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Old 13th Jul 2000, 01:40 AM   #1
Alpha_9
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Gun regulation

I'm curious to know the opinions of people on this board over the issue of gun control. That is, how much the state should regulate or control the ability of the private citizen to own firearms. It's a big issue here in the U.S.

We all love shooting our virtual guns on our computers, but how do you feel about private gun ownership in the real world?

Please vote for the level of regulation you most closely agree with:
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Old 13th Jul 2000, 02:26 AM   #2
Keiichi
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Woohoo! I'm the only one that's voted so far. It's 100% for me, baby!

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 04:20 AM   #3
Christopher Webb
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My opinions lie somewhere in the vague regions between 2 & 3

My god, a poll that makes sense? Starts looking around for any developing wormholes.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 04:20 AM   #4
Christopher Webb
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My opinions lie somewhere in the vague regions between 2 & 3

My god, a poll that makes sense? Starts looking around for any developing wormholes.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 04:33 AM   #5
DeadeyeDan[ToA]
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Well, I would be ranting and screaming right now about #2 being in the lead, but there's another debate taking up my time and I do have to sleep. I really hate it when this happens, no debates for months and then 2 that I feel adamently about (illegalization of OBJECTS -not actions- made out to be "evil" by the media) right on top of eachother.

I voted for #4, little restriction, because beyond restricting guns that have no serial #'s/had the serial #'s filed off, gun control doesn't do jack **** besides hurt law abiding citizens. That's all you really need to keep the criminals from buying legal guns- illegal guns are already cheaper, just make legal equal tracable by law enforcement, and any criminal worth his salt will buy black market (full auto AK's for 50 freaking bucks!). I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, but since there's been no points layed out to counter, I'll just post this link: http://www.nraila.org

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 06:03 AM   #6
Lance201
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guns

to many stupid people out there... so no guns at all for civilians

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 07:24 AM   #7
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If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

That about sums up my position on the whole thing.
Its just as easy to stab somebody with a kitchen knife or smash them over the head with a hamer, its not like guns make it easier to kill somebody. They just make it easier to defend yourself against petty thugs.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 08:05 AM   #8
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In the Netherlands the general opinion is No guns, No trouble. People don't feel the need to protect themselves with a gun...I mean it's very hard to get firearms in my country, and people don't think your cool when you know stuff about them let alone HAVE one. I know that in Amerika it's completely different, but wouldn't it be possible *someday* that every normal American is firearm free?

I'm seriously interested...

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 09:09 AM   #9
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Weapons of destruction will always be present in society. They have been through out the ages. As we move out of the industrial age and more steadily into the information age, we're trying to police people with Gestapo tactics, taking away basic freedoms and placing them under constant surveillance. Anybody notice that this century has featured massive ethnic cleansings, urban warfare, and all that crap? More so than any other time period. Yes, I know there have been many, many bloody wars, but this century alone has by far been the worse. Why? Because governments want all the power to themselves, and they're taking away the simplest things from the people. And since the president, prime minister, or premier is no different than you and I, no more or less a human being, people are going to fight back, that one man has the power to tell millions and billions of people what they can and cannot do to themselves and with themselves. And that pisses people off.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 10:10 AM   #10
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Well, that's a nice story and an even nicer political statement, but what about my question: Do you think it's possible for American citicents to leave firearms for what they are...? I know there allways will be guns around, but my statement is that the normal, regular man doesn't NEED one.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 10:59 AM   #11
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If only the entire world was one big Switzerland.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 11:02 AM   #12
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Well, not being from America myself, I can't really speak for them, but I'm sure its pretty safe to assume the American (ie: Statesfolk) populace realize that firearms are weapons for killing and wounding, and not, say, sex objects for hot oily lovin'.

Just because somebody has a shotgun or other firearm in their house does not make them inherently evil, blood thirsty, murderous pornographers. They may go hunting. They may just want to protect their family from bands of roaming thugs or marauding pirates.

And secondly of all, knowing about guns and owning them does not make you cool in North America either. Walking down the street and talking about guns, people will think you're a lunatic. Equally so, if you walk down the street and talk about something like wrenches or TIME magazine, you will also be considered insane. You probably won't be considered insane if you're talking to somebody about them, and even less so if that person actually cares enough to talk back.

Guns are powerful tools, and knowledge is even more so. Knowing when, where, why and how to use the proper tool is all that matters. If you act like an idiot, you'll be treated as one. Everybody in North America recognizes that, except the insane. But they're just crazy.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 11:32 AM   #13
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sex with a shotgun...hmmm never thought about a shotgun that way.... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 11:39 AM   #14
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The normal, regular man needs a gun when he's woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of a window crashing downstairs, not knowing whether it's an intruder simply looking to steal his TV, or possibly looking to rape his wife and hurt his children as well, and the police can't be there until it's too late.

