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Old 13th Jun 2001, 09:33 PM   #1
Techno JF
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2d shape editor problem, but first...

I am dealing with a really weird problem with my 2d shape editor. It's so weird that it's practically indescribable by me. What
went wrong with extruding this shape? I have already created 16 of 24 shapes with the 2d shape editor, but I've never encountered this problem.

Anyway, someone once said that a picture is worth a thousand words, so here's an interesting one (zipped, that is). I would have attached this as an image, but I couldn't figure out how, so could someone answer that question too?
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 12:44 AM   #2
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I don't know what the problem might be, you might try making the shape face a diffrent direction, then rotate it. You could also try making the shape in segments. If you want I could try making the shape myself, just tell me the grid size you used.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 02:39 AM   #3
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Ok the problem was caused by the closeness of the arms to the main part of the shape. All you need to do is extend the arms a notch.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 03:06 AM   #4
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And here is the fixed shape.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 07:27 AM   #5
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Thanks. Actually, the brush was scaled so that the width of the vertical bar was only four unreal units (I am planning on using these symbols as buttons). I looked at your piece, and I'm glad that I know the answer now, but I already found a way around it. I used my screen shot as a guide to create the "arrowhead," then I just created a bar of the right length and deintersected. Thanks anyway though.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 07:49 AM   #6
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images are attached exactly the same way as any other files...it says the accepted formats under the attach field.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 10:30 AM   #7
Techno JF
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Thumbs up

Thanks again for the info on posting images.

Oh, here's another question about the same part of my level. The four people who downloaded the editor shot I took should notice that in some cases the polycount and the node count of the symbols I've already created is already rather high. (And I still have seven more shapes to create!)

I am wondering: if I use semisolid brushes to obscure the player's view of different areas of the room from different angles, will the engine try to render solid shapes on the other side of the semisolid brush (assume the semisolid is meant to be opaque)? I don't have much experience with semisolids, so I'm not just going to take for granted that they do until someone else says so.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 12:15 PM   #8
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Unfortunately, semi-solids can't be used to block the view...the renderer sees through semi-solid geometry.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 12:43 PM   #9
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Oh well. Thanks Chris (as well as everyone else who posted on this thread). I'll just have to get creative with the floor plan of this particular room then.

ONE last thing (sorry, but I tend to ask questions as I think of them): can I attach non-solid non-transparent sheets to AttachMovers? I recently read a tutorial on the use of AttachMovers, and it used body armor as an example, but I really want to know if pretty much any actor can be used for this purpose (safely, that is).

If AttachMovers work like this, I might even be able to try more advanced effects, like a Tentacle that seems to move around by itself on a ceiling, or a chain of AttachMovers to simulate a mover stopping in an intermediate keyframe.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 01:00 PM   #10
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Ya just make sure the Attach Tag under the movement properties is the same as the mover. And to make it stop at a certain keyframe use the Elevator Mover.
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Old 14th Jun 2001, 09:35 PM   #11
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Wink

Thanks Dexter, that's pretty much what the tutorial at UnrealEd.exe said.

Unfortunately, as far as Elevator Movers are concerned, it takes either extra scripting or a complex apparatus to make them work in, say, a scripted event. For example, if Elevator Triggers worked like this automatically, a mapper could just enter the tags of a single Elevator Mover's triggers into a Stochastic Trigger and get a really cool background animation out of the mover.
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Old 15th Jun 2001, 01:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisToth.hu
Unfortunately, semi-solids can't be used to block the view...the renderer sees through semi-solid geometry.
Are you sure about that?

I just made a little test by sticking my nose up to a semisolid brush. The node/polycount dropped to 1, every other stat I could find dropped to zero or close to zero. When comparing to a piece of solid geometry I couldn't get the values any lower.

To me it seems like any surface that is not transparent or masked will be good for blocking the players view.

Comments?
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Old 15th Jun 2001, 11:43 AM   #13
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its true if u cant see it its not being rendered. after u see it however it is rendered for like 3 seconds because of the videobuffer.
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Old 16th Jun 2001, 12:33 PM   #14
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Not sure I understand Dex.

My point is: What makes it different from solids when stat global and stat fps displayed in the hud are the same?

I have seen this description of how semis work posted on several forums and even in some tutorials but as long as the in game stats are not affected it makes no sense, am I missing some vital info here?

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Old 16th Jun 2001, 01:50 PM   #15
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You've misunderstood me...because I didn't make it clear.
Again, a little posting in the evening without drinking enough coffee.

So...
Try this:
-Open up UEd and subtract a cube
-Add in a nice cylindrical pillar into the middle of the room. It should touch the floor.
-Rebuild
-If it is solid check the Z/P view and you'll see a lot of cuts on the floor. This will mean a higher nodecount in the game, more complex BSP structure and you'll get a bigger chance of having BSP holes.

-Turn it into Semi-Solid
-Rebuild
-The cuts will disappear.

-If you check the pillars interior in ghost mode you'll see that when the pillar is solid the surface where the pillar touches the ground is removed. If it is semi-solid then it's still there.
It's like having a couple of sheets there which have collision. This is why they can be used for ICHs without having the edges separated from the opening. See, you have the invisble collision hull which normally would remove the touching areas, leving BSP holes/HOMs but as you've used Semi-solids the touching surfaces will remain there. So the main concept is that they are added on the end of the GeoRebuild phase and the don't really affect solid geometry.

You would say Great, then why don't we use them all over the map.

-They can't be used as trim. If the outer surface lines up with the solid surface it will be removed leaving the Solid surface there. (No effect)
-No subtractions through them. (They are applied after the Subtracted brushes...)
-They don't create cuts on solid geometry but they do create on other Semi-solid geometry and on Non-Solid Geometry.
-If they are used along with Non-Solids they can interfere easily and will cause solidity-loss on walls/floors. (You'll be surprised when you fall out of the level )
-They can't define zones.
-If different parts of the brush fall into different BSP Hulls then some sides will be missing. (They are fixed during the Optimalization phase most of the time though...)


That's it...I hope it made things clear. If not, then ask what's not clear enough.

(I hope I haven't forgotten anything...)
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Old 17th Jun 2001, 07:12 AM   #16
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So it was just a misunderstanding.

I knew all that about semis, guess you could have saved yourself the trouble of writing that long reply .
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Old 17th Jun 2001, 08:27 AM   #17
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Argh!
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Old 18th Jun 2001, 02:45 PM   #18
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Well Chris, I didn't know all that, so I'm glad you wrote it. Thanks.
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Old 18th Jun 2001, 05:26 PM   #19
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Hey, I'm happy that I could help.
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