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View Poll Results: Are schools teaching children to accept fascism?
Yes! 6 25.00%
Hell Yes! 11 45.83%
I claim to be a liberal but instead support suppression of human rights and indoctrination of children into a police state 7 29.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 3rd May 2001, 08:22 PM   #41
Mad_Dog
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in response to the original question....

quote
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So my poll question is, are schools just fascist indoctrination camps in which children are taught to give up their rights, accept punishment for originality, and learn to never question authority no matter how wrong that authority is?
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it depends on the school, and the teachers in the school. i went to a great high school, with great teachers, who constantly rewarded you for originality (the majority of them anyway). my composition in stage band was a guitar/drum 'n' bass instrumental, and the majority of my presentations were on censorship and free speech (taking the view of opposing censorship of any kind). every school has good and sh*t teachers, gotta take the good with the bad. also, i find now in university, you are f*cked without originality... a C at best. i've learnt the hard way.

and rogueleader - what kind of f*cking school do yo go to? 6 am to 4 pm? jesus christ, i'd drop out and work at the local planing mill... mine was 8:30 to 3:00....
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Old 3rd May 2001, 08:36 PM   #42
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For every school that promotes free expression there is a law that seeks to stop it. In Bush's budget all schools must install filetering software. In my experience with the Bess proxy at my school the only things blocked out are links to civil liberties pages from about.com's civil liberties section and amnesty international's web site. I also found that Bess blocks the word "witch". If I were a Wiccan I would be very insulted.

Another bill, SB73, allows teachers to grade parents abiltiies based on student attendance and how much homework is done. In other words, if a chidl doesn't do his homework the teacher can give the parent an F (instead of the student) and social services takes away the child.
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Old 3rd May 2001, 08:45 PM   #43
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RogueLeader, I could put a bunch of rebuttals to your previous statements here, but instead I'll just leave with this:

You're a dumb piece of crap.
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Old 3rd May 2001, 08:58 PM   #44
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Old 3rd May 2001, 10:11 PM   #45
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i am also canadian, where we were smart enough not to elect our joke candidate, stockwell day. george w. is a f*cking stooge... i feel for ya...

i also noticed problems with my school boards web filtering... think i could look up a web page on the sex pistols? nooooo... i think some kind of filter is needed though, cause there is nasty **** that schools shouldn't allow. anyway, that is another debate...
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Old 4th May 2001, 12:28 AM   #46
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rogue leader, you're ****ed up.

look back at history...communism/marxism/utopian socialism don't work for very long. take the owenites for example. owen started New Lanark, failed; New Harmony, failed; Mexican colony, failed before it started. The shakers were sort of communists, you could be a shaker...
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Old 4th May 2001, 01:11 AM   #47
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everybody - please refrain from flaming. that ruined another interesting thread that rogueleader had started. if you're going to argue, have a point to make, support it, and avoid personal insults.
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Aldous Huxley said that an intellectual was a person who had discovered something more interesting than sex. A civilized man, it might be said, is someone who has discovered something more satisfying than combat.

-John Keegan, A History of Warfare
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Old 4th May 2001, 04:35 AM   #48
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Good on ya Mad Dog

Could ya post the essay RL?
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Old 4th May 2001, 07:01 AM   #49
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I really want to know what kind of school has working hours of 6-4 and 3-5? hours of homework every night.

Also I don't know where you get your figures from for 10 hours required sleep. As far as i know everyone is different in this respect but in most cases absolutely no benefit is gained from any sleep over 8 hours.

Oh yeah, sleep depravation - if you really want to know what it is, have a baby. When my son was youger it went like this:

Woken up by baby at 5.30. Feed him, change him, dress him, feed myself, change myself, bath (shower) myself.

