Flak Cannon = No Skill

[Ultron]

Originally posted by hal
Would anyone here argue against the point that the Redeemer just 0wnz the BFG?

Yeah the BFG in Q3A has too little ammo. I want to spread destruction for a little while before it runs out of ammo. But at least with the Redeemer it's one shot, one kill should you score a hit, or get anywhere close.

[Ultron]

Yeah the minigun and pulse both kill very fast but both of those weapons are hardly spam weapons. The primary Pulse can be spam because the plasma balls are fairly slow but this also makes it less effective in comparison to other weapons. BTW-Has anyone mastered the primary Pulse?

Good point. I've gotten good with the Pulse Gun though. It's like the RL as you have to time the shot and lead the opponent. But they are more visible than rockets. However they fire much faster and per second they offer more damage with direct hits. However there is no splash damage.

The Rocket Launcher takes time to wind up those rockets, 6 is overkill IMO but most Rocket Jockeys only wind up around 3 anyway. True, 6 rockets is almost always overkill. Plus that's like 6 seconds you aren't firing a weapon.

Shock Rifle is indeed powerful but there's definitely an art to the combo. Good Shock Rifle duels are pure bliss. People tend to spam the combo at times but the ammo toll somewhat balances things out, maybe not quite enough though. And yet again some people will spam the secondary fire as a last resort in a close quarter fight. Still the Shock is has to be one of UT's highlights.

I agree with you there.

I already ragged on the Ripper, it sucks monkey balls

It's cool to me because it's such a different weapon. It's quite lethal.

Secondary RL, hmm never thought about that one, probably because its not quite as popular for spamming and easier to avoid. Once again these get wound up so most people can anticipate.

It's just about like the GL in Q3A, except that you can load them up.

[Robo-Junkie]

Exactly right Skumboy. I didn't pay $40 for UT, just so someone who sux with the flak cannon can call me skill-less just cuz he's dies everytime he faces someone with it. If you don't like it, learn how to dodge or just don't play online, it's that simple. :|

[Kokensu]

I don't think a show of skill needs to have consequences. If me and some other guy go play a game of basketball, we're just PLAYING. No money involved, no career, just two guys playing a game. If we both suck real bad then you might say whoever wins is based on who was luckier. But if we've both played a little before then whoever has the most SKILL will win. We didn't play our entire lives to have this one basketball game, it was just for fun. But there IS skill involved. Just because UT is a computer game doesn't take out the fact that there is some skill. Maybe not in just putting crosshairs on a guy and clicking your mouse, but there's some strategy involved in outthinking the other guy(especially in CTF or DOM or Assualt). Just think about it like that.

As for the Flak cannon. In unreal the flak did less damage and didn't spread out so much, I think Hal said this. In UT it does more damage and spreads alot more. Also in UT the shards tend to bounce around more and last longer. I don't see this as such a bad thing. Most of the times I DO kill myself with the flak primary are because some little piece of flak is floating around and smacks me in the eye. These "features" raise the suicide possibility. That's all.
Every weapon in UT takes some "skill" to learn how and when to use. I know this is just a game and some people probably do take it too seriously. But I'll argue about some points, like weapons and what not, and the notion of SKILL, as much as I would about a certain technique in basketball, or table tennis, or pool, all of which I play for FUN.

[Robo-Junkie]

I'm surprised someone hasn't put up a post b*tching about people using the Pulse Gun on Morpheus (& no, I'm not bitching about the pulse gun on morpheus, I like slicing into people that aren't more aware )

[bodkins]

Hi,

DividedSky .... sniff .... I'm so proud of you ... (How was Mrs. Davis?)

Ultron, you are a "skilled" quoter. I'm jealous.

Skum, you payed for UT so you have the right to use the weapons you payed for. BTW, wanna sell your shock? Please?

Thanks

Jim
bodkins@prologic.com

[SkummyB|BuF]

I might sell you the shock if you offer me the right price - but you will NEVER have my BioRifle!!!!!!

