military researchers dropped lightbulbs filled with bacteria onto subway tracks in midtown Manhattan, and then traced its spread throughout the subway system.

* Scattering zinc-cadmium-sulfide particles -- now recognized as a cancer-causing agent -- in the air over Minnesota and other Midwestern states. Researchers then tracked the fluorescent compounds as they spread more than 1,000 miles.

* Dispensing Serratia marcesens bacteria on Key West and Panama City, Florida, and releasing Bacillus globiggi along the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

At the 1977 Senate hearings, government spokespeople said the tests were conducted because of concerns that the country might come under biological attack during the Cold War.

While the U.S. government released bacteria for very different reasons than the terrorists who are today mailing deadly anthrax spores, there is one important lesson to be learned from those two decades of secret bioterrorism tests, said Libertarian Party National Director Steve Dasbach.

"As U.S. politicians pledge to track down the terrorists responsible for this current deadly outbreak of anthrax, Americans need to remember that government protection can sometimes be dangerous," he said.

"In the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, the U.S. government's secret biological experiments infected and killed Americans in the name of protecting us from a biological attack. Last week, the U.S. House and Senate passed an anti-terrorism bill that attacks the U.S. Constitution in the name of protecting us from terrorist attacks.

"While the government may have a fundamental role to play in protecting this nation from attack, it also has a fundamental obligation to not protect us to death -- as it did when it secretly blasted San Francisco with bacteria in 1950. And the government has an equal obligation not to deprive us of fundamental civil liberties -- as it did when it publicly passed the new anti-terrorism bill last week."
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 02:35 PM   #48
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I question articles written by a politcal intrest group

now if I heard such report from a third party publication such as a Canadian, or British I might reconcider.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 02:38 PM   #49
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Well pc, if I can find the actual documents from MKOFTEN and MKNAOMI I will post them.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 02:43 PM   #50
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your mean this?

http://www.raven1.net/mk1977.htm

Quote:
MKDELTA: This was apparently the first project established
by the CIA in October, 1952, for the use of biochemicals in
clandestine operations. It may never have been implemented
operationally.

MKULTRA: This was a successor project to MKDELTA
established in April, 1953, and terminating some time int
the late 1960's probably after 1966. This progam considered
various means of controlling human behavior. Drugs were
only one aspect of this activity.

MKNAOMI: This project began in the 1950's and was
terminated at least with respect biological projects, in
1969. This may have been a successor to MKDELTA. Its
purpose was to stockpile severly incapacitating and lethal
materials, and to defvelop gadgetry for the dissemination
of these materials.

MKSEARCH: This was apparently a successor project to
MKULTRA, which began in 1965 and was terminated in 1973.
The objective of the project was to develop a capability to
manipulate human behavior in a predictable manner through
the use of drugs.

MKCHICKWIT: This was apparantly a part of the MKSEARCH
program. ITs objective was to identify new drug
developments in Europe and Asia and to obtain information
and samples.

MKOFTEN: This was also apparently a part of the MKSEARCH
project. Its objective was to test the behavioral and
toxicological effects of certain drugs on animals and
humans.
I have heard of this before. yeah the US has got store holds of this stuff (we are not as goodie goodie as we all think). and I do belive we have tested it on people...
prehaps even our own.

I just think the article you quoted was meant to be leverage for there political party and only would include the parts that supported there cause. thats all.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 02:53 PM   #51
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Without doubt we have tested them on our citizens. Unfortunatly I cannot find any copies of MKNAOMI or MKOFTEN documents, I presume they were destroyed. I do however have some documents that escaped destruction at the termination of MKULTRA. The few I have clearly refer to human experiments, especially in the area of hypnotic mind control.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 02:56 PM   #52
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Quote:
The few I have clearly refer to human experiments, especially in the area of hypnotic mind control.
but do they say "WHO" was experiments where done on?
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 03:00 PM   #53
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Generally, the tests were done on mental patients, prisoners, and near the end of the project's life, unwitting everyday citizens. There are also more specific references to experiments, such as those on Mr. &lt;deletion&gt;, or Mr. &lt;deletion&gt;.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 03:06 PM   #54
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interesting

but I would like to see more info on stuff like that.

also did you know in post war Japan's bio weapons where apart of those studies?