7.00 take baby to childminders.
7.30 catch train to work
8.30 arrive at work.
5.00 catch train home
6.30 arrive at home, feed, bath + change baby
8:00 put baby to bed (constantly up and down stairs for the next 1 1/2 hour)

9.30 feed self, tidy up etc.
10.00 baby wakes up - feed him, wind him and get him back to sleep (usually took 2 hours)
Midnight go to bed
2am woken up by baby - feed him wind him get him back to sleep
4am go back to sleep
5.30 woken up by baby. Its a new day!!!

for a grand total of 3 1/2 hours sleep per day. It didn't kill me. If anything I got used to it and now only need about 506 hours sleep on a night and so can stay up late every night playing Inf

So maybe your teacher has a baby? maybe the assignment is all she could come up with after months of this? Maybe she was quite justified in being annoyed that a student of all people complained about sleep deprivation. Or maybe she has a sick relative which she is spending all of her time caring for?

Schools teach faschism? Maybe they're trying to teach respect - something which is sorely lacking in the younger generation. What is a law-abiding citizen but someone who respects the authority of the police force, judiciary system and government?

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but you just seem to want a perfect world and it just isn't possible. All you can realistically expect is that people try to make it the best possible worly they can - but I have news for you, life gets harder as you grow up. School is the easiest part of anyone's life (apart from maybe pre-school) and pretty much everyone else has a hard time just getting through their day without having to make the world a better place.

And what you forget - Education is a benefit to YOU, no-one else. 150 years ago you would have given anything for the chance to go to school but now everyone in the developed world gets to go. Is that an improvement in the world or what?

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Old 4th May 2001, 07:29 AM   #50
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Rogueleader. I do see were your coming from. I also think that you realize what you need to do to get good grades and that choosing your battles can be more beneficial than fighting them all.

Just a little tidbit about teachers and grades. We had an english assignment to write an essay once. Two girls in my class handed in their essays but forgot to write their names on them. The teacher assumed which essay was who's, wrote the names she thought on them and graded them. When the girls said she'd mixed up who wrote which essay, not only did she change the names, she also changed the grades. Ie, she decided what grade to give based upon who wrote it. Btw, one girl was a goody two shoes, the other was more of a non-comformist like Rogueleader here. Guess who got the better grade after the names were sorted out?

A note on communsim. Everything you learn about it in US schools in a blatant lie.

Quote: "What is a law-abiding citizen but someone who respects the authority of the police force, judiciary system and government?"

Hypothetical governing body:"We have a new law. All law abiding citizens are required to gas jews."

Naw, that'll never happen. Will it????
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Old 4th May 2001, 07:59 AM   #51
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Excelsiore - what a bitch! i had a teacher like that once... one of the sh*tty ones in my school. he marked rough notes for some reason, and i handed in two pages of rough notes with an assignment, first of the year. i got 7/10 on the rough notes, which was fair i thought, i didn't do too many. but i wanted a better mark, so i handed in 4 pages of rough notes with the next assignment. i still got 7/10, for twice as much work. so i showed it too him, asked for a raise in the mark and he said he'd think about it. i did get the raise, but so many teachers stick students in one mark bracket, and don't give them a chance to get out... i hate that.
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Old 4th May 2001, 08:03 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Excelsiore
I also think that you realize what you need to do to get good grades and that choosing your battles can be more beneficial than fighting them all.
Excelsiore - You hit the nail right on the head.

Rouge Leader - Maybe you should read Educating Rita, although it's not the main theme of the book it touches on the need to learn what is required of you and to produce it. It's also quite short so I'm sure you can fit it in somewhere. A couple of years ago I was doing the same thing as you, but it became too much of a hassle having to haggle for marks, so I now I just keep it verbal or dont even bother.
Also, just to piss you off, my school day is 8:30 - 3:30 (this is in Australia); we are supposed to do a minimum of three hours of homework a night (this is Year 12, final year of high school), I do maybe 30 minutes, and that's on a good night, but I still remain seventh in my year (out of 100 odd students).