[XxBonesxX]

Hey bodkins hehe my count is one of those you have to pull a lever and hope you hit the jackpot kind of count i'm still looking for the lever to pull

[Maelstrom[152ID]]

Too HPB's using any weapon creates spam...ever try to dodge a minigun attack with 500+ ping and massive ploss? It just ain't gonna jive the way you want it too, It takes a lot more 'skill' to beat a multirocketeer with a flak cannon than you think, and being able to bounce it around corners is great, surprise the hell outta enemies. I could discredit all the weapons in the game if I wanted to, but they're all good and the game is balanced, so go suck a pineapple if you don't like the flak or something else =)

[ZenOps]

To flak effectively takes a small degree of skill. The reason that newbies like flak is that it is a general area weapon that works extremely well at close range and tight hallways. A veteran flakker, like a veteran rocket launcher will jump just before shooting at non jumping opponents in order to get a better angle. Doing this effectively and not suiciding in the process takes a great deal of skill. You can have a terrible ping and still be an effective flakker, the same cannot be said for sniping.

Flak effectively counters most weapons, but not all. A good sniper will take out a flakker long before he gets into effective range. A fully loaded slime/goo gun will take out a fully shielded with health opponent. A steady hand, minigun and damage amplifier makes swiss cheese out of everyone at any range. I have never gotten a godlike with the majority of kills being flak, shockrifle combo yes, minigun and amp yes, rocket launcher yes.

Flak is not overpowered.

[[K]FlyingMonkey]

I got yelled at for using Flak on a LMS Match today. I ran out of Rockets and shock, so I used Flak - How Dare ME!!

Hehe, when someone says ''Flak is cheap'' I just respond with ''that's nice'', or ''but it still killed you.''

Everyone bitches about something. On face, you get yelled at for using the redeemer. On Niven, Shock Whores are looked down upon.

Bah, the weapon was put there for a reason...
I used Flak way too much when I started playing - because yes - it is the easiest weapon to use. But, Try killing me with the flak cannon now. Dodging is a great thing.

I just laugh at these people. I find it funny that they don't like a certain weapon, yet they still play the game. It's like someone playing on Face and getting mad about Spawn Campers. It's like.. d'uh.. what did you think was going to happen.

my 1 cents (i lost my other penny)

[Morety]

If you don't like something, learn how to get around it. It'll make you a better player. Weapons can be spammed or used skillfully. A good player will adjust their game accordingly, and NOT whine.

[Maelstrom[152ID]]

Basically it all comes down to people who are afraid to lose that gripe about weapons...ask anyone I play with, the only thing I gripe about is my high ploss with my dialup (Which is happily changing). I dislike USING Multirockets, because I enjoy using Instant Rocket Fire better, but thats my honest opinion..Its like playing Team Fortress Classic...people say the HWG is for newbies, usually I respond by saying: Good for it, or Show me one major website that says it is and I'll agree...

usually that works well enough to shut them up, or I just laugh when they make fun of me cause I'm using the HWG. Honestly if people can't cope with the weapons they should go play tetris or something, at least there, their childish gripes sound nuttier than usual:

"DAMN I need a block, gimme a block you stupid Cheating Computer! Unfair! It takes more skill to use a block!"

[darklite]

heh, I guess thats what happens when you go on vacation for a week: you miss all the nice flames!

anyway, I've only been able to read the first three pages before I felt like replying, so just ignore me if I'm being redundant.

speaking as a person who's been here for probably around five months so far and witness around three or four "flak sucks" threads, all (well, okay, I'm lying about that) I've to say is: get over it. if you hate flak whores so much, play instagib! I play IG almost exclusively, and I'm probably a semi-"normal" hpw with a ping ranging from 250-350, and I do fine. people have even assumed I was on cable or something like that.. heh, naw.. I don't have a big head.. I just sound like it

If you can't live with flak, play Q3A or something. The flak cannon is there an I'm glad it is.

if you want my opinion, that's almost like stepping out of the frying pan and into frier. to tell you the truth, I've barely used anything besides the RL in Q3A. I've tried the railgun, but I never last very long because of the RL whorish bots. again, like I said earlier, he doesn't need to do something so drastic. just play instagib I have lots of IG servers in my favorites if you guys want them, but you can probably find a few threads where I've pimped them before

The part that most people are forgetting is the higher the pings is, the larger the lead is

I realize that, and anyone who doesn't just isn't thinking logisticly. the problem for me is figuring out how LONG I need to lead. obviously you have a better time than doing it than I do, but it takes me a while to get used to the lag.. (somewhat ironically) especially when its significantly lower than the server/ping I've been used to.

here are those that simply run around holding the button down on primary fire and kill eveyone and themselves. And there are those that use primary in controled bursts and more often use the secondary fire like a grenade launcher

I'm both, actually. believe it or not, I feel more comfortable with hitscan weapons and do better than with weapons such as the RL and flak online. I'm the latter offline.. but its not that hard to do considering how easy bots are to setup, atleast on the skill level I use. I try to be the latter online as well but in the heat of battle I throw any sort of strategy out the door and barely even realize I'm pressing prifire too often for the fire to even reigster.

