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Old 25th Nov 2000, 06:40 PM   #1
bastard_o
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Bot see-thru experimental breaking glass, level and images.

See General thread regarding bots and glass that will explain this thread...

Here is the test level EJ.. seems to work ok.

It was an old test level hence the other stuff in the level.

So the new glass (lol) is the glass that the bots will see you thru and kill you... ha ha.

Sorry no, I just remembered that the test level has a wall, two windows and a door. I forget at this moment which window is the new one... I think the right-hand one...

I have but 4 start points in so start the level in a team game of 3 bots plus you...

They can't see you when you appear but if you walk to the right hand window the bots will spot you, go to the left window and they won't...

Give it a go and let me know what you think...





Glass test level

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Old 26th Nov 2000, 05:14 AM   #2
Andirez
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So instead of an invisible collision hull, you used the "block actor" class. GREAT idea Bastard'O, never thought of using that for a window (i only use it for fences). This is some very refreshing stuff

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Old 26th Nov 2000, 12:44 PM   #3
bastard_o
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Oddly enough...

The problem that DarkNess noticed was that you could be stood at an opening which had standard issue glass covering it but bots wouldn't see you at all.

The reason being that I in the past made my glass from a solid brush mover, with it being solid the mover itself would detect being bumped or hit by a projectile, the mover would then move out of the way (Zero time) and at the same time trigger the breaking glass actor.. usual stuff.

I used this config because a single breaking_glass actor could be triggered by accident just walking past the opening, hence I dis-abled the breaking_glass's collision hull and triggered it instead.

Ramble, Ramble... anyway the above method gave human players a slight advantage of being invisible behind the glass.

A different approach which solves all issues so the glass works the same BUT can be seen thru by bots is within the test level.

Enough Any_Prox triggers to fill the window which trigger a sheet mover which triggers the breaking_glass...

If you wanted to stop players getting thru the window but be able to break the glass maybe some vertical bars under 40 units apart would do the job, then even as many sheet_glass_movers plus supporting any_prox triggers to trigger each pane of glass would be very cool.

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Old 27th Nov 2000, 12:04 PM   #4
Andirez
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I normally use yet another method, i let also the mover trigger the breakingglassactor and use (instead of a solid mover) one sheet and two invisible collision hulls on both sides. It really needs to be on both sides cause otherwise the shot won't trigger the mover on the side where there isn't an invisible collision hull.

So i basically intersect two collision hulls with a sheet in between. I've taken a pic in ued how it looks :

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Old 28th Nov 2000, 03:17 PM   #5
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Confused again...

Well I am completly confused now...

I will have to go back to my test level and try some stuff out...

Questions about the above method...

The Invisible collision hulls surely block the any player from going thru the window, also the BOT AI can't see thru a collision hull.

The sheet mover can't detect being hit !!!!! it is a sheet.... so what triggers the break_glass ?.

Are you sure that you are not hitting the collision hull or the breaking glass...

Humm, anyway all of what I just said here could be complete rubbish... I will have a play around later this evening and hopefully report back with some facts..

I must look into all of this ScalableSprite usage I see being used within AS-UA2, plus some of Spooger's tricks with Reactor4 are interesting, using lens flare skins on barrels... hummm hey Spooger explain please...

IMHO AS-UrbanAssault2 and Dm-Reactor4 are stunning pieces of work... Excellent in fact... go get them now if you haven't got them already...

Bastard'O

[This message was edited by Bastard'O on Nov 28, 2000 at 18:36.]
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Old 28th Nov 2000, 04:03 PM   #6
Andirez
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The two invisible collision hulls and the sheet are ONE mover. Indeed, sheets can't detect that they have been hit, but the two collusion hulls can. So when hit, the mover simply triggers the breakingglass actor as usual.

No why do such a thing ? The idea is that the invisble collision hulls + sheet make it possible to let light shine through the window.

And indeed, you are right Bastard'O, bots can't see through them (atleast i think they can't), but the method you discribed above makes it impossible for someone to climb through the shot window 'cause the blockactors are still gonna be there (or is the window an attachmover with the blockactors attached ?)

Anyway, i just wanted to show how i make my windows

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Old 28th Nov 2000, 05:27 PM   #7
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Cool ok I see now, I didn't notice that the ICH+Sheet+ICH was all a mover... Clever stuff but isn't that 13 polys in all... or maybe the engine does treat them as polycount maybe just its collision hull(s).

I must admit I don't know much about ICH's and how they react to their environment.

I guess back to the test level again to do some polycount testing...