Edit: PS, I nominated option three on the poll, mostly because I do feel that schools tend to numb people's individuality and what not, but I'm confident that I cannot be corrupted, thus this "facism" makes people just that little bit easier to understand/manipulate.
PPS, I've got some pretty f*cked up morals though, I failed an ethics test on principle, that was last year, and probably the last time I put any of me into my work. (I couldn't convince the teacher that since there should be no wrong answers in the test that it shouldn't count for anything....)
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Last edited by Xxaxx; 4th May 2001 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 4th May 2001, 12:26 PM   #53
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I agree Upitty (i'm sorry if i spellt your name wrong). Respect in the schools is little to none it's down right pathetic. These teachers have real lives just like anyone else and on top of that they have to take crap from students all day. Instead of flaming the teachers we should be shaking their hands for all the crap they take from the student body. The teachers shouldn't be the focus of the blame if the school system is messed up...

Also I'd like to hear some remarks about my Stalin comment above RogueLeader
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Old 4th May 2001, 01:17 PM   #54
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hey rogue, instead of giving us an inheriantly biased opinion of your own work, why don't you post you paper and let others judge for them selves. i'll tell you i've done quite well doing similiar style papers, i did that for my final reflective essay for honors english here in collage. and i got a b on it. i've found that generally though negativly focused papers such as yours tend to do poorly. the tend to turn into a rant more than anything else. so surly you typed your paper in word or whatever wordprecessor you use and can just attach it here. and tell what education level your at so we have an idea of what we need to expect.
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Old 4th May 2001, 02:28 PM   #55
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Arrow

Respect goes both ways. A lot of teachers have no respect for students point of view or thoughts or anything.

One teacher asked me who my favorite author was at the begining of a school year. I said Stephen King, dammit, shoulda said Balzac or Gothe or something. Stuck on a B no matter what I did.

I'd rather be trying to teach Rogueleader than some guy who's gonna come at me with a knife or some girl who's mom is also a teacher, which means she can do no wrong.
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Old 4th May 2001, 02:32 PM   #56
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Yes, I would like to read his paper as well.
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Old 4th May 2001, 03:14 PM   #57
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pffftt...

I don't know what your talk'n about but I went to a cool High School!!

I went to Westbury High School

It had its bad times, but most of our teachers really did care about our students

my english teachers always wanted our input on anything. and we where free to write on whatever we wanted to.

I was there during the big school scare... my teachers understood us, and never feared us. we even had students who refused to learn, and we never forced it on them, if they refused, they where flunked, not puzzy footed around.

I would like to take this time to thank my great teachers I had when I was a student 1995-1999

Mrs. Le Ware (english freshman& sophmore)
Mr. Kay (english junior)
Mr. Player (english senior)
Mr. Iltis (Computere SCI)
Mr. McDonald (Intro to Computers)

and a thanks for that teachers who where subpar and told me how to deal with assholes!

mrs. pellerin (Desktop Publishing)

High School is there for you to learn one thing....
how to deal with people!! the covert currculam of High School is far more important than the overt.

to all those who bitch about there HS I say... bahh...

deal with it, so is life.


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Old 4th May 2001, 04:09 PM   #58
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First of all, Lost, perhaps you should be studying history, not me. No communist society has ever existed and the places you list were communes, not communist societies, the two are different.

I like to think that I cannot be corrupted, but having just finished a paper on the CIA's mind control experiments I can tell you that brainwashing is not the kind of thing that you can simply be immune to. The human mind is a very fragile thing, and the more immune to corruption we think it is the more easy it is to corrupt it.
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Old 4th May 2001, 05:39 PM   #59
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Lightbulb Communism etc. etc.

Pity I couldn't have been around to take part in this extremely lengthy and in parts interesting thread. One point before I write the equivalent of Das Kapital on Off Topic...Stalin was not a Communist and he wasn't a Socialist– he was a fascist. The crimes against humanity which he committed were many times in quantity and at least equal in to those of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. In addition to that he was particularly genocidal.