[Pope]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but this is what I think.
I hate the damn flak cannon. I hate it because it IS a newbie weapon. Balanced weapons means exactly that: a weapon exists for HPBs and for people that havent acquired a lot of skills yet. In the hands of a medium range player (for some reason none of the good players use it - you figure that one out) it is damn annoying.

And I don't want to hear anything about the skill in the secondary: a direct hit from a secondary flak takes more than 200% health (no other weapon can do that in one shot).

I will not stop playing UT because of it , but I will also not stop crying "Flak Whore" when I feel I've done a lot of work during a match just to be flakked down from a long range spammer.

[Claymore]

Another load of crap.

Balanced weapons? they ARE balanced. there are lpb weapons and hpb weapons. All of the weapons have an sort of equal damage/time amount, and none of them is in any way heaps better than the other. and in case you didn't notice:

- LPB's ALWAYS have an advantage over HPB's
- "Balancend weapons" does NOT mean that a newbee has equal chance to kill a veteran than the veteran has to kill the newbee, skills DIFFER.
- shock combo does massive damage too, just like 6 rockets do. instant kill, just like a full load of snot. know your weapons.

And when you miss the secondary flak shot, you hardly do ANY damage at all. And good players also use the flak. maybe you just don't meet enough players.

[bodkins]

Hi,

With all due respect Pope, honest, you should have read the posts. Many players that I know are good, (better than anyone that has posted, sorry guys), use the flak. I have seen Kravnos use the flak. You beat him. I can't.

My experience is that the flak doesnt kill as quickly as most other weapons. Flak primary bleeds you to death. I don't use it unless I have to. (With my connection I have to most of the time).

A digression.

I fenced in college. I knew that there were "newbie" attacks that were a bad idea. (I studied under a a crazy Romanian army officer that defected to the west during the cold war. Jan Drimba). Initially, I wasnt good enough to stop these attacks even though I knew they were a bad idea. I spent a great deal of time explaining to "newbies" that the attack they had just scored with was a bad idea. Eventually I became good enough to easilly stop these "newbie" attacks and stopped explaining.

I see a parallel. Learn to counter flak. Once you do, you may stop explaining as well.

Thanks

Jim
bodkins@prologic.com

[Robo-Junkie]

Firstly, Pope, the flak alt fire doesn't come close to taking 200 health. I've had flak alt fire land right on my head before, & I lived to kill the d*ck that used it on me.

& I said this before to TDS, just becuz other people are better than you are with the flak cannon (wether they be high-pingers or lpb's), is no reason to call anyone using it a skill-less newbie. & calling it a hpb & newbie weapon is pretty narrow minded of you. If someone kills you with the flak, don't whine & b*tch about it & call them newbies, give them the compliment the so richly deserve for killing you (unless ofcourse they were spawn camping )

[Pope]

I do not call a lot of people flak whores, only some. Hehe, I reserve that right.
From my experience, sole use of the flak cannon during an entire match is NEVER the practice of a skilled player. And I have had several hours on the servers.

Sorry ppl - I'm just too narrow minded.

[Kaz]

Sniper...you complain about flak and being a 56ker in a way earlier post. Well hate to break it to ya "buddy" but if you are on a modem, invisible flak...along with most other weapons are going to come your way.

Don't complain about a weapon you dislike when you have no perception of how it operates in the conditions you want to play in (broadband).

Until you get broadband (or till u can get) don't complain about weapons and the like...it is ok to make a point now and then about weapons and 56Kitus/56Kism but man wait until you get broadband if you are so worried about it.

Just incase you are wondering I am on broadband and although I can dodge flak and other weapons most of the time...I have been whored by a skillfull player by flak more then once as well as dished it out.

Any other questions don't hesitate to ask, thank you sir and have a good day

Kaz