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Old 7th Apr 2001, 04:52 AM   #1
SoSilencer
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Angry

Now I've been working on a level for about a week and haven't been playing much during this time. Tonight I went ahead and put in my hours. It was terrible in almost every way.

First thing I noticed was of course the grenades. I know this has been talked about already but it really needs to be changed. Half the people in the map run around with m16 w/m203. This isn't really that bad except that they almost all run around in grenade mode. They don't even TRY to shoot you with a bullet first REGARDLESS of range. They see you, they shoot their grenade, switch to bullets, then continue firing if your still alive. I don't really know what can be done about this while keeping the realism but it ISN'T real and it ISN'T fun when 40mm grenades are the first thing to come out of somebodies gun when they see you.

Second is camping. Not that people camp but what is said to those who do (even if they aren't doing it). So tonight on dockside mill I was outnumbered like 4-1. Now only a fool would wander around aimlessly on that map with those odds. I did the smart thing and lay down in a dark corner. Within about 30 seconds I had people yelling at me for camping. A minute or so later the last player countdown started. I stayed where I was hoping that in a panic to find me the enemies would come running around the corner. Unfortunately they didn't and the timer ran out which EXTREMELY upset the other people on my team. I don't see why because isn't it better to have a draw than to run out and get yourself killled, losing the match? I mean it's not like I was HIDING from them I was simply waiting for them to make a mistake (rather than make one myself).

What's worse is what happened after. Almost every time I stopped after that I was yelled at "get moving!". I could run a marathon and be out of stamina then lay down to recover it. Eh, I'm camping again. Take a 3 second pause behind a crate while deciding the best route to take? Camping again. Kill a few enemies then duck behind a wall to reload? You got it, camping yet again. It got so bad I just started to tell people "f--- you, if I want to camp I'm gonna camp", even if I was just reloading or something.

Simply put, it wasn't fun. If I wasn't getting killed by another grenade I was getting yelled at for not running around like rambo. I hope the tweaked bulk system REALLY makes people think twice before taking a grenade launcher. BTW, is there any way to ignore players?
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 09:47 AM   #2
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Unhappy

You know? I agree and yet I don't. "Wow that is some enigma 'fud!" I hear you say.

Thing is I agree with your tactic of hunkerin' down and wait for the enemy wonder by or force a draw. It makes sense. Except that Inf is plaugued by long wait times. Personally I don't mind. I just practice my whilstling, play guitar or do my nails. Some other guys pay their bills, or do odd jobs around the house after getting out early in Kosovo.

Basically, I think the distictions is drawn thus (this is from somebody else on these forums and not from me):

Camping (the bad kind) is where you find a spot and just sit there for virtually the entire round. Basically, this is boring for everyone except maybe the camper.

Camping (the good kind) is making a smart tactical decision in the face of difficult odds. However, to be fair to other players I recommend the following tactic when outnumbered:

1) Go to next vantage point.
2) Stop
3) Snipe for no more that 30 secs.
4) Move to next vantage point
5) Stop.
6) You get the idea....

What thinketh ye?
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 10:21 AM   #3
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The thing is in real life you simply don't give every soldier a M203. What we need is a way for mappers to limit what weapons you can carry.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 10:24 AM   #4
SoSilencer
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That's how I normally would play at the end of the round but if the odds are TOO much like 4+ to 1 than I'll just wait until they are reduced a little before moving spots.

It's not like it was for the whole game or anything, that's what really bugs me. It was the last couple minutes of the game, I believe there was like 3-4 minutes left when I lay down.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 11:10 AM   #5
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I think that whenever someone says a sentence with "camper" in it should be blocked, and the person who said it should be sent the message "it's a legitimate tactic you fuc*er! Go back to counterstrike!"
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 11:31 AM   #6
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Lol Strangelove.

I agree entirely. The term "camping" has become far too wide spread. As far as I am concerned, camping is a word that can not really be associated with games of this genre.

If i were to sit on a power up point, or next to a player spawn in Q3 or ordinary U.T, then yes, I am a camper and deserve to be kicked.

If I am sitting in one area for an extended period of time, not backing up my team mates, waiting for someone to walk in front of my sights and hoping to score a few points by picking of survivors, then I am simply a boring person who is too unskilled to play properly, and deserve to be mocked.

However, if I move stealthily to a vantage point, and scan the area for enemies, pick them off if I see them and then move on, I am a sniper!

