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Old 8th Jul 2001, 12:08 AM   #1
Gladiator
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Llama admins...

I put in a request at the Llama farm to have a player, who happens to be an admin for a particular clan server, added to the scrolls of the Llama. I didn't have any proof of the events, but I did copy the e-mail I sent to the server's two admins. Do you think this guy will be added?

This is the e-mail... I think it's honest proof enough. After all, I AM the last honorable warrior

To whom it may concern;

I would like to bring it to your attention that an abusive admin by the player ID of BC_nivek has kicked and banned me from your Unreal Tournament server at 216.54.22.126. I had done nothing to provoke this childish behavior. Following is a recount of the events that transpired to trigger this childish and abusive behavior. While I was playing on your server, I had joined the team opposite the winners of the previous match, this in turn caused an imbalance in player numbers. My intent was that someone else would move to the other team to balance out the skill. BC_nivek proceeded to kick me. When I reconnected and stated what I was doing, BC_nivek threatened to ban me (like there aren't over a thousand servers to choose from). BC_nivek then made a weak joke about going over to the other side as an attempt to insult my skill, as if he was in any position to judge. So I did as requested because, hey, he asked for it. After BC_nivek realized his team had no chance of winning after my team scored multiple times, this childish administrator proceeded to ban me. I have a very large pool of IP addresses to choose from, as I demonstrated. At no point did I provoke an arguement, I simply reconnected, and at one point asked BC_nivek why, if your server MOTD claims you do not discriminate, he had banned me. I complied with his request, therefor there was no cause for this childish behavior. He banned me because he was dissatisfied that I was more skilled in Unreal Tournament than he. This I feel is highly dishonorable, especially for one who wears a clan tag in front of his name. Since BC_nivek is obviously one of the two administrators for this server, I'm sure this e-mail is pointless. But that is quite alright, as I have countless other servers to play on, with far more respectable members of the UT community. I felt I should send this e-mail anyways, regardless of the low maturity level of the administrator in question, and hopefully he will change his childish ways.



Sincerely,

Bill Zibbell
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 12:31 AM   #2
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I have countless other servers to play on
Maybe you're better off concentrating on that particular part of your email.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 01:15 AM   #3
Gladiator
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I am. I just wanted to make him feel about 2 inches tall.

I have encountered Llama admins like this before. I figured it was time to enter them into the hall of fame.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 01:43 AM   #4
SimplyCosmic
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At this point in the community's lifespan, being "inducted" into the Llama Farm carries little threat. Frankly, most people don't bother noting whether someone's in it or not.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 02:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimplyCosmic
At this point in the community's lifespan, being "inducted" into the Llama Farm carries little threat. Frankly, most people don't bother noting whether someone's in it or not.
Sad but true.
I remeber the good ol days when I was a wee noObie to UT and it's ways and some of the regs would band together every now and then to go hunt llamas. Sigh ......
To be honest I don't even know whose on the farm anymore and I'm a reg here.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 09:52 AM   #6
DeaJae
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hmm
how about raising awareness.
say lets make a list of clans who would not tolerate their players being lame. and a course of action if tehy catch some1 doing it.
maybe something on clanbase, we will play this clan until they have declared that they are anti lame or cheat and abide by their policies of withdrawing/replacing the player or relief them.

time to make lameness legal binding
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 04:22 PM   #7
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Use this form to submit him, and we'll take a look.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 04:29 PM   #8
ION_Ace
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U sure that form works ?
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 04:43 PM   #9
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yeah, i just tried it and it works.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 04:50 PM   #10
Kilham
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Just tested, it's working now OK. There may have been a problem with the server earlier.
Trouble is I'm flooded with forms at the moment so it may take a few days to clear them up. They're very messy you know......

<edit> ARRGH Raptor beat me to it - must type faster .
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 04:51 PM   #11
[AoP]Helios
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Get a life

To be honest m8y - you should go find another server - there are enough out there.

