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Old 27th Oct 2000, 01:47 PM   #1
[MUTTS] Das
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A poll, please.

I have seen many people in various threads decrying spawn sniping on Face and similar maps.

I always considered the definition of lameness to be either: a) straight cheating; or b) preventing other people's (reasonable) participation in the game. That includes major portal camping an enemy base and totally preventing access to their own resources to play.

But we're living in a time when it's frag-or-be-fragged. Take the Crash UT 28-person server. Anyone standing in one place for 2 secs...spawning or not, gets headshot. Either team. Any game. You could argue it's a "flaw" in the map design, but that's just the way Face is. Love it or leave it, IMHO.

As a result, I have no qualms about sniping spawn areas on that map. I don't however, snipe people as they spawn...I usually give them a few seconds to make a run for it or get a weapon and then nail them. I don't ever want to be accused of not giving others any chance. I also don't snipe from the spawn area, which is normally protected, or from the enemy base.

There is a skill to being a sniper. Everyone talks about the great fun they have taking-out sitting snipers, and there's the opposite story as well: the skill you need to have to be a good, consistent sniper that is able to fend off those attacks. On a big server, you will always be found-out.

On the Crash server, there are a few guys...one guy that annoys the hell out of me (but not really) named Hammer_Time....who runs around with his piston nailing everyone and camping every portal....and I think it's totally lame, but totally legitimate. He's got a strategy that he sticks to, you can counter it, and it's risky for him...but he's skilled at it.

Likewise, I consider myself a great sniper...not just in aim, but in knowing when to move. When to get the quick headshot, when I can make a return. Knowing how to counter the trans- and hammer-guys. Taking out 5 guys coming up the hill, transing the whole way, as they make an attack on our base. There's never a question on whether I've helped the team in doing so.

Sniping annoys the hell out of everyone. I myself hate being sniped. But it's part of the game, it takes skill to do it well and make points consistently, and there are some situations in which anything goes.

Anyone that's played with me knows I'm always reasonable, polite and fair, but to play Devil's Advocate, sometimes war is won by brawn, sometimes by strategy, and sometimes by cunning.

Spawn-sniping on Face - where do you draw the line?

What's lame anymore and what isn't? I think things are becoming less-and-less lame the longer we play, since people know the lame moves and know how to counter them.

....And as for all you hammer-whores, come get me!!!!


-Scott
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 02:08 PM   #2
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My personal rules (well, more like guidelines ) of honor are:

1. No spawn sniping. Like you, I give them a chance to move, then pop'em. If they're lucky or good, they only get winged, or maybe get away untouched. If not, well, maybe they'll spawn on the other side next time...

2. No hammer camping in the enemy base. My own base, however, is mine to do with as I please. I was on Face once, and the enemy team followed the same procedure every time - grab the flag, up to the top of the tower, and out. After 3 caps this way, I took old Mr. Reliable and camped out up top. After popping his @ss several times, they changed their tactics. (BTW, the guy had a great though expense way of fragging me - he grabbed the Redeemer, then went through the portal. Needless to say, I hammered his ass - and the Redeemer he was carrying landed in my hands. Can you say inadvertant Redeemer suicide? I knew you could...)

3. I won't camp in a spawn area - I will, however, patrol the spawn areas on Face if folks are sniping from them, and if some spawners get caught in the crossfire, them's the breaks.

4. I have no qualms about fragging someone that's typing. This should sum up my position:

5. I will always try to even the teams, skill-wise and people-wise. I've been on the receiving end of enough ass-whoopings to know it ain't fun. A competitive game is always better, IMHO.

6. I always try to end the game with a "gg"

7. I try to refrain from engaging in mindless flamewars with 12 year old dip****s with names like 3733t_p3n1s_h4x0r - they usually have difficulty using multi-syllable words in any case.

