A Modest Proposal - Dear American liberals

[Zur]

Ok, well let's do a 1 million urine tests for every patient. Doctors orders ! And make sure you pay the bill on the way out

[kiff]

Originally Posted by Azura

Ok, well let's do a 1 million urine tests for every patient. Doctors orders ! And make sure you pay the bill on the way out

piss poor, i mean rich, argument?

[theabyss]

Originally Posted by kiff

...doing a million random tests because they might stumble upon something?

Look, that is not how it is usually done. You're exaggerating it here, and you know it. Just by talking about symptoms a good doctor should have at least a clue what he has to deal with. Under certain circumstances one has to do tests, yes, but not always. Not everyone is in a serious condition.

I had injured my finger at work really bad two years ago. The boss said I would be "fine" - but it hurt unusual bad, so I went to the hospital. They did an x-ray and found that I had broken the finger and needed a metal support. So was this test useless? Should I have listened to my boss, because "I would have been alright"? Hell no. There is nothing more valuable than your health.

[kiff]

Originally Posted by theabyss

Look, that is not how it is usually done. You're exaggerating it here, and you know it.

yes, I was exaggerating, but just making a point. so, what exactly was your point then? that they should run just a few extra tests, for the hell of it, when you see your doctor? or, like I even said, go to your doc for regular checkups and get the normally scheduled tests?

I had injured my finger at work really bad two years ago. The boss said I would be "fine" - but it hurt unusual bad, so I went to the hospital.

well, you knew something was wrong and your boss didn't. no brainer...

[Firefly]

Here, if you injure yourself at work, they can't get you to hospital fast enough.

Litigation paranoia

Health and safety gone mad in England atm

[Zur]

Originally Posted by theabyss

Just by talking about symptoms a good doctor should have at least a clue what he has to deal with. Under certain circumstances one has to do tests, yes, but not always. Not everyone is in a serious condition.

If that doctor was somehow convinced that more tests would do great good for a hospital and himself, would he ask for more tests to be done ?

The boss said I would be "fine"

Your boss isn't a doctor.

Originally Posted by Firefly

Here, if you injure yourself at work, they can't get you to hospital fast enough.

Here it seems that they prefer carry on as nothing happened. That's how I ended up with an injury to the back. "You're probably too weak", someone at work said. Nice. I guess I wasn't built to withstand a 20 kilo box falling on my chest like 95% people out there. So, if you can sue, sue

[Firefly]

We had to do a 4 hour "lifting a box safely" course recently.

4 hours on how to lift a box!!

then we had to sign a piece of paper to say we had listened (anti-litigation of course).

best bit is this though, there was a 15 question test at the end including a certificate awarded for passing "Advanced Manual Handling".

You couldn't make it up.

btw why do some people refer to Obama as a lizard?

[funkblast]

The people of our nation don't see no obligation
To fix the situation of the elder generation
They're stuffing up the nursing homes to overflowing
Yeah, but the problem keeps growing
People getting jacked for their Social Security checks
I detect that they don't get no respect
So what you gonna do, a dilemma for the whole crew
Open up your ears; I got an answer for you (what's that)
Open up your ears; I got an answer for you (what you say?)
Open up your ears; I got an answer for you

We gotta eat all the old people
Show em that you love em
We gotta eat all the old people
Shove em in the oven
We gotta eat all the old people
Stick em in the freezer
We gotta eat all the old people
We're gonna garnish up a geezer

We're gonna hack em, whack, de-bone and stack em
Two by two on the bar-b-q rack em
We're talking Steve McQueen with the Soylent Green
We grinding up the grannies in the granny-grind machine
The venerable edibles, the ancient incredible
Burger, one bite and you know it's not regrettable
The aged, the antiquated, dilapidated
Gonna get processed and then marinated
And now we go around, we're cleaning up the town
We frying up the Golden Girls to a golden brown

We gotta eat all the old people
Show em that you love em
We gotta eat all the old people
Shove em in the oven
We gotta eat all the old people
Eat em skin and all
We gotta eat all the old people
We're gonna marinate with Geritol

We're talking O-L-D, P-E-O-P-L-E
It's always the first that's the worst
Until they become a tasty treat
We're talking E-A-T, all the O-L-D
We're talking E-A-T, all the O-L-D

