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Old 24th Mar 2001, 12:06 PM   #21
Monk_Zero
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I believe he means that to determine the effect on someone you would have to follow this kind of gate list
1) Ammunition being fired
2) Distance to the target
3) Location from the axis of the target (to determine spin)
4) Calculate if the bullet penetrates (because this will lead to little or no change in the target's intertia)
5) Add this value to the any other inertia from previous bullet hits that the target has taken in the past second
6) Add in the reflex actions caused by the target when hit, which from the training I've had is the vast majority of all visual effects of people being hit by bullets, and develop a required animation for the target
7) Load the required animation and play through the necessary frames
8) Repeat as necessary

Remember, assuming that you're strong enough, that hitting a book with a bat will send it flying across the floor. Stabbing it with a sword will put a hole in it. Bullets intend to damage a particular portion of the pages in the center of the book, so it is useful to have them behave as swords. Excuse the poor analogy. But the weapon that should have the most kinetic impact on a target, a shotgun, causes many tagets to drop like a sack of potatoes.

Maybe all you want to have is shock effects from being hit.
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Old 24th Mar 2001, 12:10 PM   #22
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sosilencer, I said a paintball gun on full power. Field rules force you to adjust your co2 pressure to 300ft/sec. Put it to full power you can have it go REALLY fast. You can punch a hole in a piece of thin wood or make dents in a thin metal plate with a full power paintgun. Ive been hit with a full power paintball, it DID push me back a bit. It hurt like hell too.

The_Fur, my point still remains. Getting hit by a bullet will affect you. In INF a bullet hit only takes away health, nothing else. I am sick of shooting people at point blank and have them run, jump, turn and shoot me back. In RL you would not be able to do that (unless you got his by a small calibre.. 9mm or so.. but a rifle bullet from an m-16? from an AK? Hah! First shot should leave them wriggling in the ground)

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Old 24th Mar 2001, 12:20 PM   #23
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The team allready stated that getting shot WILL have effects in future, my reply was to the guy that said something utterly stupid about more animations causing lag. More animations don't cause lag (they don' affect your data transfer between the server) and more animations don't even cause a slowdown in FPS so that was BS.

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Old 24th Mar 2001, 12:44 PM   #24
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What will force you backwards is force.
A 5.56 round weighs about 4g. An M16 fires a 5.56 round out of the barrel at about 920 m/s. That is equal to 3.68 N of force. Thats practically nothing.

A man who weights about 200 lbs. has roughly 90 kg of mass. If you were to just have enough force to knock him backwards at .1 m/s requires 9 N of force, almost 3 times more than the force of the bullets impact. And to give you an idea of what .1 m/s is: average walking speed is between 1 to 1.3 m/s. In other words, if you get knocked down by a bullet, you must be anorexic.

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Old 24th Mar 2001, 12:59 PM   #25
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This comes up every two weeks or so

http://unreal.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=10009422&f=17009232&m=39509 8461#161093171

http://unreal.infopop.net/OpenTopic/...32&m=752091828

The bullet does not knock you down, the bullet causes trauma that knocks you down. That is highly simplified way of saying it, just read the other threads...
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Old 24th Mar 2001, 01:11 PM   #26
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Damn right! Small arms ammo don't have enough momentum to knock a person on the ground. It might make you lose your balance, (doubt anybody in a firefight would be doing ballet) but still it won't send you flying. I think, like in prone mode, if you get shot your accuracy is thrown off. That would be a more sensible thing to add, and gives you a chance to survive too.
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Old 24th Mar 2001, 11:43 PM   #27
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Okay...

Well, this may not make any difference but when Counter-Strike had flinch animations it sucked a big one. You'd try to move to return fire and run but your screen would bounce 'cause your character is still flinching.

My suggestion is to just leave it, or add a firing/full speed run delay of .9 seconds after you get shot.

Like, you get shot and you can't return fire or RUN (you can walk) for .9 seconds... Just DON'T add flinching anims.