8. I always try to leave some powerups or ammo for my teammates.

That's why I like to play with the folks who hang out here - you're almost assured that everyone on the server follows the same general guidelines. Except Hal - he's a greedy Bee-yatch
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 05:45 PM   #3
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SpawnSniping and PistonCamping are not "flaws" in the map IMO. A master mapper like Inoxx knew that they were in the design and left them there.

I know it is infuriating to get spawnsniped but there is nothing sweeter than getting revenge on that A-hole!

You'll never here me complain about FACE. I love it just the way it is.

Now, CORET is a different story...
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 06:52 PM   #4
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 08:40 PM   #5
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First, Das why are you playing on Crash? 28 people, come on... 2nd, as far as I'm concerned, if you are going to play on servers like these there should be no reason to ever aim your sniper at the spawn areas. (For many reasons)

With that many people in the game there should always be legitimate people to snipe coming over the hill or whatever.

2nd, it's not fun to be spawn sniped, even if you get a few seconds to move. Not everyone who plays this game is a ut god like you claim to be. You have to remember that these type of big servers attract newbies, and they might not be real good at dodging a sniper god like you. Give them a break.

Why don't you get on a real server once in a while. I'll guess that you are in some sort of clan with that tag, so why are you wasting time on a 28 person server, that constantly rotates face? Is this a face only clan that participates in ladder matches where both teams field 14 people?

If you want to have your fun once in a while, go ahead. But I'll invite you to come play on a real server and *then* we (not you) will be the judge of what kind of skill you have with the sniper rifle.

I don't understand your complaint about taking the other teams resources? They should be taking their stuff themselves so you cant get it.

I'll draw a line for you.
--------------------------------------------------
Face - lame
Spawn sniping - lame
28 people servers - lame
You - lame (any jerk with a sniper rilfe can look good on face sniping spawn spots.. but of course, you give them a few seconds to move) lol, however you want to justify it, it's still sad.
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 08:48 PM   #6
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Just like to add that anyone who kills a person talking is a stat-whore or llama, one of the two, maybe both.

This is a game people. It is supposed to be played for fun. I enjoy telling people nice shot, or whatever in the middle of a game. But then to have someone blow you away while you are trying to give someone a compliment is just lame. Just walk by them if you see they are talking.

You don't need that 1 extra frag, you don't need to impress anyone with your stats or your score in the game. Trust me, if you are good then you will get recognition. But if you kill people when they are talking you will never be recognized because people will see how far you will stoop to get 1 frag against a totally defenseless person.

i feel sorry for people who have this compulsion. If you ever see me on a server talking, feel free to take your best shot, I want to know what kind of people I am playing with.

And I definetly want to help you boost those stats!
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 10:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by [MUTTS] Das

I always considered the definition of lameness to be either: a) straight cheating; or b) preventing other people's (reasonable) participation in the game.

...As a result, I have no qualms about sniping spawn areas on that map. I don't however, snipe people as they spawn...I usually give them a few seconds to make a run for it or get a weapon and then nail them. I don't ever want to be accused of not giving others any chance. I also don't snipe from the spawn area, which is normally protected, or from the enemy base.

On the Crash server, there are a few guys...one guy that annoys the hell out of me (but not really) named Hammer_Time....who runs around with his piston nailing everyone and camping every portal....and I think it's totally lame, but totally legitimate


...Anyone that's played with me knows I'm always reasonable, polite and fair, but to play Devil's Advocate, sometimes war is won by brawn, sometimes by strategy, and sometimes by cunning.

....And as for all you hammer-whores, come get me!!!!


-Scott
[muTTs] Das



All of the above is only parts of what he said, but it's what I want to discuss. So starting at the top....

Preventing other people's reasonable participation in a game. Das I have seen you on Crash already and you're as big of a spawnsniper as anyone. I can't begin to count the times I spawn, only to have my head taken off one second later by you.

Sniping spawn areas: covered that already.

The guy that uses the hammer named Hammer_Time: yes I use the hammer almost exclusively on that server, but I have never used that name. Although I should make a keybind to say "Stop... Hammer time!" every time I splatter someone.

