Flak Cannon = No Skill

[Maelstrom[152ID]]

Resident Flak Whore Here:

After my decidely delayed comeback, I needed to find a post deserving of my attention, and thus I have...

If you wanna get rid of the flak, raise your hand and I'll blow it off for you. TDS think before you say something about a weapon, I could go into detail about every weapon being cheap, but I'll spare everyone the spam

The Flak takes a lot more skill than you think, its not our fault if you get killed by it all the time, or kill newbies with it, those who really know how to use the flak are rare, but I'm pretty sure theres quite a few of them out there.

As soon as Prim fire hits medium range it gets so spread out maybe one shard will hit, secondary takes skill to use...if you wanna gripe about a weapon, gripe about the redeemer in death match....in CTF it has a good purpose, but not in DM...

Anyway I could blab on but I'm gonna close by saying to all you people who hate the flak cannon: FLAK YOU!

PS: Reason for my depature, for those that care, I got a new ninja rig, and I'm getting DSL on the 26th of this month...can you say WHOOOOT? I knew you could.

Peace, Love, and FRAAAAAAAAG

[hal]

Yeah, I'm always game for talking about the merits of different weapons. But you can't just single one out and say "it requires no skill". All of them require some level of expertise. There is no one weapon that wins the day in UT. There is no magical, instant kill weapon. If there was one, everyone would use it and be godlike. But that doesn't happen...because there is no useless, skill-less weapon.

[[PuF]Evil_Beaver]

Personally I don't like the Flak Cannon. When I first started playing UT I would avoid using it just because I thought it was too unbalanced and cheap. Up until I quit playing UT, the Flak Cannon still wasn't a favored weapon but if the situation called for it, I used it. Its in the game so you really can't fault anyone for using it.

Now why do I dislike the flak cannon?

1. Primary fire rate: a bit too fast which promotes spamming. God only knows how much my blood pressure would rise whenever I encountered a person that ran around with the fire button held down.

2. Damage:For one of the easier weapons to use it delivers tremendous damage capable of destroying full health and armor with one hit. The BIOGUNS damage is justified because it a very difficult shot to make. The telefrag is kind of iffy, because its really not very easy to do but at the same time Epic fooked up since telefragging causes lag.

3. Able to fire around corners: Promotes spamming, can't really see the skill in this one?



If one or two of these things could be tweaked I think it would balance the weapon out perfectly.
Personally I would like to see the firing rate toned down just a little and take away the ability to fire around corners. The ability to fire around corners is pretty cheap IMO and I can't really think of a good reason to justify that feature, other than being newbie friendly.
Oh and that damn ripper need help too, freakin useless POS, except for the alt fire but only a handful of people ever use it.

The redeemer is more of a powerup really than a weapon and it serves as a control point. That's what justifies its destructive power and thats why you only get one shot. It was meant to be controlled just like any shield belt or damage amp.

Oh BTW- The Flak altfire is one of the most skillful weapons.

[Morety]

...love the status

[bodkins]

Hi,

All due respect Beav, but OMG. Skill? Are we talking skill? Who here in the largest sense has skill anyway. Anyone here being paid huge sums to play this game? I think it's ego. Sorry, nothing personal.

Skill is usefull in UT, but it is not the point. Having fun and maybe winning are the point. UT is not and should not be used as some test of "skill".

Skill? It's nice. I have a little, (not much). And I admire people that have a lot. But really this ia a game. Play it. Note the use of the word "Play".

Wanna test you skill? Take up something consequential like boxing. No skill == No Teeth.

Sorry Beav, just trying to inject a little perspective.

Thanks

Jim
bodkins@prologic.com

P.S.

Maybe the required skill relative to flak is NOT letting it kill you. Do you have THAT skill?

[XxBonesxX]

This is funny as hell I think I will sit back and watch the outcome as this topic unfolds

[XxBonesxX]

It is funny though







\\ \\

[bodkins]

What's funny Bones, is the number of your posts didn't change.

Thanks

Jim
bodkins@prologic.com

[[PuF]Evil_Beaver]

Interesting...

Skill is a huge part of it, your in denial if you say otherwise or instigating.

"Having fun and maybe winning are the point."
All of it is intertwined, losing isn't much fun and winning takes skill. Skill along with comradery is the reason why most people are still playing UT, people want to get better, people want to win.
I think you might have missed the point of my post I never said the Flak Cannon was skill-less but rather trying to point out that IMO it was unbalanced and could use soem tweaking.

"Wanna test you skill? Take up something consequential like boxing. No skill == No Teeth."

Why would I have to take up something consequential to test skill?

Bottom line, I made the post above to offer my point of view, I didn't mean to offend anyone and tried to be reasonable. I should have known better, I still stand by my post.

[hobart_paving]

ok, newbies complaining about stuff this like i can kinda understand. i mean, newbies can have a tough time on the servers and i'll give them a pass on that one. but people who have reached a decent level of proficiency with the game?

i consider myself a decent ut player and NOT ONCE have i ever seen a newbie with a flak cannon and been annoyed/scared/pissed. what kind of newbies are you guys playing? i've probably spent more time on mcswartzly, dreary, and ancient(possibly the three worst flak-spam maps...especially when it's 14 on 14) than anyone else on this board. that being said, i've never been intimidated by flak primary.

i can't dodge at all, but i never seem to have that much trouble avoiding flak primary. they can hold down the fire button all they want, but it's the secondary that's going to get me, not the primary.

and as for being able to fire around corners, i believe that's the reason they made the weapon a flak cannon and NOT a shotgun.