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Old 25th Mar 2001, 10:46 AM   #28
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It's your own fault for getting shot,when you get shot your first concern should be getting cover, not shooting back.

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Old 25th Mar 2001, 11:12 AM   #29
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To be fair to myself, in my post, I didn't mean the force of a bullet should knock you down ( i worded that badly), I meant the pain it causes should invoke a reaction, something I still belief. If someone puts a clean shot into your leg and shatters, the bone, few people have the will power to land on that leg without collapsing from the pain.

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Old 26th Mar 2001, 04:50 AM   #30
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LOL

funny how many times this comes up again and again and again =)

Only the HK69 (grenade launcher) could possibly make you fall backwards the rest bullet weapons is just reflexes for the bullet impacting bone and that pain...

a Rocket fired from a rocket launcher aimed in the center of your body wonder how that affects you?!

Soo well what can I say bullets penetrate or hit bone wont send you flying anywhere unless you jump back just before the bullet hit (not easy to jump when a bullet hits you)

Got it now?!?!?


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Old 26th Mar 2001, 09:16 AM   #31
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Ok, my two bits...

First, the projectiles will drop in muzzle energy due to friction in the air (you know, the reason meteors don't hit the ground?) It's that simple.

Example...

a 230grn projectile, traveling at 1200fps, would have 732.36ft/lb of muzzle energy. Depending on a bunch of things (air temp, humidity, elevation, etc) it's energy will vary uppon impact but, every bullet starts to slow down the instant it leaves the muzzle, some times, even BEFORE it leaves (a .22LR for example has reached full burn at approx. 19" of barrel, if you have a 22" barrel, it's slowing down in that last three inches)

Now, I can hear some people thinking that 732ft/lbs is a LOT....which, YES it IS a LOT. This doesn't take a lot of things into account tho and shouldn't be seen as something that'd knock someone down. It has a slim chance of it I suppose if the person is off balance and gets torqued as has been suggested.

You basically have to be hit by a large projectile, moving at a high rate of speed, that transfers a LOT of it's energy into your mass. Hence, that 732ft/lb may not ALL be delivered to your body.

If you get hit with a DE, the one in the game, which btw, is a .50AE (action express) then chances are your going to be set back a step or three but not picked up and dropped, at any range.

as for a 5.56 vs the 7.62, this is as old as taste great vs less filling or ford vs chevy.

The combat rounds for the .223 (5.56) are designed to tumble when they enter a target because they lack the mass that an expanding type of round needs to cause a serious crush/stretch cavity. The 7.62 does have enough mass and typically is designed to try to expand (aka "petal")

When struck, your body suffers hydrostatic shock. Basically, at the energy levels involved, your soft tissue acts like water. A liquid can't be compressed but the tissues can so, when all that energy hits you and goes racing through your body, it's most likely THAT which will plant you on your but because it'll make your leggs buckle and put you in a momentary state of shock.

No, I've not been shot or known anyone who has, or who would talk about it anyways. However, sense I was ...um...12, I've studied ballistics and forgotten more about the subject than most people I know. I'd wanted to be a first and second stage phorensics(sp) spec. for a long while but just couldn't afford the schooling.

Please, if anything I've said is incorrect let me know and I will offer many apologies : )

oh ya, unless it's fired from a TANK, a paintround will NEVER knock you around, that's why lots of people don't even know when the GET HIT until you call a "paint check" on them. How can something that can't even penetrate water knock you around?? ...no, really, try it, take your paintmarker and pop off a few rounds at a bucket or body of water and see what happens.


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Old 26th Mar 2001, 09:55 AM   #32
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There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Also, think about it this way, if you fired a projectile from a gun and for whatever reason it knocks a person flying though the air, consider the following;

Bullets are basically goverened by the laws of physics.

when a bullet hits an object and transfers XXX number of joules and happens to send a person flying though the air, we know that that bullet has got to have some seriously high levels of kinetic energy.

we also know that bullets lose energy as they travel though the air since they lose velocity against atmospheric resistance.

