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Old 4th Feb 2000, 10:44 PM   #1
Derek
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U.S. Gun Laws

Ok, right now I am in Lima, Peru, so I really wouldn't know, but what exactly are the gun laws in the U.S.?

I mean, can a regular joe just go out and buy an M-16 or MP5?

Class III license? How do you go out and get one?

What is all this gun fair business in which teenagers can buy full-auto weaponry?

If I have a gun of my own, is it legal to shoot it in my house? (as in: a basement shooting range)

Whats the deal on carrying concealed weapons.

What are the procedures, andnecessary ages for a gun license?

what are the types of gun licenses?

Are those dinky .22 rifles considered firearms? How come some kids have them like they were bb guns?

Lots of questions, but I would really like to know, because right now I am completely in the dark.
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 01:10 AM   #2
Catalyst
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

OK, let me try to answer these to the best of my knowledge:

>> I mean, can a regular joe just go out and buy an M-16 or MP5?

No. Fully automatic weapons are illegal to purchase or possess in the U.S. However, you can own an AR-15, which is a semi-automatic version of the M-16.

>> Class III license? How do you go out and get one?

It's the license to deal in fully automatic weapons. Only for law-enforcement and military personnel. You can register to get one of these as a dealer (I think Repairman_Jack has one [img]/infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif[/img] )

>> What is all this gun fair business in which teenagers can buy full-auto weaponry?

They can't. If they have it, it was illegally obtained.

>> If I have a gun of my own, is it legal to shoot it in my house? (as in: a basement shooting range)

Possibly. It might break some kind of housing code, but if you had good sound-proofing and it didn't piss off your neighbors you could probably get away with it.

>>Whats the deal on carrying concealed weapons.

It varies state-to-state. Some states it's altogether illegal, others you must file a permit with the city to carry a concealed weapon.

>> What are the procedures, andnecessary ages for a gun license?

Again, it varies state to state. Some states only require you to be like 16, but for most you must be 18 years old. Some states require a gun license. Most do not.

>> what are the types of gun licenses?

Not sure on this one. I just thought there was one.

>> Are those dinky .22 rifles considered firearms? How come some kids have them like they were bb guns?

.22 weapons are considered firearms. A lot of kids have them for hunting and are given to them by their dad or something. I don't think there are any less restrictions on .22 weapons as any other non-automatic weapon. Maybe someone can correct me on this.

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 01:31 AM   #3
Derek
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Thanks, I actually have some idea on the whole U.S. gun thing now.

I saw a documentary on 20/20 or some show like that where they got some teens to go to a Las Vegas gun fair with some cash, they came out with some type of M-16 and some handguns.

Are those kits that allow you take take a semi and make it full auto legal?

What's the deal with militias?

Here (Peru), I can get my hands on a Berreta 92F for about 500 dollars, and a glock (not sure of the model, but its one of the smaller ones) for $425. Prices the same over there?


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Old 5th Feb 2000, 01:32 AM   #4
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

You have to be 21 to own a pistol and they do a background check. In fact in pennsylvania I'm pretty sure you have to be 21 to purchase or own any firearm... but I definately know you must be 21 to purchase a pistol. Military personal really don't get any special benefits. If in wartime you kill someone with a weapon you baught its considered murder... even if they are the enemy... when snipers join and they have a rifle of their own the US military buys it off of them and then issues it to them. To hunt in Pennsylvania you must be at least 16 and go through a safety course which is usually a weekend long ordeal.

As far as I know nobody under 21 can get a carry and conceal license any ways I strongly doubt they would have adequate use to carry and conceal a firearm of any sort.
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 03:09 AM   #5
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Yes, I have a Class III (and a CCW)...but, in most states you don't need one--- http://www.funsupply.com/firearms/fullauto.html

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 04:15 AM   #6
Catalyst
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

With all the gun crackdowns in the U.S. as of late, I'm surprised you can still get away with some of this stuff.

I guess the age varies state to state too...I'm pretty sure it's 18 in California.
http://cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/guns/

[This message has been edited by Catalyst (edited 02-05-2000).]
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 10:03 AM   #7
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

I can't believe the amount of misinformation presented here on this issue. I'm Canadian and I know more about US gun laws than the average American gun owner. Corrections:

> No. Fully automatic weapons are illegal to purchase or possess in the U.S.

