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Old 14th May 2009, 03:04 PM   #1
Snakeye
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Talking INF Player Bulk Adaption Mutator

Okay, since the server was empty until now I decided to do some testing and upload the mutator to influence player bulk.

Note that the calulations involved to determine player stamina and speed are not completely trivial - so read the readme file. If the readme file doesn't help (I'm not sure I explained it good enough) just post here and I'll try again .

Have fun and don't blame me if your Inf crashes or your HDD is erased - use is at own risk!

PS: READ THE README! YES YOU!

Snakeye
Attached Files
File Type: zip INF_PlayerBulkAdaption_BetaRelease_010.zip (4.6 KB, 19 views)
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.30

'the elders tell of a young ball much like you. he bounced three meters in the air, then he bounced one point eight meters in the air, then he bounced four meters in the air. do I make myself clear?!'

'anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing'
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Old 14th May 2009, 04:39 PM   #2
GalZohar
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Nice, will try playing with it.

Note that according to the readme, CurrentBulk is 75-bulk_in_loadout, but you also have 75-CurrentBulk in the formula, so basically 75-CurrentBulk = bulk_in_loadout and thus the formula can be written in a much simpler form:

FMax(1.0,((Bulk - default.StandardBulk)/default.BulkDivisor));

Does custombulk allow for enough bulk changes to change the bulk of all items in INF, though? IIRC it was limited to changing a certain amount of items at a maximum...

I attached some tables+graphs that would help calculate the speed you would have with various settings.

Something I don't understand is CustomBulkSpeedDivisor, as you only define it in the readme and then never refer to it in any formula or explanation.

Something to note is that with that formula it is impossible to get reasonable bulk scaling. To get bulk to reasonable scaling the formula HAS to be changed to:
FMax(1.0,(1 + (Bulk - default.StandardBulk)/default.BulkDivisor));
The "1" represents the player's self-weight. Combining that formula change with StandardBulk=0 can actually allow bulk to scale properly by playing with the BulkDivisor. In that case the FMAX is not actually needed because the result is always bigger than 1. Then again if StandardBulk is set to -BulkDivisor the same effect is attained, hoping that StandardBulk can accept negatives.

Makeing a 0.25KG = 1 bulk and that a person weighting 2X will move at 1/2 speed gives unreasonable results, which actually makes sense considering that if you'd carry gear equal to your own weight you'd not just have a harder time moving forward but also have a harder time lifting your feet off the floor... I'll try playing some games with StandardBulk=-200 and BulkDivisor=200 and see how it feels. Then if custombulk can work to change bulk values for all items the way I want it to, then I'll scale both those values and the actual bulk values up so I can fine-tune the bulk values of low-bulk items.
Attached Files
File Type: zip speedVSbulk.zip (28.7 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by GalZohar; 14th May 2009 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 14th May 2009, 05:33 PM   #3
GalZohar
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Anyway, this is not working as expected:

Setting standardbulk=0 and bulkdivisor=9999 will give full speed with 0 bulk, but still slow you down significantly with heavier loadouts, even though bulk should have no effect with these settings.

standardbulk=-200 and bulkdivisor=200 would result in EXTREMELY slow speed with ANY bulk value.


Also new weapons (Uzi, M4...) seem to crash me sometimes in both the loadout screen in the menu, as well as when launching the game. This may or may not be related to this mod though. Turning the mod off or even removing it from the system folder doesn't fix it, but I hadn't seen that problem before I installed this. Playing around with various things eventually fixes it but I couldn't find anything consistent. Is there a known issue with the weapon pack?

Last edited by GalZohar; 14th May 2009 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 15th May 2009, 01:38 AM   #4
Snakeye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalZohar View Post
Note that according to the readme, CurrentBulk is 75-bulk_in_loadout, but you also have 75-CurrentBulk in the formula, so basically 75-CurrentBulk = bulk_in_loadout and thus the formula can be written in a much simpler form:

FMax(1.0,((Bulk - default.StandardBulk)/default.BulkDivisor));
Oh, right, well, I guess I just wanted to use the formula as it is in the code .