I am an admin, and I am fed up with whinging players having a go at me for banning them from the server.... The way I see it - I PAY for that server - if I don't want you on it (like u have pissed me or another of the ppl who pay for the server off, and are creating hassle) then why should I let you on it?

The fact that the admin in your case obviously didn't understand enough about banning ppl to kick you for good is his own problem (btw other admins - the secrets in the ip address - just ban 192.168.* for example - that will take care of dynamic ip's)

I don't see why you have ANY rights to play on a server I pay for - I let you in by choice, and if you are causing grief that detracts from my enjoyment of the game, then goodbye m8y.

Cheers,

Helios
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 05:01 PM   #12
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Banning 192.168.* is sooo dumb. Thats the host ID. Not only do you ban that player but everyone else using that host.

I disagree with your point about removing players just because its your server. If you do that then your not gonna get any players coming in the end. The ones that do will be crappy n00bs, but I guess thats the only way some people can boost their egos.

Sorry, but your post wasnt really thought out well
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 05:17 PM   #13
[AoP]Helios
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Yes - it is dumb - however, it is sometimes the only way to stop ppl just changing their IP address and coming back on (we had one who kept at it all night once - he couldn't take a hint)

And I know what you are trying to saying about ppl not coming to the server.

Yes - it probably didn't come out 2 well - but u must have got the point to have been replying

The point (lets see if I can make it clearer this time) is that if a sequence of events on a server stops the ppl who pay for the server enjoying it, then the easiest way to sort it (once it has got beyond a joke) is to ask the player to leave. I personally ask ppl to leave most of the time (unless really pissed off) - if they persist in being arseholes, then they get kicked - if they still don't get the message, then they get banned.

Btw - this is not a skills related thing either - I (and the other clan members) are not the best players in the world (hardly - we are the bottom of the clanbase leagues!) and enjoy playing other players - but when ppl come onto the server and delibrately cause strife, then why the hell shouldn't they be banned?

We actually get a lot of external players coming onto the server (when it is opened up) and they seem to enjoy playing with us, and coming back for more...

But this guys attitude that he seems to have a right to play on a particular server just gets my back up I am afraid...

Cheers,

Helios
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 05:29 PM   #14
SimplyCosmic
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Umm, Deepsy . . . ?

Like he said, it is his server, and therefore he can run it as he sees fit. Despite the rants about the "proper" way to run a server, there is no right or wrong way to do it.

Many people have different motives for running a server, and their visions of what the experience should be like. For some, they're out to run the most popular server possible. The problem with this is that you have to be extremely careful, run only popular maps, and keep up with the requests of the users. That's an aweful lot of work, and I don't think players know just how many silly demands, angry stupid complaints and other harrassment awaits the average server admin.

If he wants to run a server where only certain types of players are allowed, that's perfectly acceptable. Hell, it's somewhat desireable, because it means that there are going to be servers out there that cater to certain player types, rather than the eight-thousand generic servers that litter the browser.

Personally, I feel that placing an admin in the llama farm for banning you for any reason isn't a good thing. If an admin bans you, no matter how stupid the reason, you just move to a different server. You are a guest on his equipment, and if you don't agree with the way he or she runs things, then there's nothing stopping you from going somewhere that is more suited to your tastes.

Server admins get enough flak from users who seem to think they have every right to behave however they want on someone else's turf. They get absolutely no recognition for bothering to set up a place for us to play at their own expense.

Wasting any more time that in takes to leave a server you don't like to go find one that you do is just that, a waste.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 06:05 PM   #15
Gladiator
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[AoP]Helios,

If you are referring to banning people simply because they're playing better than yourself, than that is indeed a disgrace. This guy banned me because he made himself look like an ass. I didn't provoke him.
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Old 8th Jul 2001, 07:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimplyCosmic
Umm, Deepsy . . . ?

Like he said, it is his server, and therefore he can run it as he sees fit. Despite the rants about the "proper" way to run a server, there is no right or wrong way to do it.

