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Old 11th Feb 2012, 02:51 PM   #21
Crotale
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Ah, the old, "Conservatives are dumb," argument.

Have you considered the fact that millions of Americans who claim they are liberal or otherwise vote Democrat do so out of their own blessed ignorance and lack of intelligence or education? "Give me your vote and I will be the great Democrat who will provide you with free food, clothing, shelter and health care even if you choose not to be a productive member of society."

Getting back to the OP's synopsis, most of the persons being referred to are likely to be white. Turning the tables a bit, I want to focus on minorities. Both African-Americans and Latinos are by and large more predisposed to being less educated than their white counterparts due to two critical conditions: parental education levels and socio-economic status. Blacks, particularly, have voted by a consistent minimum of 85% Democrat since 1965, that year seeing the introduction of Johnson's Great Society. The previous decades saw much lower percentages supporting the Democratic Party, even though the liberals had moved to the Democratic Party years before Johnson came into office. It is noteworthy to say that many prominent black leaders have acknowledged the reason for this support is two-fold: one being gratitude and the other out of self-preservation all tied to that welfare coming out of Johnson's program.

I could go on to write about the lack of family support for many black youths in this country, most of whom do not even live with either of their biological parents. And yet, most of these youths grow up to vote Democrat, but not because they are smarter than some white dude in a pickup truck. He or she does so because they are conditioned to vote that way.

So, Jacks, you got any more bull**** you want to pull out of your ass? So, Jacks, do you have any other theories you would like to share?

Last edited by Crotale; 11th Feb 2012 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 11th Feb 2012, 03:16 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Crotale View Post
So, Jacks, you got any more bull**** you want to pull out of your ass? So, Jacks, do you have any other theories you would like to share?
theory?
bull****?
out of my ass?

it's a study man. I didn't make it up.
it's a research study.
a research study conducted under adherence to the scientific process.

if the results piss you off, don't take your anger out on me.
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Old 11th Feb 2012, 03:34 PM   #23
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Since I cannot access the study, I have no idea what is in it. Do you have an alternate link?

I'll say this much without having read the study: results, er, findings can be manipulated.

To top that off, the second link you provided read more like an extremely biased rant from a progressive who is pissed that his buddies aren't as angry as he is about the fact that conservatives exist at all. You would have had a better argument by leaving out the tripe.
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Old 11th Feb 2012, 04:26 PM   #24
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Just for you, Jacks.

http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=5118
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Old 11th Feb 2012, 04:39 PM   #25
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I thought evil was in bed with high intellect. I mean hell it's a known fact that eugenics was concocted by progressives to eradicate minorities.
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Old 11th Feb 2012, 11:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotale View Post
Since I cannot access the study, I have no idea what is in it. Do you have an alternate link?
do you know how to use a search engine?

here: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187
Quote:
I'll say this much without having read the study: results, er, findings can be manipulated.
yes, statistics can be used to show virtually anything.
correlation does not equal causation.
I'm well aware.
Quote:
the second link you provided read more like an extremely biased rant
that's because it is.
I never said that the second link was a study.

it's just commentary.
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Originally Posted by Crotale View Post
that's nice but it doesn't really change anything about the study itself. Briggs article is more like a reply to people and/or the media who have spun the research to benefit their position. and I'll admit that I played into it. but that's on purpose. the title of this thread was an obvious attempt to stir the pot and get some attention for the topic.

Briggs is right in that the research itself doesn't prove anything.
it doesn't mean that republicans are racist homophobes. it doesn't mean that "stupid" people are automatically republican. and rightly so, because no one ever actually said that.

Briggs is merely pointing out to the Layman the importance of sample size and longitudinal data versus cross-sectional. he's just making sure that idiots (regardless of their political affiliation) understand that the study doesn't prove anything. and that in fact, if you replaced certain words (conservative/liberal, racism/sexism, life/abortion) you could essentially turn the entire conclusion upside down.
he's also making the point that the study was done by sociologists. and social science is inherently subjective. the data they chose to work with concerned individual attitudes and opinions stratified with current social values and trends. these things are not concrete, they are not laws of nature for instance.

unfortunately for you, Briggs article doesn't undermine the research itself.
it definitely undermines any jackass who wanted to make headlines like "the GOP is for retards - proof inside!"