They gave them to us than rather hand it over to the Russians who plowed throught Japanese troops in China.

Japan is still pertty peeved @ Russia

saw that on the history channel was really intresting.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 03:09 PM   #55
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If I rank those people above your average citizen you know how much i hate people.

Anyway I remembered something a Polish survivor of the Holocaust said:

The people who hunted him and killed his family were not the Germans they were not the enemy they were the baker the grocer your next door neighbour "give them a hat with a skull on it and they are suddenly "das herrenvolk"".


This is a classic case of things not being the way they should be, in Theory a governemnt would only serve to protect it's people and make decisions in its peoples best intrest. They would employ only the best and brightest.
Ofcourse in reality a governemnt serves those who have the power and they employ only the most gullable to do their menial work.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 03:18 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goat ****er
The problem with the Japaneese system is that, though their extensive police force does keep violent crime to youre person down, it doesent provide that extra bonus the right to a gun does, that beeing acting as a detergent for the Government to not do bad stuff.
Exactly. In the American sense, that "extra bonus" is the primary point; it's the reason for the Second Amendment and the reason we used to have no standing army.

To Fur and Phat: I see your point, but -- to put it simply -- I don't trust the government. The less power it has, the better. So, yes, I will keep guns to defend myself against intruders and, if that drastic measure ever becomes necessary, the government.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 04:22 PM   #57
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Rogue- the subway test in the 60s was with a harmless bacteria. It apparently was to see how BW agents would spread in a subway, both from a military attack and a terrorist attack.

Anyway, back on thread.

I can't believe the STUPIDITY of putting these untrained idiots on air-ports. Judging by the arsehole in the article, you guys now have bullys with weapons. Wonderful.

They have practically no training (3 days according to the article) before they are stationed at their air-port for security.

Besides, soldiers are NOT trained to be glorified policemen. They aren't trained to recognize terrorists or stop them if there is an attack.

Maybe special forces would be better suited (not that much more) to this kind of role, but not thge Army and definitely NOT the National Guard.

I'm sure that everyone will feel safer with convenience store clerks armed with automatic weapons with little training with them, in an air-port with civilians

If there was an attack, they probably would kill more people then the terrorists would.

Hell, do the people responsible for putting the NG there really think that future terrorists would barge into an air-port and start shooting people? No, they will be releasing NBC agents or use other means that are much more subtle.

Moral boaster? That's the main reason why these people are there, not for providing an adequate security presence.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 04:25 PM   #58
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I forgot to note that it is illegal for the National Guard to even be in our airports. The Posse Commitatus Act makes it illegal to use the military in law enforcement.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 04:26 PM   #59
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Yup, as usual they go for the quick and easy solution of showing a lot of muscle while in the mean time not doing anything to solve the problem. Ofcourse solving the problem is not in their intrest anyway since it takes way too much time and resources to do so and they'll be out in 4-8 years tops anyway.
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Old 1st Nov 2001, 04:35 PM   #60
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Exactly, governments by their nature do want to solve problems. As mentioned here the only reason people want government is to protect them. If the government has nothing to protect people from, they have no purpose and there is no reason for the rulers to still keep power.

Quote:
Therefore a wise prince ought to adopt such a course that his citizens will always in every sort and kind of circumstance have need of the state and of him, and then he will always find them faithful.
quote]Without doubt princes become great when they overcome the difficulties and obstacles by which they are confronted, and therefore fortune, especially when she desires to make a new prince great, who has a greater necessity to earn renown than an hereditary one, causes enemies to arise and form designs against him, in order that he may have the opportunity of overcoming them, and by them to mount higher, as by a ladder which his enemies have raised. For this reason many consider that a wise prince, when he has the opportunity, ought with craft to foster some animosity against himself, so that, having crushed it, his renown may rise higher.[/quote]

Our government has adopted a Machievellian outlook at the moment...
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