As for BulkSpeedDivisor, I didn't mention it again since the formula used is the same as for BulkDivisor, only that it affects speed. Basically you have the two formulas:
1.: FMax(1.0,((default.CurrentBulk - default.StandardBulk - CurrentBulk)/default.BulkDivisor));
2.: FMax(1.0,((default.CurrentBulk - default.StandardBulk - CurrentBulk)/default.BulkSpeedDivisor));
The result of the first one is used to divide your stamina, the result of the second is used to divide your speed. Note that stamina also affects speed, so at high bulk values (>66 IIRC) speed is decreased stronger.

Also note that StandardBulk is used in BOTH formulas, so changing it for one alone may or may not have ill effects. In your example you set the StandardBulk to -200, which leads to the speed being divided by:
[standard BulkSpeedDivisor and an empty loadout are assumed]
(75-(-200)-75)/36=5.55
This means you will move at 1/5.55th of your standard speed! Yeah that's slow.

I took the liberty of updating your xls (yeah, I did use the full formula..) and attaching it here. The graph in there is consistent with my experimental results in Inf.

As for crashes, while I can never exclude the possibility for ill effects, I did run it with my standard test mutator load and the only side effect I ever got, was that setting the BulkDivisor to zero would eliminate all ammo - which is why this is disallowed in the release - and considering the fact it "only" affects the sMaleBase and sMale1Bot defaultproperties I'd rate the crash probablity rather low - although my tests only uncluded reasonable number (or what I though was reasonable). BTW crashes in the loadout menu can positively NOT be related to this, since it's not active until you enter a game.

I hope I could clear things up a bit, if you need more explanation just ask - though I'll not be available a lot until sunday, I'll try to check this regularly.
Attached Files
File Type: zip speed vs bulk.zip (7.0 KB, 8 views)
__________________
.30

'the elders tell of a young ball much like you. he bounced three meters in the air, then he bounced one point eight meters in the air, then he bounced four meters in the air. do I make myself clear?!'

'anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing'

Last edited by Snakeye; 15th May 2009 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 15th May 2009, 10:04 AM   #5
GalZohar
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Alright, I get it now. It seems the most realistic (for current bulk values) would be:

default.StandardBulk: -100
default.BulkDivisor: 100
default.BulkSpeedDivisor: 100

Based on 0.25KG = 1 bulk. Of course there are many items that need their bulk value adjusted, mostly to fit the 0.25KG = 1 bulk but also in some cases to give items extra bulk for their size. I tested it with lighter-than-RL loadouts, RL-like loadouts and heavier-than-RL loadouts, and it seemed quite reasonable with those values (aside from certain items having wrong bulk, in my test m203 nades being too heavy made it feel wrong).

Those settings feel the most "right" for me based on how I know people carrying certain amounts of gear should be able to move. This also fits if you agree that a person carrying himself on his back should move at 1/4 speed.


Now to play with custombulk to fix the other issues

Last edited by GalZohar; 15th May 2009 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 15th May 2009, 12:12 PM   #6
GalZohar
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Any way to put these desired bulk values (in the attachement) into custombulk in a quick way?
I made it so that 1 KG = 1 bulk and added additional bulk for excessive size. That is, small weapons got a little extra, big weapons got more extra and huge weapons got a lot of extra. The idea is that it's easier to run with 50kg that takes no extra space than with 50kg that also take a lot of space and bother you while you run.


Regarding divisor number tweaking, I tried setting bulkdivisor to 99999 so stamina is never affected and only speed is, which already results in shorter sprinting distances as stamina is drained over time rather than over distance. This actually feels better than losing both speed and stamina, and the only problem is jump height, but it's not like jump height works realistically with bulk in unmodded INF either, and it can't be fixed unless we directly change how jump height is calculated.
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File Type: zip Inf-Info_gal-modded.zip (65.7 KB, 2 views)
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Old 15th May 2009, 01:59 PM   #7
GalZohar
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Updated with weights of FULL 9mm mags for MP5 rather than empty.
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File Type: zip Inf-Info_gal-modded.zip (65.7 KB, 11 views)
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