So, according to Newton, if every action has an equal and opposite reaction, that means that the initial energy of ignition, must be equal to the recoil of the weapon. So logically, if the impact of the bullet is powerful enough to send a man flying, then so will the recoil of the gun.

Now wouldn't that be fun to see?


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Old 26th Mar 2001, 09:56 AM   #33
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God, not this again!

Don't base opinions of what is realistic on other videogames or movies! Look for footage of real-life shootings. Especially Richard Davis, who's been shot 500+ times while demonstrating soft body armor.

Thank goodness some people here can do the math and prove it's impossible.
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Old 26th Mar 2001, 09:59 AM   #34
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Now, think for a minute, if a paintball gun were 'powerful to knock a person down' with it's 'high power' upon impact, then it'd be powerful enough to knock YOU down with it's high recoil upon firing.

Think about what you say.


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Old 26th Mar 2001, 03:30 PM   #35
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Just one thing, Streaks- the DE in INF isn't in .50AE, though that was the original plan. It's in .357 magnum now.

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Old 26th Mar 2001, 07:09 PM   #36
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ug..

I think we need to distinguish between "knock down" and "drop." Bullets can't knock somebody down, a big man swinging a crowbar could knock somebody down. A bullet striking you, on the otherhand, will 'drop' you just through the pain and shock (most of the time). Un unarmored person after getting hit by even a 9mm round will probably find themselves on the ground pretty quickly. And a single 5.56mm to the chest, well, you're going to be dropping like a rag doll even though the bullet doesn't physically have enough energy to "knock down" a 200 lb man.
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Old 26th Mar 2001, 10:09 PM   #37
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Exactly Farell.

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Old 27th Mar 2001, 08:55 AM   #38
Streaks
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doh

Sorry, I'd missed the .50AE to .357 switch <--- dolt

: )

Either way, it's funny that everybody cries for more realisem and then when you start factoring in real life ballistics, it all goes to hell : )

and, as an active paintball player for uh...16? years now, could we please refrain from mingling that sport with realistic depictions of weapons and violence? I can see the house-frous(sp) looking over Little Johnies shoulder now and telling him something like "see? I TOLD you all those paintball players are just gun toating freaks!" Yes I know, it's silly but I enjoy the sport and don't want it's image tarnished in any little way, not to say that Inf is bad or anything, but I'm thinking of how the pulbic views things....

The scariest thing I've ever heard. Once while in a walmart, kid was talking his grandmother into buying him a cheap-o paintgun there. He'd finally convenced her when an old friend of hers walks up to see whats going on (the word there being OLD). The kid grabs a mask and says he needs this too and the already penny pinching grandmother says "oh heavens, that's another $35!" The old friend then says "shoot, why doncha just put on some saftey glasses...c'mon! I'll take ya over to the wood section and we can get ya some cheapies"

my blood went to ice....no, it's no joke or exaduration(sp)

I had to speak up and tell them WHY you wear propper saftey equipment.

Sorry, I tend to ramble *apologies*


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Old 28th Mar 2001, 02:45 PM   #39
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<--fanatik paintball player. And owns no guns in real life


I only used a full co2 power paintball shot as an example.

Some folks here have pointed out that bullets go through the body and not knocking someone down by the kinetic impact. That was an aspect I had forgotten about. But the fact still remains, if you get shot at close range with anything bigger than a 9mm (though a 9mm does the job quite nicely too) you WILL be on the ground quite fast. in INF you can keep on running and bunny hopping as if nothing had happened.

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Old 28th Mar 2001, 06:40 PM   #40
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Do you know even if your are shot in a vital part of your body (like cutting a big artera) you can still be dangerous for your opponent during the next 20seconds because it's the time for your brain to dry of O2 ?

I advice everybody to dig into the forum archive to found the link to some articles of FBI. They made some papers about real life test about the stopping power of their common weapons...

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