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Old 1st Sep 2000, 02:27 PM   #1
The Original Brother Ooze!
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"It's all I can stand....I can't stand it no more!"
- Popeye

The Issue:
UT's lack of support for custom skins is the only flaw that currently exists in the game design imho. Players don't use custom skins because servers won't use them. Servers won't use them because they force players to download them and install them before they can be seen. This includes cracking open the unrealtorunament.ini file and making chnages. THIS IS JUST TOO D@MN HARD! This is the ONLY game design element that Q3A has over UT.

The Future:
If Epic can be convinced to address this issue in an upcoming fix here is a glimpse of what the futue could look like:
- Well known players like Troll, jenny?, Dopefish and Rooster could also be instantly visually recognizable on servers.
- Clans could use custom skins to help further create their identity
- PuFers could where the PuF skins and further the recognition of "good sportsmanship" throughout UT
- Well known llamas would (undoubtedly) also be instantly recognizable because of thier skins. I liken this change to the evolution that took place moving from radio to TV... suddenly the game becomes more visually compelling!
- A Resurgence in UT takes place as new skin websites pop up all over the place and UT players flock to sites to make sure they have "all"of the skins! (Just like we flock to Nali city now to get the best maps!)

The Fix:
- A player is allowed to download a skin from the internet. A "umod like" utility allows them to install it on their machine (no more messing with .ini. files)
- PuF (or another group... MYU...Nali..) sets up a site of "approved" team skins for team games online. Team players top in once a week to make sure they've got all of the latest and greatets team skins!

What about skin cheats? Simply put, servers could easily remove "unfair" or unusual skins from there servers. The player would then be seen in one fo the UT Default models.

The Question:
Rooster, QAPete, Yellow 5 (or anyone else who knows) how do you recommend I approach getting my voice heard at Epic? Do I need to start a crusade? Take a hostage? (hehehe jk! ... in case the CIA/FBI/ATF is monitoring this board!) Start an Email them until there are annoyed campaign?

Consider me in this fight for the long haul... it needs to happen!

Winston,... 2+2=5!
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Old 1st Sep 2000, 04:43 PM   #2
Fear the Beard
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yeah, I'm with you ooze, more skins
Now more disease-infested than ever before!
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Old 1st Sep 2000, 05:17 PM   #3
(BoD) nepenthe
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Your ideas have merit. I too find it a little frustrating. Some of the custom Quake3 models and skins are fantastic.

But aren't you up against a simple logistical problem? That is, the server has to have whatever skin you want to wear... all players have to download that skin whether they wear it or not. Downloads take time. Few servers will voluntarily start carrying a ton of custom skins (and models, voicepacks, sound effects, taunts, etc., which is what I'd really like to see) on the off chance someone wearing the skin might stop by.

With maps and mutators, it's a little different. The game on that server doesn't run unless each player is willing to go get the map or the mutator or download it from the server. Skins don't really affect the game much (the gameplay, anyway), and they cater to a very few players who might not even show up, so there's obviously less call to add them to the server, unlike custom maps or new mutators.

I'd like to see custom skins used more in clan matches, assuming all parties agree.

By the way, has anyone started to notice it's getting harder to tell if someone is skin cheating or if the server's just in some varying degree of discombobulation?

One idea is to have any player attempting to join a server with a custom skin SEND that skin automatically to the server. The server would receive it, hold it, not let the player join until the next match, at which point all continuing or new players must now download the new skin. Not very elegant, I'm afraid.

I know it would defeat most of your purpose, but what if skins/models were client-side only? I think that would satisfy SOME people. What I mean is, everyone else sees a normal default skin, while you're actually running around with your custom skin/model. When you die, use behindview, look in a mirror, or watch a demo afterwards, what you see is your client-side custom skin.

I think there would be more of a push for this in servers if skins/models actually affected gameplay. Classes. Even Half-Life has altered bounding boxes (doesn't it?) depending on the player model. In standard UT, every model is exactly the same, gameplay wise.

I think if you look at the huge number of Face servers that aren't running (and never will run) spawnguard (very simple mutator to prevent spawn sniping), you'll see how hard it is to get anything to change.

On a different note, KS is having its first weekly Friday Night Frag Fest tonight, there's a thread around here somewhere... Just tell Skold or Spectre or Sir Robin or me what skin ya wanna use, and it'll be added, no sweat. Next week, ahm gunna play as Jarhead ( ). They'll add voice packs, sounds, custom maps (DOM maps), and even a mutator or two maybe...

Plus... this was from a post I made recently about skins... "You know, I find that a player's name, their tactics, their playing style, what role they take, and the way they present themselves when chatting or teamsaying really combine with whatever built in skin they're using to make individuals out of a lot of players. Work on distinguishing yourself this way, too."

I know, not much consolation. Also, go check out Real Tournament-- --they've done a couple of clan/texture related things, and they add new features all the time. They seem pretty open to ideas too. Go argue your case on their forum, see what kind of opinions you can get. RT is going to be really good when it's out the door, and subsequent releases will only get better.

Well, keep trying, hope I didn't discourage ya too badly
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Old 1st Sep 2000, 05:26 PM   #4
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Why not do it like, say, Quake 2, when the server had nothing to do with it.

If you use a skin I have, I see you. If you use a skin I don't have, I see you as a default model/skin. That way you don't have to worry about someone using an unfair skin ... just delete the skin from your own hard drive, and you'll see that guy using a default model/skin instead. Same could be true for voice packs.

Seems so easy ... I must be overlooking something
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Old 1st Sep 2000, 05:28 PM   #5
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How can you see custom skins in Q3A without having to download them?!
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Old 1st Sep 2000, 05:34 PM   #6
The Original Brother Ooze!
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Unhappy Nepenthe...

You have many good points in your post... however I am not going to quit! (and I don't think you were asking me too!)

Yes it true that the servers would have to load a pile of custom skins to keep up with demand... would it happen? Well it seems to on Quake servers!

As far as team games go there needs to be an independant party that determines which skins are OK and which are not...competitive pressure to have people on your servers will keep admins busy downloading!

A Nali city like map could packakge weekly additions to help keep players up to date...

I believe it can/should be done... the question remains How do I get to Epic!


P.S. Thanks for the support Fear & Nep
Winston,... 2+2=5!
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Old 1st Sep 2000, 05:54 PM   #7
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Thumbs up

I agree...

Why not make a petition, seems to be all the rage now
Domo Arigato, Mr Roboto
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