Absolutely 100% DEAD WRONG. Full automatics, sawed off shotguns, suppressors, mustard gas grenades, and 105mm howitzers are ALL legally obtainable, depending on whether or not the particular state allows the ownership of NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934) weaponry.

Each NFA weapon requires a transfer tax to be paid on it when transferred. Machine guns, suppressors, destructive devices (DD), short-barrelled shotguns (SBS), and short-barrelled rifles (SBR), all require a $200 transfer tax. Any other weapons (AOW) like smoothbore pistols and pen guns are a $5 tax. Manufacturing tax is $200. To purchase, you need to submit a form 3/4 to the ATF with fingerprint card, passport photos, CLEO signoff, and cheque for the transfer tax. Typical turnaround is 3 to 6 months, sometimes shorter, often a LOT longer.

Machine guns can no longer be manufactured for civilian purchase. All machine guns in private hands had to have been registered before May of 1986 and are considered "transferable". Pre-May dealer samples are transferable only to class 02 FFL/class 07 SOT holders, but the holder can retain the firearm after they relinquish their permits. Post-May dealer samples are transferable as above but must be transfered to another dealer if the current holder gives up their licenses. Post-May samples also require the transferee to have a PD demo request letter on official department letterhead.

Suppressors, SBR's and SBS's can be manufactured by ANYONE so long as they submit a Form 1 with transfer tax and relevant info. Destructive devices can only be manufactured by Type 10 (?) FFL's, which is Manufacturer of Destructive Devices. DD's cover explosive ordnance, poison gas explosives, and large-bore firearms (any firearm over .50 cal).

And to prove this isn't all BS culled from my imagination, visit Tom Bowers' Politically Incorrect Machine Gun Pages and click on the NFA Ad Board. M-11/9's, M-16's, MP-5's, 1919A4's, all manner of machine guns and nasty toys to be had. Pay special attention to the prices however.

> Possibly. It might break some kind of housing code, but if you had good sound-proofing and it didn't piss off your neighbors you could probably get away with it.

Usually it depends on the local ordinances, although from what I understand in most areas you can fire your gun anywhere you want so long as you're not endangering anyone or causing a disturbance. I know many American NFA owners who routinely shoot their suppressed machine guns in their backyards (with suitable backstops of course).

> Again, it varies state to state. Some states only require you to be like 16

Minimum age to purchase a firearm is 18, as defined by federal law. Some states have it higher, usually 21.

As for whether .22's are considered firearms, that depends on how you define "firearm". In Canada, a firearm is any barrelled weapon that is capable of discharging a projectile that can cause serious bodily harm or death. There are exceptions to this, the biggest one being that if the muzzle velocity does not exceed 500 fps the device is NOT considered a firearm. That means most BB and pellet, airsoft, and paintball guns are exempt. However, this also means that 40mm grenade launchers are exempt. I know of a dealer in Ontario that has three genuine Colt M203's for sale at $1200 a piece, and absolutely NO paperwork is required. Even a 10 year old can go in and purchase it. I plan on ordering one soon for my AR-15, just as a cool accessory and collector's item. Explosive grenades are obviously not available but there are inert training rounds around.

Hey Repairman_Jack, if you'd like I can get one of these launchers for ya (works out to around $850 US), strip all the parts off the receiver and send them to you as a complete parts kit. I'd offer the whole thing to you but I've asked around and apparently M203's don't meet the ATF's "sporting use" criteria, and even the stripped receiver isn't importable. Let me know if you're interested.

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 10:03 AM   #8
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

I can't believe the amount of misinformation presented here on this issue. I'm Canadian and I know more about US gun laws than the average American gun owner. Corrections:

> No. Fully automatic weapons are illegal to purchase or possess in the U.S.

Absolutely 100% DEAD WRONG. Full automatics, sawed off shotguns, suppressors, mustard gas grenades, and 105mm howitzers are ALL legally obtainable, depending on whether or not the particular state allows the ownership of NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934) weaponry.

Each NFA weapon requires a transfer tax to be paid on it when transferred. Machine guns, suppressors, destructive devices (DD), short-barrelled shotguns (SBS), and short-barrelled rifles (SBR), all require a $200 transfer tax. Any other weapons (AOW) like smoothbore pistols and pen guns are a $5 tax. Manufacturing tax is $200. To purchase, you need to submit a form 3/4 to the ATF with fingerprint card, passport photos, CLEO signoff, and cheque for the transfer tax. Typical turnaround is 3 to 6 months, sometimes shorter, often a LOT longer.