Reasonable, polite and fair: I beg to differ. Come down off that tower and fight me instead of hiding behind your rifle, Das. Not a few times have I been spawnsniped or chatkilled by you. Chatkills I can forgive these days... God knows what they're typing to teammates. Of course, on this server, everyone knows what's in store for them, so I have no sympathy for people who get nailed Likewise I expect none, since I know what's there... what I disagree with you on is the fact that you try and come across like a nice guy, then in the server you're as bad as anyone else for spawnsniping and that. Get off that tower, get into the battlefield, and face me with your Hammer. THEN you can brag.

True, you did say that in some situations, anything goes... but I mean, how satisfying is it to shoot at unarmed people? (Do you really consider the Enforcer a weapon? Not with monster ping. I use the Hammer as a result.)

Buuut... don't take any of this personally, just as constructive criticism... you're not as perfect of an angel as you say you are.

Of course, nail me on fair grounds ie NOT on the tower and then you'll get yer praise from me for showing skill in other areas, not just sniping. Deal?
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 11:22 PM   #8
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First off, I refuse to play a server with more than 14 (maybe 16) people max. It just turns into a spam fest after that.

1. Spawn Sniping: NO! When (if?) I do snipe on Face, I always have a "no-shoot" area until they can get out past their base. It they don't have the x-loc out trannying like crazy by then, they'll lose their head.

2. Portal camping: HELL NO!! Maybe if your camping your own portals because some ass keeps getting into your base and causing havoc by hit and run. But never ever camp the other enemies portals. That's hella lame. I love it when I get smeared though, because I xloc up the side of the castle and score a telefrag. I can guarantee I never get portal-hammered twice.

I don't care if it's "just part of the game" I think it's hella lame and I make it my personal duty to telefrag the sh[/i]it outta them! And I've been getting quite good at it too
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Old 27th Oct 2000, 11:32 PM   #9
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Nightmare and Kamikaze, I'm glad to see you guys are making some good points. I thought this was going to be an uphill battle the whole way, but it looks like their are other level headed people out there.

I'd just like to add two points. If you spawn snipe someone or portal camp them, then guess what? They might start doing it themselves. That's all we need are more people employing tactics such as these. It's for this reason I never have and never will use these in a game.

2nd point, as I mentioned earliers, Newbies may frequent these servers with high player counts. If you are so good don't ruin it for a person who is just starting out. Das, if you haven't noticed yet there are servers with different levels of skill. If you think you are good on crash, come play on Swine or The Roost and give yourself a challenge.

General Notes:
CTF can actually be a fun game if you pick up the flag once in a while and chase down a flag carrier here and there as opposed to hiding in your dark niche shooting people in the head all day long.

I've never seen a sniper win a CTF game. He can't cap flags and if he gets a flag kill he can't return the flag, so what's he good for?
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 12:07 AM   #10
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hmm..

this is one of the reasons that I don't play weapons. enhanced shock rifles (unless you're using the zoomshock mutator) have no widely known zoom function.. and the only way you can zoom with the ESR is considered a cheat, for some reason. I hate being sniped as much as the next guy, but I don't think its worth the time to complain about it.

obviously, Das and I have different fighting styles. I like dueling.. getting up in people's faces and somewhat proving that I havea more fragging power than him/her. yeah, I realize that this isn't doing much for my team, but there's my ego to consider. I couldn't stand still long enough to be a sniper anyway.. and I'm fine with that. Das might not have the moves to be an IG duelist, and I'm sure he's fine with that.

people do get bent out of shape about things like this though. I was on an IG LMS server and it was pretty empty.. I think the map was DM-Gothic or maybe DM-Tempest. I was running around and I came across someone that was typing.. so I do what I usually do.. strafe around infront of them and wait for them to stop typing. well, apparently my reflexes were too quick for them, because I basically killed them right after he/she pressed enter and started walking around. after that, he/she called me a llama and (I think) left the server. not much later, my connection died so I left as well..

heh, I actually got accused of cheating earlier today. I was on an IG CTF server on Bollwerk working on offense.. I probably would have made assembly line caps had it not been for that damn Archon. heh, someone from DFB (may not be the same dreadful fear brigade but *shrug) actually said I was good for a HPW.. which I guess wasn't too bad since he was kicking my ass. anyway, after he left we won 5-1 I believe.. then at the start of the next map one of the guys that was on the opposite team said "Alright Ensign, turn off the aimbot"
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 02:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corny
Just like to add that anyone who kills a person talking is a stat-whore or llama, one of the two, maybe both.