Here we go
We gotta eat all the old people (c'mon)
We gotta eat all the old people (c'mon)
We gotta eat all the old people (c'mon)
We gotta eat all the old people (here we go)
We gotta eat all the old people (c'mon)
We gotta eat all the old people (c'mon)
We gotta eat all the old people (uh-huh)
We gotta eat all the old people (boyeeeeeee)

Now I think you know exactly how I feel
A sandwich is a sandwich but your grandpa is a meal

[hal]

Originally Posted by Firefly

isn't the constituion a bit out of date?
it may have been relevent to sociaty 200 years ago but now?

Also things can often seem clearer from the outside; a more objective view point.

Actually, you should read it. Start right here: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...stitution.html and have a look at the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights. They aren't terribly long.

The entire thing is carefully constructed to keep unnecessary power out of the hands of a central authority (the federal government). The States are set up as self-governing units. The Fed ties them together and its powers largely center around maintaining fair trade between them and providing a common defense. Thus, there is competition and camaraderie between each State and each is directly accountable to its people.

It's very interesting to read the events of the time and the writings of the people who established the country as they were largely concerned by tyranny and felt that government was but a necessary evil that needed to be kept in check.

If a State were to decide to fund a public healthcare option, with the authority of the people, that would be entirely constitutional.

[theabyss]

Originally Posted by Azura

If that doctor was somehow convinced that more tests would do great good for a hospital and himself, would he ask for more tests to be done ?

Is this how hospitals make money nowadays? I don't believe it.

Your boss isn't a doctor.

I added this because he
* didn't want to acknowledge that I was in severe pain
* was cheap and didn't want to deal with workman's comp.
* failed to keep the machine I was working on in good condition (no, not my responsibility) - that's why it happened.

[Plumb_Drumb]

I have a 3500 dollar deductible on my insurance. LOL.
________
Volcano vaporizer solid vs easy valve

[kiff]

Originally Posted by Plumb_Drumb

I have a 3500 dollar deductible on my insurance. LOL.

and unless you have some medical issue, you probably have a low monthly rate, right?

[Plumb_Drumb]

well, if you want to call it low then maybe you should pay it, but yeah, unless I'm dying of cancer or have major surgery, I'm forking the bill.
________
Azusena cam

[kiff]

Originally Posted by Plumb_Drumb

well, if you want to call it low then maybe you should pay it, but yeah, unless I'm dying of cancer or have major surgery, I'm forking the bill.

already paying for a family of four, thanks
but yea, basically you have catastrophic coverage. let me guess, $120/month like TWD?

[Plumb_Drumb]

I don't know that it would cover a catastrophy, it would cover a broken back maybe.
________
Live sex webshows

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by hal

Actually, you should read it. Start right here: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...stitution.html and have a look at the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights. They aren't terribly long.

The entire thing is carefully constructed to keep unnecessary power out of the hands of a central authority (the federal government). The States are set up as self-governing units. The Fed ties them together and its powers largely center around maintaining fair trade between them and providing a common defense. Thus, there is competition and camaraderie between each State and each is directly accountable to its people.

It's very interesting to read the events of the time and the writings of the people who established the country as they were largely concerned by tyranny and felt that government was but a necessary evil that needed to be kept in check.

Cheers for the link. That's fascinating.

Originally Posted by hal

If a State were to decide to fund a public healthcare option, with the authority of the people, that would be entirely constitutional.

Why not hold a referendum? That would be giving the people the authority.

[hal]

Some states have referendums, but it's important to note that the United States as a whole is not a pure Democracy. The founders were also fearful of "mob rule", so they designed a federal system divided into three parts which are all supposed to be independant of and equal to the others. Each is run by officials that are either elected by the people or appointed by someone elected by the people.

[Firefly]

No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.

This seems weird to me. The senator can't represent the state (and therefore the people) he/she came from?

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

They still refereed to them as Indians even though, by then, it must have been obvious it wasn't India.

[Firefly]

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States,

Red-necks existed back then as well

[Firefly]

Section 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Maybe a bit vague but could this be construed as making a national health service constitutional?