As long as guns exist in a society, and they certainly exist aplenty in the U.S., I believe regular citizens must be given the right to protect themselves from armed criminals. I believe they must at least have that choice. The police can't be everywhere at all times. Unless a way is found to take all guns away from criminals, you can't take them away from law abiding citizens. It leaves a very unfair playing field in my view.
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Old 13th Jul 2000, 12:33 PM   #15
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I'm reminded about a story I saw on the news a few years back. A Japanese exchange student and a couple of his freinds were out looking for a party. They didn't know the address, but they thought they could find the place anyway. However, the Japanese boy mistakenly knocked on the wrong door, and when it opened, he tried to come in. Instead of a party, he saw the barrel of a shotgun shoved in his face. He tried to explain that they were here for a party and that they must have the wrong house, but his english wasn't too good. So, the owner of the gun, not being able to understand him and seeing only a dangerous foreigner (and after all, isn't EVERY foreigner evil by nature?), promptly blew his head off "in defense of his family". It wasn't until later that he realized his mistake.

Imagine having to tell that boys parents back in Japan (a country were guns are outlawed) that some trigger-happy American had made a snap judgment, and their son was now dead. That he had been killed for something as innocent as knocking on the wrong door. They couldn't possibly understand why. If that man hadn't had a gun, chances are that they could have resolved that misunderstanding peacfully, and it wouldn't have resulted in a 17-year-old boy lying dead in the street.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 03:19 PM   #16
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And for every 1 dead japanese kid, there are 1000 cases of guns actually preventing bodily harm/property damage.

Those "1 in a 1,000,000" stories don't do much other than bring a tear to the eyes of naive over-emotional bleeding hearts.

Keyword: Naive

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 05:25 PM   #17
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Now, don't get me wrong. I think guns are great - in the hands of professionals. But there are so many untrained, ignorant, and/or irresponsible individuals in America who, like in my previous post, would rather shoot first and ask questions later. I believe we should focus more on educating people about the consequenses of using a gun. It's a commitment. Once you pull that trigger, you have to live with the results.

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 06:13 PM   #18
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Well in the Netherlands nobody sticks a gun in the nose of any criminal and still crimerate is lower than in the US. I'm not saying this is all due to the 5th amendment (or however that's written) but it SURE is one of the biggest reasons...

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Old 13th Jul 2000, 06:35 PM   #19
DeadeyeDan[ToA]
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"But there are so many untrained, ignorant, and/or irresponsible individuals in America who, like in my previous post, would rather shoot first and ask qeustions later."

How many exactly? I believe the average person who has bought a gun legally is fairly responsible- all the ones I've met have been (that number is probably around 50 by now, not including people that I never realized were gun-owners). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education, but the media-hyped image of the "redneck irrisponsible gunowner" is getting on my nerves.

Timmie: How can you be so sure? If our country adopted gun control like yours has, crime would skyrocket- here in the US, over 2 million people protect themselves with firearms every year. If your country is anything like Japan, you had lower crimerates than ours long before you illegalized guns. Ours is just a more violent society, and there are hundreds upon hundreds of possible reasons for our higher crime rates. For example- our justice system is turning into a big joke, cold blooded murderers live better than homeless people, at the top of a prison hierarchy, and if bored they can work out at better gyms than my school has, play sports, and in some cases watch television... wheras in Japan it's anything but funny: 95% of the accused just up and confess, usually do to a little physical persuasion on the part of the police force.

You can say lots of things about gun-owner-control and crime rates to compare 2 countries, but you usually aren't saying anything at all: there is no direct relation between gun-owner-control and crime. Sure, you and Japan may have less crime than us, but I'd bet good money Switzerland (which has much more of a gun-culture than the US does), has even less crime. And then there's countries with very strict gun-owner-control and amazing amounts of crime, like Russia and Italy- the US beats those 2, and yes, even Great Britain (when including Wales). That's right, believe it or not, peaceful old Great Britain, so proud of it's "civilized" control over it's subjects, has higher per-capita crime rates than the US does. And to add insult to injury, theirs is going up while ours is decreasing.

(to any that were confused: yes, by gun-owner-control I mean gun control, it's just a much more accurate name)
_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

[This message was edited by DeadeyeDan[ToA] on Jul 13, 2000 at 18:56.]

[This message was edited by DeadeyeDan[ToA] on Jul 13, 2000 at 19:00.]
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Old 13th Jul 2000, 10:27 PM   #20
MiscMan
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Let's see here. Guns are very powerful tools, weapons, and threats. All in all, the gun changed history in a remarkable way. And in today's society(american), guns are still vital. Here's a story, that actual happened with my step-father a long time ago:

When he was young, his father heard the screen door of his house open. Shooook. put-put-put of feet going through his house. His father went to the closet, opened the door, and got his rifle. All he did was cock the gun, shoook-chuck, and the guy ran away.

Imagine that. A threat of a person's life is so great that it only takes a distinctive sound to scare him.

More on guns specifically. Why would i want an M16? Or an AK? I mean, how often will i be surrounded by the maphia, or attacked by a large gang? There is a point to where you can't really have such powerful, and somewhat one-dimensional weapons in such a diverse society as America. I dont know about other countries, but america has no real tradition or culture that would put down guns or crime. I mean, crime is considered cool in some places, actually a lot. Especially among young people(high school-ish). Of course, not many people do it, but often times idolize people who talk about crime or acting in a criminal fashion. Usually musicicians or bands.

I would have to agree that not only rednecks have guns. In fact, if they did, they would probably be responsible.

That it?

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