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Old 5th Aug 2001, 06:18 PM   #1
R-Force
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Locating the enemy safely...

For INF to get even farther from the "RUN and GUN" (tm), we need some better ways to locate the enemy than run around and hope to spot them before they do the same... Right now we only have footstep sound (wich don't always work online), decals (wich also fail to work most of the time, when they don't simply disapear almost after they where spawned) and gun sound (most of the time someone just died, and running toward the sound isn't the best way to see who won)...

We need more sounds we can use to locate and identify enemies, we need new ways to look around without getting shot in the head in the process, we need binoculars (hopefully comming soon) and we need a very easy to use communication system (multiple panels menus are not user friendly, and not everyone knows how to bind them, or bimd them in a useful manner)...

Sound :

Breathing (when you are close enough, especially when the person just ran around and is catching breath), loadout clinging (when moving around), radio sounds (you can hear a muffled speech when you are near enough of an enemy using radio, if he's a friendly you can hear him clearly).

* Would be nice if friendlies communicating radio messages would be easily heard when nearby while a less clear radio message would be heard when they are far away, this way we could know if the friendly radioing is nearby of far away just by the sound...
For typed messages, a different beep or something would be helpful to guess who's talking...

Looking around safely :

There should be a "look around corner, above the crate or under the bed" function that would allow us to see around, above or below objects without exposing our whole head or body (no firing during that move). It should be very quick and easy to use...


Any other ideas, comments?
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 06:33 PM   #2
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i agree with 'hearing' the enemy totally. the weapons sound is great, the sound of walking on snow, grass and such it's all great. the radius could perhaps be somewhat larger so that you'd hear another player sooner / further away. the panning of one's footsteps ( i just posted this but hey, 2 times is better than 1! lol ) is miiiiles apart and could be best made ,straight up, MONO.
The radio stuff.. hmm i don't know if i'd agree with you there but maybe i'm just too fond of inf as it is right now and afraid of changes. I'm already afraid that the 'feel' will be completely different in 2.86.

The "look around corner, above the crate or under the bed" function.. hmm... i think that's too much work for these guys. I think that would require totally new movement programming, animation stuff and not to mention AI adjustments that are just too work/time demanding. The current AI spots you anyway even if you just pop up for a second.

well *yawn* i'm off to bed.
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 06:36 PM   #3
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I agree with you on everything about the look around. I dont really see the point. In 286 we got lean and if you wanna look under the bed its called going prone. As for the beep it should only be for living players and not dead ones. Other than that good ideas
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 06:45 PM   #4
NotBillMurray
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I like the suggestions for improving the sounds for enemy detection.

I don't know what kind of radio is being modeled for team communication. If it is subvocal and ear mikes, those are basically silent to the enemy.

I would love for someone with multiple slung weapons to have additional noise added when they move around.

All in all, good suggestions (with the exception of the overly complicated looking suggestion).
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 07:06 PM   #5
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For the "peek around corner", you would not need that much work to do it since basically you are not supposed to shoot while doing it, so they might not even need to make a new animation... It's mostly for the user to be able to see and not be shot at while doing it...

But if there is to be an anim, the inf guy could simply put his weapon down and do a small "peek" anim that would last about a second, the hitbox would remain the same and that's all... Well, the look under was not a very serious suggestion, but looking slightly above while beind cover without having to jump or stand up if you are crouched would be helpful...
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 07:54 PM   #6
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I think if you stay very close to a wall without your weapon aimed you can accomplish the same thing with leaning. Just do it and then move back fast and you won't be exposed for too long.
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 10:48 PM   #7
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But there is a problem Monk_Zero : While they may not be able to shoot you with bullets, they still can see you well, more than enough for them to know it's time for a grenade or go after you...

What i wish for is some way to look around "safely", in a maner that would be hard for them to notice the "peeker"...
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 11:00 PM   #8
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even if you were peeking they would notice you since most of you head would have to stick out. Peeking would be a useless function
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 11:09 PM   #9
yurch
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at a distance tho...
I still kinda think leaning out just a lil' bit will serve the same function.
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 11:11 PM   #10
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In RL, to peek around the corner you don't need to expose much of your head, and most of the time you only need on eye , not both to have a good idea of what's around the corner...

In game it would only mean a small part of your head would be exposed for a very brief moment so you would be far less likely to be spotted...
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Old 5th Aug 2001, 11:17 PM   #11
yurch
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Yeah, thats what I do whenever I sneak up on someone...
Its far less noticeable at a distance
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Old 6th Aug 2001, 12:46 AM   #12
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You would be surprised the amount of control you have with the leaning. I think this can be accomplished with leaning now. I just did a quick test by leaning far enough out to see the situation and then checking to see how much of my body was exposed. It pretty much amounted to half my head at most. Assuming the final implementation of leaning (in 2.86) keeps this intact, it should work fine for what you're looking for.

Just do it with the weapon at the hip so your elbow isn't noticeable.
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Old 6th Aug 2001, 10:46 AM   #13
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Hum... I'll check that out...
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Old 7th Aug 2001, 05:54 PM   #14
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a *bump* for the "sounds" suggestion...
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Old 7th Aug 2001, 06:31 PM   #15
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Maybe incude a feature to turn off your radio so you won't get detected but you won't get any important messages either...
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Old 7th Aug 2001, 08:07 PM   #16
R-Force
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At least the sound part goes well, i wonder how much they can do with it so it be more tactically useful (meaning more reliable to locate the enemy and not just yourself)...

I hope they can do something about hearing through walls and ceilings too clearly : on some maps like the one in a train station (argn, forgot the name again), sound travel too well through walls, floor and ceilings, very hard to say how far they really are from you...
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Old 7th Aug 2001, 08:19 PM   #17
yurch
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That one is really hard to do R-force. Realistic sounds need a hellish ammount of calculation...
But we can skip over most of those effects and just take the ones we want/can do
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Old 9th Aug 2001, 03:18 AM   #18
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If you can see one - one can see you
If you can't see one - one can see you
If one can see you - one can kill you.


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