Campers go home!!!
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 11:37 AM   #7
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Cool Don't take it to heart, SoSilencer

First of all, I am completely in agreement concerning the prevalence of m16 w/m203 + scope. The common populace have decreed this to be the Uber-Weapon, that allows all sorts of advantages. Particularly, without a bazooka or LAW system to tote around, the m203 is the closest thing people of a certain mindset get to rocket launcher for Deathmatch.


And if we pay attention here, the enemy is not the m203, it's the Deathmatch mentality. Along with gripes concerning perceived camping (which for many is any time you are not moving, regardless of how brief the rest) are those calls out from the dead "Hurry up and die people!", "Type 'suicide' in console", "Fall on your grenades!", etc. Some have come here expecting some fast and furious gameplay, and while that can happen, there are long periods of maneuvering, waiting, scouting, thinking, and more waiting.

For those who've died early on, this can be boring; and boredom is a good thing here! Those who do not learn to respect their lives and think before & as they act, are doomed to long times haunting battlefields. Those who refuse to learn, may be discouraged and find some other game more to suited to their tastes and styles. And some will learn, will pay attention, and will not find themselves waiting interminably too often after that.

Where possible, our best bet to fend off aggrivation with these people is to try to teach them about what we are doing and what needs doing. In short of that, there are some servers who's regulars are better about this sort of behavior than others. I heartily recommend the SK servers, and a few of the MUFs in this regard.

On a final note, I will admit to some of my own sins in this regard. I do have an m16/m203/scope loadout, primarily for Vietnam (either team) and Cuban Dawn (team that starts out by the water, red I think). I also am a vocal advocate of the end-of-round-knife-fight, which I will also propose when I am a final survivor. Sadly, most forgo the honor & either agree then bring a pistol or just ignore the offer. On the other hand, those few duels that have occurred have been wholly worth the effort, win or lose.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 11:37 AM   #8
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LOL Dr. Strangelove

I too agree. Inreal life I would not go charging alone into an enemy facility. I use teamwork first then stealth. However there are those who run straight for thier hiding places from the go. These aren't campers but cowards. They are just waiting for the numbers to dwindle in hopes that they can be the llast alive.

This is a game and meant to have fun I know the wait can be boring but spamming camper never really helps. In fact if the person is of the second type it often encourages them.

Just my .02 yen.

P.S. Knife fights rule!
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 03:09 PM   #9
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jeez

Quote:
The thing is in real life you simply don't give every soldier a M203. What we need is a way for mappers to limit what weapons you can carry.
What are you ****ing crazy?

I am so sick of people trying to tell me how I should play.

If I want an M16 with a grenade launcher, you are just going to have to deal with that. And unless you are in a clan, join a server and try to get people to follow orders or use teamwork, it's nonexistent.

Sorry if I sound hostile, but I hate it when people say "He's a dirty bastard for doing this", or "All of you that do that suck ass". It just seems like a way to lash out for your own shortcomings.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 04:02 PM   #10
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Hey, i'm doing my part to not be another grenade spammer with a scope, i use a "plain" M16 (that's right, no attachements). Of course that's really hard to kill when you can't snipe, can't bomb them and can't spray them to death... Sometimes i also take out my m9...
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 04:13 PM   #11
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People really seem shellshocked from all these grenades. Just like IRL. THE GRENADES, THE GRENADES, OH THE HUMANITY!
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 04:53 PM   #12
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Well I'll pipe in, since I made a suggestion on the Suggestions forum--simply limit the number of grenades you are allowed to carry to two or three--that will cut down on the grenade problem. The tweaked stamina system may also take care of it.

As far as "camping" I generally don't snipe when I'm the last guy. Yes, it is the best tactic for surviving, but most people waiting just want to play and don't care who wins. So, I usually do move around simply out of consideration for the other players. So I get my ass shot off sometimes--big deal. I get to play again right away and don't make everyone else wait. You don't have to pull a Rambo, but if you move around some, it makes it more fun for everyone. Just my $.02.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 05:25 PM   #13
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Arrow I agree

The M16's grenade launcher needs something done to it, it just is so damn superior to other weapons for the most part. Now obviously there are ways to avoid getting killed by it, but most of the time its un-avoidable. Like in close quarters, your more or less screwed because if you hide your dead and if you run in your most likely dead because you get rather nasty hole put through you by one. Now as we all know, at least I hope we all do, wars a bitch and if you get screwed you die and that's that. But maybe, just maybe, for the sake of gameplay the grenade launcher for the m16 could get tweaked a little. I do like the idea of lowering the ammunition limit on the grenade launchers as that would prevent people from just running around firing grenades at anything that even remotely moves.