Many people have different motives for running a server, and their visions of what the experience should be like. For some, they're out to run the most popular server possible. The problem with this is that you have to be extremely careful, run only popular maps, and keep up with the requests of the users. That's an aweful lot of work, and I don't think players know just how many silly demands, angry stupid complaints and other harrassment awaits the average server admin.

If he wants to run a server where only certain types of players are allowed, that's perfectly acceptable. Hell, it's somewhat desireable, because it means that there are going to be servers out there that cater to certain player types, rather than the eight-thousand generic servers that litter the browser.

Personally, I feel that placing an admin in the llama farm for banning you for any reason isn't a good thing. If an admin bans you, no matter how stupid the reason, you just move to a different server. You are a guest on his equipment, and if you don't agree with the way he or she runs things, then there's nothing stopping you from going somewhere that is more suited to your tastes.

Server admins get enough flak from users who seem to think they have every right to behave however they want on someone else's turf. They get absolutely no recognition for bothering to set up a place for us to play at their own expense.

Wasting any more time that in takes to leave a server you don't like to go find one that you do is just that, a waste.
I know chief. My point was half directed at him and half directed at the admin Glad was on about

Server admins can run it how they want, but their main aim is usually to have a popular server out there. Banning for little or no reason, or because a player is better than you isnt a good thing, but I didnt say that Helios ban for little or no reason I was just making a statement
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Old 9th Jul 2001, 05:34 AM   #17
[AoP]Helios
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Most clan server admins (like myself) wish to have a nice stable available environment in which the clan can play matches on. That is the whole point of a clan purchasing a server. It is not to make it the most popular server on the planet.

Like I said, we do enjoy others coming on and fragging with us...

If you go onto a private clan server, then you should be courteous to the clan you are a guest of, and things should be fine. If they ask you to leave (even if you don't agree with the reasons) then leave, and find somewhere else.

One thing that pisses me off about all this more than anything else, is ppl coming onto a server and spending all their time whineing about something or other - like one guy we had on joined a game, and then spent his entire time having a go at me for having the redeemer turned on in the level.

If you come onto someone elses server, you have no rights.

The best thing you can do is play with the ppl there, get to know them, have a chat between games, and have fun.

To be honest with you Gladiator - you should just be thankful that ppl out there do provide you with machines to play on - if you get kicked from one, go find somewhere else m8.

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering, our server is at unreal://130.88.202.190:8077

Feel free to come and frag with us....
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Old 9th Jul 2001, 05:51 AM   #18
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From experience, the best course of action is this:

1) Send a polite, non-argumentative, simple letter asking the server admin to look into the problem you had. Be humble, respectful and sincere.

2) Be ready to move on.

...or just skip ahead to 2)


I've actually had this happen to me once, and the server owner acknowledged that he had a slightly over-zealous admin and that he would lift the ban unless he found out via server logs that I was not sincere.
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Old 9th Jul 2001, 10:21 PM   #19
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Unfortunately, there are thousands of UT servers, each owned by a "unique" administrator. Each admin has his/her own personality, attitude, beliefs, ego, level of patience, etc. which would be difficult, if not impossible, to change. So the best bet is to not even try.

I've run into a few llamas on my server, but I haven't bothered to kickban them. Doing so would only encourage them to try and make even more trouble. I've found that when they are largely ignored, they go away. And we can always password it when we as a clan play.

If that server happens to be one of your favorites, it's time to make a new favorite from the 2568 other servers out there.

Good luck.
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Old 10th Jul 2001, 09:00 AM   #20
ION_Ace
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I had joined the team opposite the winners of the previous match, this in turn caused an imbalance in player numbers
Now what you did there was probably bad, most ppl agree to always join the team with less people on, no matter the skill. It only really becomes an issue if a whole clan is on 1 team, but then u might as well leave if it's their server and they want to be lame.

If a whole clan wants to beat up newbies, it's just pointless trying to convince them that that is lame, only thing I would do is ask em for a clanmatch if I had enough frends on icq and then beat em big time till they banned us all, just to make them feel 2 inches tall.
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