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Old 19th Jun 2001, 01:56 PM   #1
«]BALLISTIC[»
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Thumbs up What should we choose? The JSF or the Eurofighter?

At last! The netherland are replacing the 2 F-16 Squadrons.
(yes, only 2......Don't laugh i kill ya)

There are 4 possible options:
1. the Eurofighter
2. The JSF (Joint Strike Fighter)
3. The Dassault Rafale
4. The New SAAB Gripen
I don't like the Eurofighter...very manouvrable but No Stealth or STOL/VSTOL capabillities like the JSF or the SAAB Gripen.
I would choose the JSF or the Gripen..both Great aircraft!
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 02:04 PM   #2
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I would go with the F-22 Raptor - but since that isn't an option i would go with the JSF.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 02:48 PM   #3
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The JSF will be available around 2010 (if the US Congress don t cancel it).
The Rafale the Gripen and the Eurofighter are available.
The Eurofighter may be oversized for such a country.
The Rafale would be a good option.
But the Gripen is cheaper.
So i would choose the Gripen.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 03:46 PM   #4
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Unhappy

The best will be the Rafale. The problem is the cost..
We (french) want to purchase some bu twe don't have the money to do that !
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 04:40 PM   #5
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I'm with Spetnaz, you all should get some spies over here in the U.S. and steal the blueprints for the F-22. Stealth technology, super-cruise...damn that thing will be sweet. None of the aircraft you list seem particularly good. I'd choose a SU-27 Flanker or the MiG-29 Fulcrum.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 05:05 PM   #6
Harry_C
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The supercruise capability is already embeded in the
Snecma M-88 (Rafale 's reactor).
Besides French/European engineers don t need to copy US technology.
Let this task to Russians and Chineses.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 05:12 PM   #7
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The Chinese don't need to steal US technology either, Clinton already gave them everything they need.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 05:26 PM   #8
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Except some basic stuff like democracy ,human rights etc...
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 05:29 PM   #9
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Nope, we don't have enough of that here in the US to spare any.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 05:55 PM   #10
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I may be wrong but i think Nietzsche is written with a s ???
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 06:23 PM   #11
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Nope

Nietzche
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 06:24 PM   #12
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Rouge speaks wise words, the SU-27 Flanker and the MiG-29 Fulcrum are some of the best fighters in excistance, and doesent cost as much as a JSF.

They lack the long range strike capabillities of american fighters, but thats not really an issue, as the software/hardware is only allowed to be used by the US (damn bastards).

But both the SU-27 and the MIG-29 can fly circles around any American or euoropeean fighter, and the helmet mounted missile guide system is priceless in a dog fight.

There is really no reason for any country that issent USA to use US fighters, as they wont be allowed the only things that gives them atleast some advantedge, and forget all about europeean aircraft unless you are short on cash, and expecting a war any minute, go with the Russian fighters, its the best thing you can get!
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 06:29 PM   #13
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I think the best thing about the MiG-29 isn't its maneuverability but its infrared targeting system. Most aircraft use radar, which actually makes you visible at a greater range than you can see other aircraft. Infrared cannot be detected, so in its own way it is a form of stealth technology.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 06:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
forget all about europeean aircraft unless you are short on cash
Are you sure to be well documented about the European military airplane ?

For ex the Rafale is not what we can call a bad aircraft, guy ! And definitly not cheap !

Have a look here :
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/def...ubrique=rafale
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 06:44 PM   #15
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The Rafale isn't really all that great an aircraft imo. Its primary strength lies in its reliability, but as a multi-role aircraft it doesn't do any one thing exceptionally well. Goat is right, most European aircraft are too expensive for their performance. The Rafale, though, is more appropriatly priced than most European aircraft. Most European aircraft, the JSF being a great example, are a bit too liberal in their design to be effective.
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Old 19th Jun 2001, 10:10 PM   #16
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The IRST systems on the Mig-29 Fulcrum and the Su-27 Dlanker are very useful, especially in "sneaking" up on other aircraft without using radar.

Like Rogue said, their main weakness is their relatively short range. Their avionics are outdated as well, but there are new version such as the Mig-29SMT with greatly improved avionics and a Western style "Glass" cockpit.

The F-14D Tomcat has an IRST and the F-22 Raptor will have one as well. The Rafale has an electro-optical sensor that has an long range TV sensor built in if I remember correctly.
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Old 21st Jun 2001, 12:52 PM   #17
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Re: Mig 29

Reguarding that line about a Mig-29 or SU-27 being able to fly circles around any US fighter .... *LOL*!

I think we shot down enough Mig-29's in Iraq without a single kill in return to blow that statement out of the sky.


Anyways, the general consensus throughout the world (including european countries, israel (prolly the best air force around), etc, etc,) is that the Mig-29/SU-27 will out-fly an F-16 (assuming both pilots are of equal skill), but the F-15 will outfly both the 29 and the 27.

The Raptor, of course, will tear their balls off and have them for breakfast.

The IAF flies F-15's and F-16's pretty much exclusively. They could have purchased MiG's for a much cheaper price. They didn't. They went with what worked. 'nuff said.
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Old 21st Jun 2001, 01:10 PM   #18
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Exclamation

"I think we shot down enough Mig-29's in Iraq without a single kill in return to blow that statement out of the sky."

Wrong.

The SU-27 and MIG-29 can outmanuvre any US fighter, and their IR guide system along with the helmet mounted seaker gives a pilot in either the SU or the MIG the undesputed advantedge in a dog fight, and their interface is much simpler, the pilot in the russian plane can toggle any vital feature in half the time the pilot flying a US fighter can.
The only reason the US fighters have been able to take them out, is thanks to their better longrange weapons, they can hit the russian planes with pretty good accuracy before they can shoot back.

BUT, thouse longrange weapons are their only true advantedge when all comes to all, and thouse verry same weapons are exactly what any other country flying them are denied, making it a mood point for anyone who issent the US to buy/fly them.
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Old 21st Jun 2001, 01:22 PM   #19
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The F-15 can't come close to outflying a MiG-29 or an Su-27. However, in a dogfight between a MiG-29 and a F-15 the F-15 would probably come out the winner. But that wouldn't really be a fair assesment because the MiG-29 is more comparable to the F-16—its not an extrmely strong aircraft but its cheap so it can be mass produced. A MiG-29 has a MUCH shorter turn rate than an F-16. In a dogfight between a F-16 and a MiG-29 the Infrared search and track system on the MiG-29 amlost guaruntees success. The MiG could detect the F-16 long before the F-16 could detect it. Your analogy to the Gulf War doesn't really work out well, because the Coalition air forces used MiG-29's too, and they consistently emerged victorious just as other fighters did. The most likely reason for the Iraqi's losing so many ships is that they had a poorly trained military with low morale, which is the reason we won the ground war, too. The F-22 would definitly overpower the Fulcrum and the Flanker (the Flanker is one of the reasons the U.S. air force needs the F-22, its at least as good as current U.S. fighters, if not better), but it will cost a pretty penny compared to the MiG-29.
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Old 21st Jun 2001, 01:54 PM   #20
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Y not fly from your PC? UCAV

Although this one isn't on the list either, it promises to be one of the most efficient in terms of saving trained pilots, plus there's always the chance some hopped up script-kiddie might hack into the control system and take it for a joy ride...yahoo!

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/...e_990412n1.htm
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