Well I think we know maybe four ways of doing the breaking_glass thing, just have to pick the best one for the sitution.

Oh with the light thru the window effect I cheat and move my solid movers out of the way when I do the lighting build, then move them back and save.

I had to use that cheat when doing those silly mines craters in EP, else the hole would have been black.

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Old 28th Nov 2000, 05:48 PM   #8
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Invisible collision hulls don't add to the polycount, they are just collision, no polys (i once checked with an invisible ladder brush i made, consisting of about 60 invisible collision hulls). But i'm not sure this also counts when you intersect a sheet and two collusion hulls together to get one mover brush. It would surprise me if UT would render those invisible semisolids, but you never know. Anyway, if the polys aren't drawn, ICH + sheet + ICH would reduce the polycount by 5 polys compared to a normal "cubiclike" mover. That would be very nice in buildings with many breakable windows

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Old 29th Nov 2000, 02:48 PM   #9
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Collision hulls take up more resources than triggered actors because they are added to the BSP - ie lower frame rates.

A method I would use is a variation on Bastard'Os - that is make the glass out of a single transparent sheet (so bots can see through it) then place a number of triggers instead of the blockactors. Make the triggers TI_Shoot ie shootable.
Then you shoot the window, the shot is detected by the triggers, which triggers the mover to move outside the map, and the shatteringglass effect to happen. Then you have glass that can be seen through by bots, shot apart, and will not block players when it has been shattered.
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Old 29th Nov 2000, 06:32 PM   #10
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But then again the players will be able to move through the window before it is shaddered also right?

I think this method would work best (Bastard'O's method that is) for windows that are too small or too high for players to move, crawl through. But for big windows like storefronts etc I don't think it would be as feasible.

Map and the world maps with you.
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Old 30th Nov 2000, 10:22 AM   #11
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Kain, you can always walk through a sheet, so you'll be able to walk/jump through the window if it's still in there.

And visible/invisible semi-solids are NOT added to the bsp (look at your bspcuts, you'll see that they are not affected by adding/deleting semi-solids). That's the advantage of using semi- solids. Visible semi-solids do not reduce polycount, but do reduce nodecount, invisible semi-solids aren't adding anything to the polycount (i checked myself). I think UT handles invisble semi-solids just like a simple collision hull, nothing more, nothing less.

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Old 30th Nov 2000, 02:10 PM   #12
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yeah of course you're right, I was thinking about only using shoot_triggers for little windows like in houses where the frames are too small to walk through.

Bastard'Os method is the best for bigger windows, just attach the blockactors to the mover and they will go away when the mover moves. You also have to make the mover an 'attachmover', but none of this takes any more time.
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Old 30th Nov 2000, 04:10 PM   #13
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What really bugs me about blockactors is that their radius is a cilinder. You won't have the impression that the window is flat cause when you move against it you'll follow the little cilindrical collision hulls and not a flat one.

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Old 30th Nov 2000, 05:39 PM   #14
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Hummm, Them actors are not Blocking_Actors they are normal triggers, but with Any_Proximity so they are activated when either you shot them with a projectile_class or a pawn_class touches it.

Sorry for the confusion about that...

I will be using in future one method for places with not much depth ie a Door with glass, the main reason here is that the triggers radius would have to be so small you would need many of them in a row to cover the gap.

Then the method within my little test level for places where bots need to be able to see you else it would be unfair, but here again the depth of the window gap or hole needs to be big enough to give the triggers a good radius.

Sheeeshh Kain you can script stuff, how about a NEW trigger class where you can specify either multiple collsion cones via an array of vectors or some cool way of setting an area (collision box).

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Old 30th Nov 2000, 08:31 PM   #15
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Attention Spooger dude...

I was having a good old play of inf 2.82 and fired up Dm-Reactor4 again.

Have you noticed this before...

After taking out the glass within the doors, when you shot thru the hole in the door where the glass was ALL the projectiles are obsorbed....

Please give it a try... you can stand there and fire away at a bot or they at you and NO damage at all..

I will go take a look a.s.a.p to try and find out why... my hunch is the breaking_glass actor must still be active and sucking the bullets out of the air... ((

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Old 3rd Dec 2000, 01:11 AM   #16
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Yes

I noticed this too... not sure what the deal is... we are looking into it. Let me know if you come accross anything. Thanks!


Come on in, sit down, let me take your head off!
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Old 3rd Dec 2000, 05:04 AM   #17
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Triggers....

Spooger dude, worked it out and tested it, the damn triggers need to be set to Only_Once... else they suck the projectiles out of the air...

They stay active ...

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