Just walk by them if you see they are talking.

You don't need that 1 extra frag, you don't need to impress anyone with your stats or your score in the game.
I couldn't disagree with you more - especially in CTF!

If it's an exceptionally friendly game - lots of talking, horsing around, etc. - I usually won't kill chatters(as long as they're not anywhere near my base). I might even stop and wave or do a little dance. But in any normal game, I'm going to assume that they're communicating strategies to their teammates and take them out. Come on, some guy is standing in my base chatting, and I'm supposed to stand around and wait for him to finish? Or as you suggest, just walk by him, and leave him with my flag? Please. I've been shot in the back by chatters enough times to know that you don't turn your back on them.

I frequently chat with people during games. Usually it's to compliment someone on their gameplay - but I do so at my own risk and I fully expect to get nailed if an enemy catches me doing it. For that reason I at least try to chat in an out of the way place - not like some of the m0s I've seen who chat right inside my base and then whine about typekilling.

And if I kill someone chatting, it's because I've got better things to do in a game than to FIRST try to figure out if someone is chatting or not AND THEN decide if I should stand around and wait for them to finish. It's not because I'm looking for an easy kill.

Thanks.
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 06:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Allison
Quote:
Originally posted by Corny
Just like to add that anyone who kills a person talking is a stat-whore or llama, one of the two, maybe both.

Just walk by them if you see they are talking.

You don't need that 1 extra frag, you don't need to impress anyone with your stats or your score in the game.
I couldn't disagree with you more - especially in CTF!

I frequently chat with people during games. Usually it's to compliment someone on their gameplay - but I do so at my own risk and I fully expect to get nailed if an enemy catches me doing it. For that reason I at least try to chat in an out of the way place - not like some of the m0s I've seen who chat right inside my base and then whine about typekilling.

And if I kill someone chatting, it's because I've got better things to do in a game than to FIRST try to figure out if someone is chatting or not AND THEN decide if I should stand around and wait for them to finish. It's not because I'm looking for an easy kill.

Thanks.
I agree with you 100 %. I find a good place to type, and i expect to get killed when i type, no matter how good hiding place it is. One rule in UT: Never stand still.When i chat i know i'm going to get killed by somebody.I kill Chatters most of the time because:

1) If they are in my base chatting, i frag them because I play as D and i have to clear the base.

2) If i attack and see an enemy chatting, he might be telling the D that I'm in their Base

3) If i have the enemy flag and see somebody chatting well.....Duh..I have to kill anyone that might be able to frag me.

Also DM's other name is FREE FOR ALL. If i see a chatter, i say frag em! Play CTF if they dont like it.

I expect the enemy to feel the same way, so if you see me chatting you know you can frag me if you want, I wont mind.

Of Course as Allison said, if it's a very friendly game then i wont do things like this. And i dont think you PuFers should worry about me "chat killing" you in DM. Tho i cant promise anything....
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 09:52 AM   #13
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Angry

Yea, being called lame becaues I killed someone while typing pisses me off. If you need to say something, go up on your roof or behind your base and say it. If I really need to say something important and I'm not in any of those places, I'll usually feign death, type, and then get back up.
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 10:30 AM   #14
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Lightbulb

OK....let the flames begin!!!!! Somehow I knew I'd touch a nerve.