At least he helped defeat Hitler, but even then it was the Russian people who did the hard work.
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Old 4th May 2001, 07:58 PM   #60
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I personally look at schools no diferently then i do the nazi consentration camps, same evil.

The things we are tought in school are the things the government deems proper, thereby efectively removing the right to a free will, i cant even start counting the essays i got flunk grades on, either because my teacher had a personal gripe with me, that he or she could not handle in a profecional manner, or because they where "total wrong, and misinformed" because it diddent take the "proper" point of view on political issues.
For every good school and or teacher, there are a thousand bad ones, and a government dictating what is right or wrong to say, do or write.
We <b>are</b> beeing censored i school, try writing a history essay on the assasination of JFK, and write it in favor of the "second shooter on the grassy knoll", u <b>will</b> get flunked, because the government has said it was Oswald who shot him alone, its in the historry book, even if the chance of it are 1 to 10000000.
U are not intiteled to say "no, i dont belive thats right, the facts in that book must be wrong" and write it thereafter.
Where are the basic human rights of free will in that?

All i have learned in school was
1) i am nothing
2) the athority is allways right
3) i am not allowed to disagree

The perfect setup for a mindrape, if i dont belive i have rights, i wont stand up for any, plain and simple.

Now who would benifit from this?

Lets look short termed first, the school and teachers themselves.

A student who does not know his or her rights, or just doesent dare stand up for them, wont:

1) talk back to a teacher
2) deny punishment such as detention (witch is classed as freedom denial, like jail is, and is not legal)
3) speak against policies or rules that he or she is forced to abide, such as discriminating dress codes, or the removal of right to practice a relegion
4) refuse to work on an asignment that discriminates his or her personal beliefs, or morals (disecting frogs and seartain essay topics comes to mind)
5) refuse to pay for seartain "service deals" that he or she thinks are a waste of money

Ok, so who outside the school wouldent mind the people not knowing their rights.

Work.
So what can an employer do, if the people working for him/her doesent know their rights, or just dont dare stand up for them:

1) working for less than they are intiteled to
2) disregard safety gear, to save a few bucks
3) how about forcing people to work overtime without paying them for it
4) women just get pregnit at some point, and cant work, lets not pay them the same as we do men
5) or why bother installing ventilation, so what if people get sick, we just cut it from their pay
6) so u dont want to have sex with me, eh?, well kiss youre paycheck goodbye
7) whoa there bubba, u have the wrong skin colour, no way am i paying u the same as real people

Or what about the government:

If no one is fighting for their rights, what is going to stop them from doing anything they damn well please.
(i wont even bother writing up points here, the posibilities are astronomical)

Theres too much politics involved with all this, and too much money, everything currupts given the right sercomstances, school has all of them, in my not so humble opinion.

Now on the topic of respecting athority, namely police...let me get this straight, when my freind got the living crap beaten out of him this monday by the police, for the horrible crime of beeing part of a peacefull demonstation against racism.
He should have showed them nothing but respect?

The fact that someone is wearing a uniform doesent change anything, we are all humans, for better or worse.

So what can we say about cops?
Well here we have a line of work the requres that u are werry dumb, u have to take an IQ test to become a cop, and u are dismissed if u score too well, the government needs dumb drones that just carry out orders.
Lets look at the job itself.
Here is a line of work that offers u power to do a great deal of things twords people, it offers that sence of beeing better than anyone else, guns and fast cars, and the right to use them.
If u ask me, the only job that provides more opertunity for coruption, and atracts more people prone to corrupt than police officer, is politician, its wrotten to the core.

Now onto the communism topic that has sprung up:
Stalin was not a communist, he was a dictator, he promised the russian people communism, but gave them poperty, genocide and war, in exactly the same way Hitler promised the german people economic stabillity, safety and freedom, but gave them genocide, mind rape and war.

There has never been a true communistic state or country, and there wont be anytime soon. Communism is one of the purest and most decent philosofies i have ever encountered, and people are such selfish, power hungry s<b></b>hit, it wont work.
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