unreal engine limits and stuff

LunatiK · 13th Jan 2001, 06:48 AM

hello

i have a lot of experience in map editing since the day i got the doom-editor

i've made many maps in quake2 for example, but many times i had problems with the limits of the q2 engine, my maps were simply too big.
and i had a hard time finding info of the q2 engine limits.
I have just started making maps in unreal, don't know why i didnt do it a long time ago..

so i am wondering if anyone can tell me the limits of the unreal engine and other stuff that would be good to know.
like for example i read somewhere that Unreal/UT has a limit of 64 zones total and there is also a 3 zone 'see through' limit. stuff like that..
does anyone have any useful editing tips & info for me?

thanks.

-BHS-Snowdog · 13th Jan 2001, 10:39 AM

I'm with you there, LunatiK. I also did tons of mapping for Doom, Doom2, and a bit for Q2 but have finally decided to tackle UnrealEd. The only 'limitation' I'm aware of is the visible polygon count, in that you want to keep it below a certain number (50, I think?) to ensure your level runs smoothly. From what I understand, this number CAN be exceeded but it will be at the cost of the map's FPS. Same thing goes with the effects like volumetric fog, dynamic lighting, etc.

I'm sure there are more 'limitations', and I too would be interested in hearing them (the 3 zone see-through limit is one I was unaware of...glad I saw that!)

Ixus · 13th Jan 2001, 10:48 AM

We are the knights of singwongtoooneeeeeekiekieekieekiepatang!

Fuzzpilz · 13th Jan 2001, 11:34 AM

The poly counts aren't that important, but the node counts are. You want to keep these below 150-200.
The 3 zone limit is for things like mirrors and warp zones, I think. For example, if you put two mirrors opposite to each other and step between them, you can't see more than 3 "steps" of reflection, and you also can't see through more than 3 warp zones in a row. You can try that by making a short corridor that loops back into itself.

-BHS-Snowdog · 13th Jan 2001, 12:26 PM

Hmm.. node counts, eh? I haven't seen anything on this in the many tutorials I've read. What exactly IS a node, and are you talking about having 150-200 VISIBLE nodes, or total? I'm hoping visible, as a curved stairway I'm working on has over a thousand! I haven't intersected the entire thing yet...will my node-count drop when I intersect it into a single brush?

Fuzzpilz · 13th Jan 2001, 02:12 PM

Visible, of course. Some of Unreal's maps had over 20000 polys total. If you type "stat fps" in the console, you'll see the amount of polys currently visible after "polys" and the nodes next to "nodes". Nodes are essentially the things that are the result of BSP cuts. You should also try to keep the node/poly rate as low as possible, under 2 if you can.

ChrisToth.hu · 13th Jan 2001, 04:12 PM

200 poly is the best limit (for lowest end machines too and you can make specFX at this level)
For an avg: 2.1 and 2.2 are good enough...

I'm working on a 400 poly map at the moment and it has got 350-400 polygons in view and the node counts are at a very good level. The average is 1.7:1 (!). Try to keep the occlusion times low.... (fire up the Lag-o-meter - console: stat global) and check the Occ field. 10-15 is good but don't let it rise. -> cool zoning

13th Jan 2001, 10:39 AM	#2
-BHS-Snowdog Registered User Join Date: Aug. 2nd, 2000 Posts: 243	I'm with you there, LunatiK. I also did tons of mapping for Doom, Doom2, and a bit for Q2 but have finally decided to tackle UnrealEd. The only 'limitation' I'm aware of is the visible polygon count, in that you want to keep it below a certain number (50, I think?) to ensure your level runs smoothly. From what I understand, this number CAN be exceeded but it will be at the cost of the map's FPS. Same thing goes with the effects like volumetric fog, dynamic lighting, etc. I'm sure there are more 'limitations', and I too would be interested in hearing them (the 3 zone see-through limit is one I was unaware of...glad I saw that!) __________________ "SO brave knights, if you do DOUBT your strength OR your courage come no further because DEATH awaits you with big nasty pointy teeth!" "What an eccentric performance."

13th Jan 2001, 12:26 PM	#5
-BHS-Snowdog Registered User Join Date: Aug. 2nd, 2000 Posts: 243	Hmm.. node counts, eh? I haven't seen anything on this in the many tutorials I've read. What exactly IS a node, and are you talking about having 150-200 VISIBLE nodes, or total? I'm hoping visible, as a curved stairway I'm working on has over a thousand! I haven't intersected the entire thing yet...will my node-count drop when I intersect it into a single brush? __________________ "SO brave knights, if you do DOUBT your strength OR your courage come no further because DEATH awaits you with big nasty pointy teeth!" "What an eccentric performance."

13th Jan 2001, 04:12 PM	#7
ChrisToth.hu Level Designer Join Date: Oct. 2nd, 2000 Location: Atlantis Posts: 2,740	200 poly is the best limit (for lowest end machines too and you can make specFX at this level) For an avg: 2.1 and 2.2 are good enough... I'm working on a 400 poly map at the moment and it has got 350-400 polygons in view and the node counts are at a very good level. The average is 1.7:1 (!). Try to keep the occlusion times low.... (fire up the Lag-o-meter - console: stat global) and check the Occ field. 10-15 is good but don't let it rise. -> cool zoning __________________ Chris Toth ------------- Chris@message.hu

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13th Jan 2001, 06:48 AM	#1
LunatiK Registered User Join Date: Jan. 13th, 2001 Posts: 1	hello i have a lot of experience in map editing since the day i got the doom-editor i've made many maps in quake2 for example, but many times i had problems with the limits of the q2 engine, my maps were simply too big. and i had a hard time finding info of the q2 engine limits. I have just started making maps in unreal, don't know why i didnt do it a long time ago.. so i am wondering if anyone can tell me the limits of the unreal engine and other stuff that would be good to know. like for example i read somewhere that Unreal/UT has a limit of 64 zones total and there is also a 3 zone 'see through' limit. stuff like that.. does anyone have any useful editing tips & info for me? thanks.

13th Jan 2001, 10:48 AM	#3
Ixus Your local scripter Join Date: Nov. 9th, 2000 Posts: 93	We are the knights of singwongtoooneeeeeekiekieekieekiepatang!

13th Jan 2001, 11:34 AM	#4
Fuzzpilz klkk Join Date: Jun. 28th, 2000 Location: :noitacoL Posts: 984	The poly counts aren't that important, but the node counts are. You want to keep these below 150-200. The 3 zone limit is for things like mirrors and warp zones, I think. For example, if you put two mirrors opposite to each other and step between them, you can't see more than 3 "steps" of reflection, and you also can't see through more than 3 warp zones in a row. You can try that by making a short corridor that loops back into itself.

13th Jan 2001, 02:12 PM	#6
Fuzzpilz klkk Join Date: Jun. 28th, 2000 Location: :noitacoL Posts: 984	Visible, of course. Some of Unreal's maps had over 20000 polys total. If you type "stat fps" in the console, you'll see the amount of polys currently visible after "polys" and the nodes next to "nodes". Nodes are essentially the things that are the result of BSP cuts. You should also try to keep the node/poly rate as low as possible, under 2 if you can.