Machine guns can no longer be manufactured for civilian purchase. All machine guns in private hands had to have been registered before May of 1986 and are considered "transferable". Pre-May dealer samples are transferable only to class 02 FFL/class 07 SOT holders, but the holder can retain the firearm after they relinquish their permits. Post-May dealer samples are transferable as above but must be transfered to another dealer if the current holder gives up their licenses. Post-May samples also require the transferee to have a PD demo request letter on official department letterhead.

Suppressors, SBR's and SBS's can be manufactured by ANYONE so long as they submit a Form 1 with transfer tax and relevant info. Destructive devices can only be manufactured by Type 10 (?) FFL's, which is Manufacturer of Destructive Devices. DD's cover explosive ordnance, poison gas explosives, and large-bore firearms (any firearm over .50 cal).

And to prove this isn't all BS culled from my imagination, visit Tom Bowers' Politically Incorrect Machine Gun Pages and click on the NFA Ad Board. M-11/9's, M-16's, MP-5's, 1919A4's, all manner of machine guns and nasty toys to be had. Pay special attention to the prices however.

> Possibly. It might break some kind of housing code, but if you had good sound-proofing and it didn't piss off your neighbors you could probably get away with it.

Usually it depends on the local ordinances, although from what I understand in most areas you can fire your gun anywhere you want so long as you're not endangering anyone or causing a disturbance. I know many American NFA owners who routinely shoot their suppressed machine guns in their backyards (with suitable backstops of course).

> Again, it varies state to state. Some states only require you to be like 16

Minimum age to purchase a firearm is 18, as defined by federal law. Some states have it higher, usually 21.

As for whether .22's are considered firearms, that depends on how you define "firearm". In Canada, a firearm is any barrelled weapon that is capable of discharging a projectile that can cause serious bodily harm or death. There are exceptions to this, the biggest one being that if the muzzle velocity does not exceed 500 fps the device is NOT considered a firearm. That means most BB and pellet, airsoft, and paintball guns are exempt. However, this also means that 40mm grenade launchers are exempt. I know of a dealer in Ontario that has three genuine Colt M203's for sale at $1200 a piece, and absolutely NO paperwork is required. Even a 10 year old can go in and purchase it. I plan on ordering one soon for my AR-15, just as a cool accessory and collector's item. Explosive grenades are obviously not available but there are inert training rounds around.

Hey Repairman_Jack, if you'd like I can get one of these launchers for ya (works out to around $850 US), strip all the parts off the receiver and send them to you as a complete parts kit. I'd offer the whole thing to you but I've asked around and apparently M203's don't meet the ATF's "sporting use" criteria, and even the stripped receiver isn't importable. Let me know if you're interested.

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 11:56 AM   #9
Repairman_Jack
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

I've got five S&W 37mm launchers that I'm refurbing for the Texas Dept. of Public Safety. The 203 is a little heavy for the average folks I get stuff for. I don't personally own a lot of heavy weapons, too expensive to own legally, and the ATF watches me like a hawk [img]/infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 01:24 PM   #10
Jikida
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Sorry but I must say this. The gun laws in USA are ****ed up. What does a person do with a machine gun? I personally know something about guns and after I turn 20, i will know more( at the age of 18-21 you have to go to Army in Finland. I`m thinking about joining a sort of navy seal-force.

It isn`t like any country would attack USA or anything. You don`t do **** with a m16 for self-defense. I wouldn`t wonder a bit if you americans went hunting with a bazooka.
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 01:24 PM   #11
Jikida
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Sorry but I must say this. The gun laws in USA are ****ed up. What does a person do with a machine gun? I personally know something about guns and after I turn 20, i will know more( at the age of 18-21 you have to go to Army in Finland. I`m thinking about joining a sort of navy seal-force.

It isn`t like any country would attack USA or anything. You don`t do **** with a m16 for self-defense. I wouldn`t wonder a bit if you americans went hunting with a bazooka.
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 06:22 PM   #12
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

I guess its kind of like collecting cars. You don't really need a Jaguar AND a Ferrari, but it is a lot of fun to drive both of them.