A few arguments:

1) Corny, you have little idea of how long I've played with PuFfers (eight months?), about 2-4 times per day before bedtime unless otherwise occupied. And of that time, about 2-5% is spent sniping, EXCEPT on the Crash server. So your challenges of inviting me to a "real server" to play hardly account for the fact that that's where I am for almost all the time. And anyone that wants to say "come down off of your perch," "I challenge you to a REAL match," whatever....I'm often in PU chat....just follow me into a game and have your way with me. I'm a good player, I think, not nearly the best, but I hold myself as an equal to the majority of us that have played since UT first came out. That's not a boast....it's just so you know that I'm hardly someone looking for a quick stat boost, and I consider sniping one of my skills that I use in certain situations, and not a way-of-life.

2) Also Corny - If you think a 28-person server is lame, then why even comment?

That's because that's a HUGE point in this. That on a 28-person Face server, THAT particular server, there are dozens of spawn-snipers, portal campers, redeemer whores, etc.... My point is that it's as close to a free-for-all as you can get, and sniping is part of the game. Particularly part of *that* game. If you want a 10-person Face game where everyone is sweet and nice and no one ever snipes at the spawn areas....well, first, that doesn't exist, and everyone knows that to be true. Hence, why you're saying Face is lame. My whole argument is based on the idea that: A) Sniping takes a certain TYPE of skill on Crash, because there are tons of people blowing the hell out of each base and they come for you quick; B) It's legitimate in certain situations to camp and snipe.; C) We try to apply moral rules to something that is an entertainment version of a war-situation, which is totally amoral (and immoral).; and D) There's just a time where you accept it, modify or improve your playing style and skills to account for it, and become a better player in the meanwhile.

After all, dudes, just trans! Not forward, but side-to-side. I'll never be able to hit you. Simple and totally effective. HPBs and newbies might have a little more trouble with that, but a 28-person server isn't really a place for an HPB anyway, since they're guaranteed to lag.

As for 3) Nightmare's accusations which make it seem like I'm routinely killing talkers or spawn sniping....NO! I don't, ever, and if I do and realize it, I usually apologize. If I ever, ever kill someone talking, it's because I didn't have a chance to realize they were before firing. Or, I follow what Allison said. If you're chatting at an enemy base on a 28-person server, then you're realllllyyyy foolish. Since I play defense, it's not likely I'm racking up chat kills on the other side of the field....

The idea that I'm **routinely** headshotting people as they spawn is also false. I already admitted to sniping at spawn areas on that server.....God, there would be 300 liars around here if others claimed to never do the same. Becomes somehow, half the times I spawn, someone takes ***my*** head off. So obviously people are spawn-sniping pretty regularly. But I don't care, really, because I'm not a stat-whore. I consider it part of the game. So Nightmare, if I took your head-off and you weren't well on your way out of the spawn-area, I apologize, but it's most definitely not my *policy* and I'm not sitting there trying to boost stats by doing so. There are actually more efficient ways to get a higher kill-to-death ratio, anyway.

The times that I will willingly shoot people in the head as they spawn is when the flag runner (ours) emerges from the base and has 4-6 new spawners chasing after him. Then I will happily take any heads off I can find, without prejudice, to give him a chance to escape. No apologies, just like no one apologizes the two-dozen times I get headshotted in the same scenario...and I never ask them to.

And 4) When I talk about Hammer_Time, I'm talking about a player named "Hammer_Time." He is one of the many absolutely unforgiving portal campers on that server. And I don't have a problem with him, to be honest, even though he annoys the sh*t out of me. That's because it's appropriate to that map, practically every single player is doing the same or similarly "lame" things, and I know how to beat him at his own game. It becomes fun to have that personal competition and I actually respect him for developing a tactic to the point that he's effective with it (against people with rocket launchers!)

Hey, my whole point in this stuff isn't to come out and defend spawn-snipers, lamers, llamas, etc...., or to be one. My point is to say that sniping takes skill. It's totally frustrating for the people getting sniped, but it's a fact of life for Face and it's even more a fact of life for Face on Crash. If you want an RA tournament....go play RA. If you want DM, play DM....if you want a certain style of CTF....there are over 1000 servers out there that aren't 28-person Face servers.