but you've linked this to me as thought it's your counterpunch when I didn't really throw any punches to start with. we're not arguing here.
I found the story, found the study, found the commentary by Monbiot, saw that no one had posted any of it yet, and thought it would at least make for entertaining discussion.

neither myself nor the study actually says anything about conservatives being unintelligent or racist or what have you.
it only says that low IQ can predict a greater likelihood of adopting conservative attitudes. that's it.

and from my personal experience that sounds about right... on average
it doesn't necessarily mean anything about the republican party in the US or republican voters.
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it's a known fact that eugenics was concocted by progressives to eradicate minorities.
what.

you're a ****ing moron on a grand scale.
or a troll.
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 01:45 AM   #27
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Your elections sound really thrilling. You can choose between a clown and one of these other clowns.
Fixed.

Also, eugenics is a load of crap.
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 09:06 AM   #28
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Sorry. This thread has gone on far too long without these.
BTW it is thread worthy, she is Megan McCain.

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Old 12th Feb 2012, 10:47 AM   #29
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Why is that image mirrored?
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 11:12 AM   #30
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That image is mirrored?
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 11:38 AM   #31
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Why is that image mirrored?
Women do that (along with the arbitrary greyscale to make their skin tones look more uniform...). I have not yet worked out why.
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 11:49 AM   #32
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that's nice but it doesn't really change anything about the study itself. Briggs article is more like a reply to people and/or the media who have spun the research to benefit their position. and I'll admit that I played into it. but that's on purpose. the title of this thread was an obvious attempt to stir the pot and get some attention for the topic.
Stir the pot? Get attention for the topic? You definitely went for stirring the pot, but the attention you opted for sure seemed hellbent on attacking conservatives by labeling those who think conservatively as morons (or, "Be Smart, don't vote Republican" as your title says).


Quote:
Briggs is right in that the research itself doesn't prove anything.
it doesn't mean that republicans are racist homophobes. it doesn't mean that "stupid" people are automatically republican. and rightly so, because no one ever actually said that.
You said so in the thread title. Sorry, bro, but if you are going to use a certain incitable verbiage to call attention or stir the pot, as it were, be prepared to get pinged on your use of it.

Quote:
Briggs is merely pointing out to the Layman the importance of sample size and longitudinal data versus cross-sectional. he's just making sure that idiots (regardless of their political affiliation) understand that the study doesn't prove anything. and that in fact, if you replaced certain words (conservative/liberal, racism/sexism, life/abortion) you could essentially turn the entire conclusion upside down.
he's also making the point that the study was done by sociologists. and social science is inherently subjective. the data they chose to work with concerned individual attitudes and opinions stratified with current social values and trends. these things are not concrete, they are not laws of nature for instance.
And yet, you tout this in the OP as some instrument to strike upon everyone so that we all have a magical epiphany that makes us believe that conservationism is bred from idiocy. Read that outloud three times fast.

Quote:
unfortunately for you, Briggs article doesn't undermine the research itself.
it definitely undermines any jackass who wanted to make headlines like "the GOP is for retards - proof inside!"
Which is essentially what YOU did in the OP. Have you read the ****ing thread title? You provided no actual argument or discussion. I mean, seriously, you could have posted "Chicks have tits. Discuss." and provided some image links and you would have provided the same amount of discussion or thought behind your post. The only difference was that you included an opinion piece that obviously agrees with your position in some manner, thus making your entire "effort" a more biased claim and less about initiating actual discussion. The methods you used in the OP were meant to incite, not to be insightful.

Quote:
but you've linked this to me as thought it's your counterpunch when I didn't really throw any punches to start with. we're not arguing here.
I found the story, found the study, found the commentary by Monbiot, saw that no one had posted any of it yet, and thought it would at least make for entertaining discussion.
Not so much a counter-punch as much as a sanity check, since you only provided information from one side of what you claim to have wanted was a discussion. As you admitted, parts of the study and findings were not scientific and some results were merely opinion based. Doesn't sound like kicking off discussion so much as starting **** to see where it goes and who decides to play.

Admit it, you would never have said as much as you did in THIS post if someone had not called you on it.