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 08:00 PM   #13
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Funny, I have heard a lot about it being illegal to buy fully automatic guns here in the US. I'm talking to you, Mr. Smart Canadian. Anyone I ask say full auto is illegal. I do however have a book called "should we have gun control?" and it has a page with a ton of neat little gun pics and says at the bottom:

The Senate voted to ban these weapons in the 1989 Anti-Drug, Assault Weapons Limitation Act. In 1991, a similar bill was defeated in the House of Representatives, so the ban did not become law. Such weapons are still legal.

The guns shown are: AK-47 (awwwww yeah...), Steyr AUG (surprisingly good in Rogue Spear), Mac-11 and Mac-10 (beat the Uzi's by a mile), UZI Pistol, TEC-9 (dirty lil ganster gun), UZI Carbine (UZI w/stock and long barrel + Carbine rounds) FNC, FN-FAL, Colt AR-15, Berretta AR-70, Galil (Israel's brand!), Colt CAR-15 (best in Rainbow Six), Striker 12/Streetsweeper (cheesy, but the only one that looks most like a shotgun.)

I don't know who's side I'm on =p
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 08:36 PM   #14
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Last time I answer any questions on this board [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 08:47 PM   #15
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Gryphon: Just one question. I don't know if I'm missing here, but if you go to that CNN address I posted up there and click on the US gun laws state-by-state, you'll see one of the criteria is:

Juvenile Sale or Transfer Law -- bars the sale or transfer of specified guns by anyone to a person under 18.

However, not all states have this law. Doesn't that mean you don't have to 18 to purchase a weapon? If there was a federal law, why would states even need this law, since federal law supercedes state law?
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Old 5th Feb 2000, 09:06 PM   #16
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Well, I did a little more research and discovered this:

Federal law [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1)] prohibits any federally licensed firearms dealer from selling or delivering handguns to a person under the age of 21. However, the federal juvenile possession ban [18 U.S.C. 922 (x)] makes if unlawful for persons under the age of 18 from possessing handguns. Unless prohibited by state law, sales of handguns to persons between the ages of 18 and 21 take place in the secondary or private market.

I think I'm clear enough on this now. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

If you're interested, you can read the specific code:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html

(Check section b)

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 09:29 PM   #17
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

The kicker is I could not SELL a firearm to one of those "minors", but I could SELL one to their mother, father, uncle, etc. and they could GIVE them it. And as I long as I could prove that I had no knowledge of that second transaction, I would have commited no crime legally, ethically that's another kettle of kimchi. I don't make the laws, I just obey them.

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 10:19 PM   #18
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Jikida, you're right, absolutely NOBODY needs a machine gun. Nobody on this earth needs a gun at all. On that same token, YOU don't NEED a computer. YOU don't NEED a car. YOU don't NEED any of the toys and interesting things you own. The only thing a human NEEDS is food, shelter and clothing. Everything else is just a toy.

I'm guessing you've never shot a machine gun before, thus you don't know how goddamn fun it is. It's been described as being "the most fun you can have with your pants on". People own machine guns because they WANT them, just like Jay Leno WANTS all those fancy cars he owns.

And Jaguar, go visit the site I mentioned above. Whoever is telling you that full auto is illegal is completely misinformed. Here, click this link:

Subguns.com WTS/WTT HK MP5A3

What state are you in? I'll tell you if you'd be eligible to buy it.

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 10:19 PM   #19
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Jikida, you're right, absolutely NOBODY needs a machine gun. Nobody on this earth needs a gun at all. On that same token, YOU don't NEED a computer. YOU don't NEED a car. YOU don't NEED any of the toys and interesting things you own. The only thing a human NEEDS is food, shelter and clothing. Everything else is just a toy.

I'm guessing you've never shot a machine gun before, thus you don't know how goddamn fun it is. It's been described as being "the most fun you can have with your pants on". People own machine guns because they WANT them, just like Jay Leno WANTS all those fancy cars he owns.

And Jaguar, go visit the site I mentioned above. Whoever is telling you that full auto is illegal is completely misinformed. Here, click this link:

Subguns.com WTS/WTT HK MP5A3

What state are you in? I'll tell you if you'd be eligible to buy it.

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Old 5th Feb 2000, 11:20 PM   #20
Repairman_Jack
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Re: U.S. Gun Laws

Actually It can be easier to obtain a SMG than a Concealed Carry Weapons permit.
In other info on a Class III Federal Firearms license-- http://www.recguns.com/IIF1.html
Check it out its pretty interesting reading.
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[This message has been edited by Repairman_Jack (edited 02-05-2000).]
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