PS sorry for the big paragraph.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 05:32 PM   #14
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Thats where clan play comes in

If you have a really cool tight clan (where all players take a certain weapon) playing aganist another tight clan then it wil be the most fun you will ever have i can tell you that now.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 05:53 PM   #15
Mason
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Cool

If someone has a Grenade launcher and they are close, charge them. The 'nade probably won't explode and the shell probably won't kill you, then you can kill the schmuck when he is reloading. I don't see the huge problems with the grenades except that they seem to be all over the place.

Maybe there should be some 'set' loadouts that are somewhat customizable. That might do away with the 'Rambo's who carry 5 weapons(the bulk system might do this as well). Maybe only allow a m203 OR an ACOG scope, not both. I don't know, just a few ideas.
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 05:56 PM   #16
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Just a question, but why wouldn't every guy in a squad have the grenade attachment for the m16? Wouldn't you want it? What is the drawback?

What's not real about it? (besides folks being dominated by it)
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 05:58 PM   #17
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my quick rant

wtf are you talking about?
you want 100% action play CS
you want 100% tactics play rogue spear
last I heard INF was going for 50/50

most of you guys are trying to turn this game into the same ol sh!t, big guns, fast deaths, ridiculously excuses to suck by blaming it on campers and over powered guns.(what the hell is a over powered gun?) I mean one shot WILL kill you in real life.Allot of things are unbalanced I give you that.

I just don't get this, one minute its realism the next its:I want a rocket launcher,saw's,more M16's, no one hit deaths,I cant stand campers,why are the maps so dark,damn snipers..etc,etc,etc...

I'm really getting tired of most of you guys not being able to take what you dish out, I'm not blowing off the handle here but some of you guys honestly have a really sh|t ball taste in games, in guns ,in general. If this game is going the way I hope it was going to begin with then I will continue to play it, but what do you think made allot of mods turn into crap?

Also, just because someone does there home work on a gun, or bullets or war does not mean there ideas are going to be good, beleive it or not art does play apart(and I dont mean things that do it for you). this is getting really funny, yet sad at the same time,even though I know none of its definite or even considered.

I completely understand what they ment by "..most gun suggestions are ignored..." thing is Im not to sure about the teams choices either :/

Allot, I mean allot of things need to be balanced, and Im not talking about adding a SAW to even out the m16.
And Im not talking about smaller maps to lesson round times. Im just waiting to see.
la maggior parte di voi tipi clueless
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Old 7th Apr 2001, 06:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
If I want an M16 with a grenade launcher, you are just going to have to deal with that.
I agree, if there is some weapon that is becoming an "uberweapon" then you just need to figure out tactics to counter their use. Most of the people who use the M203 don't know how to use anything else, so once you get the upperhand you will OWN them

Many people complained that the sniper rifles were the "Uberweapon" but then people learned that an M203 or an HK69 are a useful way to flush out snipers.

The thing is to not run out into the middle of the battlefield and get pissed off when someone frags you with a grenade.

It's all about tactics.

Oh, and for people who bitch about campers, go play Counterstrike or regular UT.

again...
It's all about tactics.
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Old 8th Apr 2001, 12:11 AM   #19
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zundy you never played Fierarms RC2.3 did you? how much fun is it if everybody is using the same damn weapon all the time? What is the point of adding more weapons?

The m16/203 is simply too powerfull compared to all the other weapons, it makes taking a HK69 virtually pointless since you can get the m16/203 for the same amount at less weight. It gives instant long and close range firepower whileall the other weapons have some weakness the m16/203 has none.
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Old 8th Apr 2001, 01:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Fur

It gives instant long and close range firepower whileall the other weapons have some weakness the m16/203 has none.
The M16/203 has the ultimate weakness, the same weakness the other guns have. The person standing behind it. I have gotten creamed many times with this 'uberloadout'. Gimme a break. It ain't the gun, it is the mind behind the trigger. That's real life and that is this game.

Most people who depend on this load out are usually out of grenades after the first couple of minutes anyway. If you have the ACOG you can't advance with the gun at shoulder position, well you can but you are gonna get bushwhacked from the side. If the gun is at the hip you have no accuracy and only three round burst fire.

The weapon is pretty balanced imho. If you are getting creamed by this combo, reevaluate your tactics. I quit carrying this loadout a while back because of these limitaions I just stated. I get lots more success with my MP5/Robar loadout.

In the end, it isn't about the enemies tactics, it's about your own tactics.
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