Quote:
neither myself nor the study actually says anything about conservatives being unintelligent or racist or what have you.
it only says that low IQ can predict a greater likelihood of adopting conservative attitudes. that's it.
It claims a greater likelihood of adopting conservative attitudes, but in reality, it simply means that a person might be more predisposed to adopting attitudes that lead to bias, fear or hate. These are not conservative only attitudes or issues. The researchers' bias and your own bias are being injected into the argument, thus recanting any credibility in your argument.

Quote:
and from my personal experience that sounds about right... on average
it doesn't necessarily mean anything about the republican party in the US or republican voters.
And my own personal experience has shown that undereducated and unsophisticated persons may tend to be racist, homophobic, fearful of others and filled with hate. And guess what, a generous portion of those, possibly the majority, are liberal supporters of the Democratic Party. Unlike you, however, I don't keep count. Personal experience isn't creditable in the matter of scientific research, is it?
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 12:14 PM   #33
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tl;dr
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 12:37 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ambershee View Post
Women do that (along with the arbitrary greyscale to make their skin tones look more uniform...). I have not yet worked out why.
cos dumb ...
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 01:56 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
Fixed.

Also, eugenics is a load of crap.
Do you believe that, in your lifetime, there will ever be someone capable of being president? And not worthy of a clown stature.......
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 05:22 PM   #36
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Do you believe that, in your lifetime, there will ever be someone capable of being president? And not worthy of a clown stature.......
No, because you need too much money to become President to actually be normal.
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 06:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Crotale View Post
you tout this in the OP as some instrument to strike upon everyone so that we all have a magical epiphany that makes us believe that conservationism is bred from idiocy.
well yeah sort of.
but not really lol...

I didn't explicitly say anything like that.
sure there was an agenda, it's obvious that I'm not much of a conservative. but I didn't actually draw any conclusions myself.
as noted by your next angry paragraph, you're getting way too hung up on the title of this thread. yes I know it's slanted, which was also just an obvious attempt to get people talking (as I later admitted once your brilliant detective skills figured it out ).

for someone who is supposedly so upset at my lack of personal contribution to the thread ("You provided no actual argument or discussion" blah blah blah) you sure are following well in my example.
you've spent 3 whole posts attacking me based on assumptions you made. the purpose of this thread was never about writing a masterpiece thesis containing all of my personal thoughts and feelings on the matter. it was just talk and watch people talk about a funny/interesting/inflammatory piece of news.

you're the one who's looking for content that doesn't exist.
calm down.
Quote:
Not so much a counter-punch as much as a sanity check, since you only provided information from one side of what you claim to have wanted was a discussion.
because that's how discussions work
hello??

a person doesn't have a discussion by talking to themselves.
again: this is not my personal thesis or something. I was never obligated to provide both sides of the potential argument. one side is enough to get the discussion rolling.
Quote:
Admit it, you would never have said as much as you did in THIS post if someone had not called you on it.
oh dear, Sherlock Holmes and his uncanny deductive abilities have struck again...

I don't have a crystal ball man. how could I have known that you would get your panties so twisted over your endless assumptions about my presumed intent and the title of the thread? I admit it, I didn't think I would have to say as much as I have sine you decided to make such a big deal out of it. congrats on turning this into a multi quote mess that no one wants to read.

Quote:
The researchers' bias and your own bias are being injected into the argument, thus recanting any credibility in your argument.
once again: I never made an argument.

your hasty assumptions have blinded your ability to see any of the fun this thread could have had. the study was done by Canadians for ****s sake. that's gold.
Quote:
Unlike you, however, I don't keep count. Personal experience isn't creditable in the matter of scientific research, is it?
what the **** is wrong with you?

I never said I'm keeping count of anything.
I never said that my personal experience was supposed to be taken as "creditable scientific research."

my god..
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No, because you need too much money to become President to actually be normal.
quoted for truth.
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 06:36 PM   #38
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Oh, I get, it, those darned Kanucks got it all wrong again. Goshdangit, Jacks, you are a hoot.
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 06:44 PM   #39
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why couldn't you have just said that to begin with?
everyone else had a nice one-liner...

I appreciate your attempt though, belated as it may be.
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Old 12th Feb 2012, 08:37 PM   #40
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If he was sitting in front of you you could have scrutinized the muscles in his butt to see if he has mommy issues.

Eugenics.
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