People tend to yell "lame" when they don't know how to counter tactics that sometimes seem foolproof. I'm suggesting that many tactics we traditionally consider "lame" become less-so when you're aware of them and people are doing them in a mass way. Then it just becomes part of the game, and I think much less frustrating to be up against.

And I'm not an advocate of spawn-sniping. Quite the contrary. I'm trying to make a fine point about when it's OK and when it's not OK to use certain tactics, and get an idea from others about where they draw the line.

I think Danger_Dude and Allison both have good policies in that regard.

-Scott
[muTTs] Das

(these are my own views of course, and shouldn't reflect at all on my bro's in the clan)
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 02:00 PM   #15
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I'd like to add my 2 cents worth in regard to type killing.

If I am at your base ready to get your flag and I see you (even if I know that you are typing) then I am going to kill you. My reasons are simple. I don't know what kind of weapons, armor, or ammo that you are holding. If I let you live, then you hear the flag alarm go off, you are going to stop typing and come after me. If I would've killed you, then I know that at least for a few seconds all you are going to have is an enforcer, 100 health, and no armor. I will have a much easier time getting past you if that is all that you have.

Killing a person wipes out their inventory. That in itself is enough reason to kill them, typing or not. They can have 2 redeemers in their inventory, and if they die holding anything other than a redeemer, then both of those redeemers are lost forever.

The above also applies if you are at my base. If I let you live, and move on to something else, you are way closer to my flag after you stop typing than if I would've killed you and put you back at your base.

I agree that spawn sniping is lame, because only after a short time after person spawns are they a threat to me and my team, not at the exact moment they spawn. At any other time, they are a threat and they will be dealt with accordingly, typing or otherwise.

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Old 28th Oct 2000, 02:20 PM   #16
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well das I wasn't *accusing* you of it, I just wanted you to know that I don't like it is all.

Its good we're talking about it instead of arguing and name calling.

I don't have a problem getting sniped, hell I expect it. ESPECIALLY at Crash. Its the SPAWNsniping I have a problem with. And yes Das I do realise it isn't ONLY you doing it..

Chatkilling? I never said I disapprove. Sure Idon't like it but what if I am giving directions to my team? I don't like it, but I say go ahead and shoot me. No telling what I am typing. I could be saying hi or telling my team that there is a red guy in the back of our base with the flag. Likewise, I have no qualms these days about doing it to other people. So you're gonna rag on me, fine. Come get me. In a DM I won't do it though cause a DM is friendly, no teams. In a Team game, watch out! I see you, I kill you, typing or not.

alright Das... if you're chatting at an enemy base you DESERVE to be killed.
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 02:33 PM   #17
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Lightbulb Simply....

If you want to make yourself a target chatting, you can choose if, when and where. When you respawn, you have no choice but to be a target. To take advantage of that target is IMO wrong. Well, usually.
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Old 28th Oct 2000, 02:51 PM   #18
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If it's an exceptionally friendly game - lots of talking, horsing around, etc. - I usually won't kill chatters(as long as they're not anywhere near my base). I might even stop and wave or do a little dance. But in any normal game, I'm going to assume that they're communicating strategies to their teammates and take them out. Come on, some guy is standing in my base chatting, and I'm supposed to stand around and wait for him to finish?
[/B]
Alright, I see I should of been a tad more specific since everyone is so interested in this topic

First of all, when I'm playing a CTF game on a public server, to me, every game is a "friendly" game. I'm out to have fun.

Second, if you see someone typing in a game, 99% of the time they won't be talking strategy... I mean come on.. public servers?

Thrid, it never occured to me that someone would stop to chat in your base. I can see how you would view this as a problem. Sure... I may stop in the middle of a high traffic area to say a couple words... if i get killed fine, like I said, the fun factor is more important to me. It never occured to me though that there are a lot of people who would do this. So please, go ahead and kill them.