[bodkins]

Hey Beav,

I am not even a little upset. I'm not in the habit of using j/k or smilies etc. Sorry if you got upset. If we had had this conversation in person, you wouldn't have, I promise.

I understood your point. I was just pointing out that DividedSky's exams in school are a true test of skill. (Go ahead and prove me wrong DS). And they are real and consequential. If you do a skill based thing that is real and consequential and fail, you suffer the consequenses. That is a real test.

UT is a game. Skill is involved, but there really aren't any consequences. It's just play. Yes, I want to get better and I would rather win than lose. There are times that I actually prefer losing however. I won't win at all cost. You didnt say that.

And you are right. Just about everything in UT could use a good tweak. Problem is Cliffy and Timmy aren't going to do that.

You are a player and so am I. I will not allow myself to be your adversary in any way. I am on your side, whether we agree or not, honest. (Sometimes people read some kind of tone into what I write. I don't understand that yet. My boxing example was meant to exagerate the point about the consequences of a test of skill, not offend you. People that know me never have this problem. People that don't always do. I'm confused).

Please don't let me dissuade you from posting. I appreciate what you have to say. Whether I agree or not.

I hope this helps.

Thanks

Jim
bodkins@prologic.com

P.S.

If you were |C|Beav, then |C| is a much diminished clan if you have left. I have seen you play.

[hal]

Yep, bodkins, that's |C|Beav. I know the guy has skill, I always loved playing pickup games with him. Ahhh, the pre-|C| days... UT was but a babe

I don't think anyone would be sorry if Epic was to reduce the rate of fire in the next game. *Please include the FlakCannon, Epic!* The ROF was perfect in Unreal, the damage is perfect in UT. ...and it doesn't seem like the shards bounced around so much in Unreal.

[[PuF]Evil_Beaver]

Thats cool, Bodkins
It may seem silly but when I was active, I often felt alot of pressure during our clan matches, I guess its part of what makes ladder matches such a rush. There's no question that things were at stake especially considering |C|'s competitiveness, but to what degree?...I dunno, I did take things seriously though.

[[PuF]Evil_Beaver]

Yeah those were good times hal...*sigh*

[Maelstrom[152ID]]

Thanks Morety =) I'm gonna have a hard time thinking of something similar for each other ranking, or I may just be a true lazy butt and leave it as is, till I think of something better.

UT Cows Say - "m0!"

[hal]

lol! I just noticed what Morety was talking about...your "Inept" status.

[Robo-Junkie]

Hmm... I tend to disagree with what you guys said about the flak cannons rof. I've played both Unreal & UT & I like both flak cannons, however, I think UT's is much better than Unreal, just becuz they made the rof faster. When I'm usually playing with it, I usually don't get right up into that persons face, as they're usually jumping around, making them very hard to hit. I remember playing thru Unreal sp holding the flak cannon & facing a couple of skaarj. Letting them run close enuff to where I could hit them, only to have them dodge as soon as I fire & as I'm waiting for the damn thing to take it's sweet time reloading, both of the skaarj come up & start taking cheap shots at me! heheh Don't change the rate of fire! For goodness sakes, don't change it!!!!

[Ultron]

Originally posted by [PuF]Evil_Beaver
1. Primary fire rate: a bit too fast which promotes spamming. God only knows how much my blood pressure would rise whenever I encountered a person that ran around with the fire button held down.

2. Damage:For one of the easier weapons to use it delivers tremendous damage capable of destroying full health and armor with one hit. The BIOGUNS damage is justified because it a very difficult shot to make. The telefrag is kind of iffy, because its really not very easy to do but at the same time Epic fooked up since telefragging causes lag.

3. Able to fire around corners: Promotes spamming, can't really see the skill in this one?

1) and 2) Talk to me about the minigun and Pulse gun for rate of fire, not the Flak. 66 HP damage per primary energy ball, twice a second. 10 points per bullet in the minigun, 5 bullets per second, hitscan. Shock Rifle fires once a second for 66 health damage. Secondary 1.5 times a second with 80 points damage. Then there's the combo. Rocket launcher with up to six rockets fired, 100 points per rocket. That's by memory. Cleaner's FAQ will be more accurate, but you get the point.

3)RL secondary and Ripper primary both do this. Grenades do 100 HP damage and Bladehopper 66 or 150 HP, depending on location. Ripper has 50% faster rate of fire than the Flak.

I see nothing wrong with the Flak. It's unique and the RL doesn't have to be the most powerful weapon in every game. It isn't in Q3A. There's the BFG for that coveted title. And we know the Redeemer is in a class all it's own.

[XxBonesxX]

This is getting interesting as it goes along needless to say the flak gun is good in open maps, but one hell of a spamming weapon in tight maps WOW ! I mean to tell you! Take the goo gun very good in open space, but in tight maps look out hehe just goo the walls up and you have instant frag!! Some might think the mini gun is a spamming weapon, but it can be avoided with dodging even in tight spaces. Look all the weapons in UT have both their ups and downs it all comes down to the style, the map and who your aimming at that will affect how it is used.

[hal]

Would anyone here argue against the point that the Redeemer just 0wnz the BFG?