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Old 8th Jun 2012, 12:44 PM   #81
elmuerte
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Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
Depending on how the engine is built, compiling C++ is lightning fast.
C++ is seriously slow in compiling comparing to other languages. And the problem lies within its design. There's a reason why distributed compilers are so common for C++ (and C) but quite uncommon for other languages.

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Unlike Java/UScript, you don't have to pass it to any kind of byte code translator at compile time, or run time.
First of all UnrealScript really had a barebones compiler that didn't even support incremental compiling. That made it slow. Java, most production level compilers are very fast.

As for bytecode to machine code translation. That's also done by C++ compilers (but only at compiletime). For Java is usually done at runtime (by a JIT), but it can also be done at compiletime, but of course makes your code less portable. Anyway, it's a non argument.

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It can be natively compiled and loaded/run on the fly.
That's the most awesome part. Bytecode runtimes provide a VM that makes it easier to replace code. As long as the data structure hasn't changed it's dead simple to replace the code.
But with machine code, there usually is no clear separation of code and data in memory. To Epic managed to create a subsystem that makes this process possible for their engine. Although you probably have to conform completely to their framework for this functionality to work (using external code could probably break the hot replacing).
But you are probably only going to use that hot replacing feature for tweaking the code and not major changes.

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I would love to see this on Linux for once
It's already available, for example: Ksplice
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 02:50 PM   #82
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UE3: excessive bloom
UE4: excessive particles and lens flares
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 03:15 PM   #83
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And C++ only is still a bad choice on itself imo.
It makes sense, as that's what the native code is written in. Though personally I'd rather see it use D, because D is as close to UnrealScript as it gets from the 'real' programming languages. Complete with garbage collection, dynamic arrays, but compiles natively, without a VM like Java. The syntax is also rather similar to UnrealScript (more C than Java, and no cryptic ">>" and "::" symbols). Plus it has support for templates and other high level tools.

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I would love to see this on Linux for once
This.

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UE3: excessive bloom
UE4: excessive particles and lens flares
Hey, I wouldn't mind excessive particles. True about lens flares, though, it's silly if viewed from a first person perspective.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 04:26 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by elmuerte View Post
C++ is seriously slow in compiling comparing to other languages. And the problem lies within its design. There's a reason why distributed compilers are so common for C++ (and C) but quite uncommon for other languages.
Compared to what, Java? Most Java isn't compiled, but I suppose you could mean other JIT languages that operate faster than C/C++ compilers.
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As for bytecode to machine code translation. That's also done by C++ compilers (but only at compiletime). For Java is usually done at runtime (by a JIT), but it can also be done at compiletime, but of course makes your code less portable. Anyway, it's a non argument.
I mostly just meant it was a compile time resolution. Java and UScript generally build into something that is later translated into something the computer can actually use.
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But you are probably only going to use that hot replacing feature for tweaking the code and not major changes.
While the engine is running, I'm sure. It's probably not a lot more than interesting or cool, but I am happy with the move... for now.
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It's already available, for example: Ksplice
Ewwwwww! Oracle...

Meanwhile, I was actually referencing UE4
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 04:57 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
Compared to what, Java? Most Java isn't compiled, but I suppose you could mean other JIT languages that operate faster than C/C++ compilers.
Given C++ language design it takes quite some effort just to be able to process the source code to the process the AST could be translated to machine code.
But you don't have to take my word on it: http://www.drdobbs.com/blogs/cpp/228701711

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I mostly just meant it was a compile time resolution. Java and UScript generally build into something that is later translated into something the computer can actually use.
Usually yes. But, for example gcj compiles java to machine code. Still immature, but LLVM also has a frontend for Java/java bytecode, and thereby the ability to compile to machine code.

Anyway, my point being. A lot of compilers first compile the code to an intermediate byte code, from there on they could compile it to machine code or store to execute at runtime. LLVM is a nice example of this, it started out as a VM for it's bytecode. But eventually they continued on to compile the bytecode further to machine code.

ps, UnrealScript is never compiled to machine code, has always been interpreted.

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Ewwwwww! Oracle...
Well.. oracle bought them. There are a few other smaller projects that aim to have similar functionality.
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 06:22 PM   #86
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Looks much more impressive in motion than the stills.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/0...rect-lighting/

(didn't check to see if its already been posted, apologies if it has)
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Old 8th Jun 2012, 06:25 PM   #87
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Don't worry, it wasn't posted yet. Especially not here anyway.

Here's another one.
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Old 9th Jun 2012, 03:13 AM   #88
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Actually both videos were already posted in this thread.
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Old 9th Jun 2012, 05:54 AM   #89
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Epic managed to create a subsystem that makes this process possible for their engine.
I'm pretty sure this isn't what they've done, it's instead the same process as 'edit and continue' in Visual Studio. They still recompile the code (gameplay DLL), but it's not recompiled 'from scratch'. When the new DLL is recompiled, they switch the new one with the old one. This is why there is a delay between pressing the 'compile' button in the editor and seeing the changes, and why there is a brief flicker when the DLL does make the switch.
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Old 12th Jul 2012, 01:38 PM   #90
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somewhat related : Fortnight to be EPIC's PC exclusive game, running on UE4
I want to be happy and excited about it. common Epic, don't disappoint !
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Old 12th Jul 2012, 01:59 PM   #91
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woot!
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Old 12th Jul 2012, 11:35 PM   #92
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Inb4 Epic announces Fortnite will be free to play.
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Old 13th Jul 2012, 09:13 AM   #93
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Exclusively to PC.
Yeah, now that PC is the best solution for UE4.
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Old 13th Jul 2012, 11:59 AM   #94
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Yeah, now that PC is the best solution for UE4.
Were you expecting something else?
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Old 13th Jul 2012, 03:05 PM   #95
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PC is the only available platform that can run it...
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