My real problem is getting type killed right after you spawn. That's the best time to talk, and you will usually spawn in your base. Most people know where the spawn points are, and they know you are totally defenseless.

Just like to add I like the idea of feighing death and then typing. I don't use that nearly enough.



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Old 28th Oct 2000, 03:58 PM   #19
[MUTTS] Das
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Yes, I agree. every game is a "friendly game."

And this is entertainment, not war, so there are rules and things that are acceptable.

One important point is that there's a reason why Inoxx stuck a spawn point in full view of the opposing base's spawn point, complete with a rifle and no ammo packs. There's another reason why he stuck 5 SR ammo packs in the middle of the base, a redeemer, and 3 more SR ammo packs up top. I doubt it was an accident or ignorance on the part of a great mapper.

And spawn-sniping isn't really effective of winning points in the long-term, by any means. First of all, you have to be out in the open to get a good view, making snipers very vulnerable. Second of all, there are six to eight different spots for spawners to appear, meaning you would have to be really quick or just settle on one point, and count on the fact that the people spawning there aren't good with a trans.

When it becomes effective....and totally annoying for people...is when 4-5 members of one team all start spawn-sniping against the same area from *their" spawn point. They can obliterate every enemy spawner and frustrate the hell out of the opposing team. Of course, if they are doing that they're not capping flags, and they'll probably lose the overall game anyway.

I just think that there are certain "lame" things that are so pervasive, so common in certain situations, that there is little point in being the one to be the virtuous one about it. When I see three guys on the enemy team sniping at my team's spawners from their spawn area, I'm really not going to decide it's wrong to snipe at them. And I see that at Crash all the time. If I see a Cow, running straight forward, not using it's trans, it's probably a newbie and I'll leave him alone. I know that sounds stupid and a little too moral to be true, but I don't want some newbie getting headshotted 4 times and then bailing on a server pissed at UT. My goal is moreso to get the four good enemy players coming up the hill, one with the health and one with the amp, and taking them all out before they even begin to go for a flag grab.

I use a similar "lame" tactic after enemy flag grabs. If I'm on the roof (my own roof), I whip my piston out and camp the portal. It almost always ends up in a flag return, because every offensive player takes the high route up-and-out. Is that lame? Not in my book. Why should I let the enemy carrier escape with our flag or control our roof? If he gets hammered 3x, that guy that normally gets 150 points/game by going out the roof is going to think twice and is going to try the front door instead.

I think it's different if you take a rocket launcher with 40 rockets and hang out in an enemy spawn point. Then you're not even beginning to give people a chance. And there are still plenty of people that do that.

I have great fun in these games. I've never been flamed (If I have, it's been teasing) for sniping. I've been complimented by enemy team members, saying "good sniping blue" or something like that. Often, good players get annoyed at losing their head and then try to hunt me down over and over, and we have impromptu "grudge matches" that always leave us respecting each other more than hating each other.

CHATKILLING:
I think something people have to keep in mind about chat killing is when and how it happens. Most players pre-load rockets, so by the time they can see you're talking, they're ready to fire anyway. Most snipers can't tell you're talking at all from a distance. If I need to talk on Face, I either feign death (so many players don't even think to touch you, or respectfully don't touch you) or I go into the shadowed corner by the spawn point to chat. I don't think I've ever been killed back there.

Also, binding your standard team commands and taunts, even LOL, gets around having to chat most times.

And Nightmare, of course we're just talking about this stuff instead of name-calling. Most UTers, even when you disagree with them about morals, are polite and mature. It's just the llamas that give people in general a bad reputation.

HEADSHOT!

-Scott
[muTTs] Das



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Old 20th Jul 2005, 12:47 AM   #20
EL BOURIKO
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when I chat with people on the pitch i assume the fact that i do so at my own risk, and if i get fragged then i knew the risk that it would happen. that s the reason why you should expect me to shot at you if you type while playing, because i consider that you know the risk you take too.
if you wanna chat, try to do it in some "safe" place
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