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Old 8th Jan 2009, 09:54 PM   #261
Grobut
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Originally Posted by thinsoldier View Post
What exactly are these bugs people keep talking about. I haven't experienced any.

I think there are a lot of features missing compared to previous UTs and I dislike many aspects of the art direction and audio compared to previous UTs but I can't think of any bugs I've encountered.
There's still crash bugs with the game on certain hardware, notably with X-FI sound cards that has onboard RAM when Hardware sound is enabled, but there's other crashes too, for me, i have to remove 2 Gb of RAM from my Motherboard to play UT3, or it will crash (i have no clue why, and nobody has been able to give me a good reason why this would be happening, or why removing RAM from my system solves it, all my other games and apps have no problems).

Then there's the infamous "Demo-Guy" bug, where all playermodels will turn into the same model if UT3 doesen't feel its got enough RAM, Epic says this is a feature to preserve framerates, players definately do not like it though, and would like it removed.

There's the "flying manta" bug also, where a certain combination of moves will make the Manta rocket into the air.

There's the "Duplicate login error" bug.

Eh.. and so on, there are still bugs, less than stellar hardware support, and instabillities on some systems aswell, all things that ought to be fixed.
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Old 8th Jan 2009, 10:35 PM   #262
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Thanks for clarifying the demoguy bug. I've been wondering about that since I started hanging around here again. Sounds like the culmination of a long known issue with the engine, as I recall there was a note in the original UT readme regarding hitching in online games when new players join.

The RAM thing is weird.

I tried to start a campaign game very recently and the game froze up on the opening cinematic or something. I have a Audigy 2 and had hardware accel turned on for audio. I'll have to try it with acceleration disabled.
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Old 8th Jan 2009, 10:46 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Grobut View Post
Then there's the infamous "Demo-Guy" bug, where all playermodels will turn into the same model if UT3 doesen't feel its got enough RAM, Epic says this is a feature to preserve framerates, players definately do not like it though, and would like it removed.
You're partly wrong and missing some info here.

Some of the DemoGuy transformations are actually intended regardless of the game ok'ing your ram or not. Actually that doesn't have anything to do with DemoGuy showing up.

The first intended use was if you're switching teams, the game never loaded the opposing team skin for your character, so it will turn immediately to DemoGuy. Unfortunately this has a side effect that carries over to the next map if you change gametypes so everyone will appears as DemoGuy because the game never loaded the player models. :/

The second intended use was, as you said, to preserve frames, but it's not because of ram, it's because of hitching caused by your hard drive loading the models. From what I know, UT3 doesn't load player models at the beginning of the maps and that means it never entered the ram in the first place, so whoever joins afterwards gets to be DemoGuy. Yay.

I can sort of see where they thought it may have been a good idea, but it's turned part of the game into a total joke, made having any character besides DemoGuy useless, and made the customization system obsolete. Why even bother having any models besides DemoGuy if that's all I'm going to be or see? :c
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Old 8th Jan 2009, 11:19 PM   #264
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Really it depends on how much each respective game makes, right?

No matter what we think, no developer or publisher is ever REALLY going to rank their games' success based on the number of people that play it online (as long as it's not a subscription based online game). Really they only care how many units it sells at retail.
Agreed, to a point. But a forward thinking developer is going to care not only about the current iteration in the series but the next as well. I can't even begin to tell you how many people bought UT3 with little or no reservation, based solely on their positive sentiment toward UT2004, and now haven't touched the thing for many months. Of everyone I know who played UT2004, not 10%, and that's figuring generously, ever play UT3 anymore—and nearly all of them own the game.

Epic employees both current and frmer may brag and bounce about sales figures for UT3 all they want (invalid, deceptive comparisons to past single-platform UT titles notwithstanding). The fact is that their credibility with anything they say henceforth about UT is utterly spent. People who've been paying attention over the last few years and have their memories still intact have endured too many lies, false promises, and failures by Epic to make good on their own hype. In any case, the vast majority sure as hell aren't going to repeat the cycle by lapping up UT4 on faith because UT3 was such a smashing success.

Nothing less than an absolutely tremendous production (we can only hope) and a damn-the-budget marketing blitz can reverse course for UT. Anything less, and the piper will be paid, sales figures and all, for their UT3 screwups—and drastically so if they keep on disavowing reality and projecting the same vanity and smug, piss-off attitude they have been all throughout, instead of every one of them honestly, humbly, taking their job seriously.

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I tend to agree with you to a certain extent, but I also think Epic was under pressure to get UT3 out.
Well ... yes, doubtless—I mean, we had gameplay trailers of one form or another being released some 18-24 months prior to the release, at the time accompanied by projections of a 2006 release, for godsakes. If executed properly it's hard to imagine them having to spend all that extra time just to come up with ( UT2004 + UE3 + orb – {UI, BR, DOM, ...} ). Not even counting the extra 6-8 months of postrelease spent patching it into halfway salable condition.

But then again, from what I hear, I'm 99-100% idiot.
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Old 8th Jan 2009, 11:51 PM   #265
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You're partly wrong and missing some info here.

...
You're most likely correct, its been a good while since i read about what was causing Demoguy
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 12:34 AM   #266
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You're most likely correct, its been a good while since i read about what was causing Demoguy
DemoGuy isn't just a bug, it's a way of life.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 12:49 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by JohnDoe641 View Post
You're partly wrong and missing some info here.

Some of the DemoGuy transformations are actually intended regardless of the game ok'ing your ram or not. Actually that doesn't have anything to do with DemoGuy showing up.

The first intended use was if you're switching teams, the game never loaded the opposing team skin for your character, so it will turn immediately to DemoGuy. Unfortunately this has a side effect that carries over to the next map if you change gametypes so everyone will appears as DemoGuy because the game never loaded the player models. :/

The second intended use was, as you said, to preserve frames, but it's not because of ram, it's because of hitching caused by your hard drive loading the models. From what I know, UT3 doesn't load player models at the beginning of the maps and that means it never entered the ram in the first place, so whoever joins afterwards gets to be DemoGuy. Yay.

I can sort of see where they thought it may have been a good idea, but it's turned part of the game into a total joke, made having any character besides DemoGuy useless, and made the customization system obsolete. Why even bother having any models besides DemoGuy if that's all I'm going to be or see? :c
This is so aggravating. It's obviously the result of several issues, I can't say I'm a pro at saying how those could have been resolved, but it sure seems like having DemoGuy everywhere would not be the preferable course of action.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 12:59 AM   #268
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Is it all DemoGuy on the console versions? That would be so deliciously hilarious if character models actually work on the consoles.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 01:34 AM   #269
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This is so aggravating. It's obviously the result of several issues, I can't say I'm a pro at saying how those could have been resolved, but it sure seems like having DemoGuy everywhere would not be the preferable course of action.
Eh, my guess is Demoguy is a biproduct of cross-platform development, UE3 seems very geared twords dumping most of its work on the CPU, and going easy on the GPU and RAM, which is what you need when making Console titles (all the current gen ones have good CPU power, adequate GPU's though outdated, and not much RAM), but it's not very good for the PC, for a long time now PC gamers have allways upgraded GPU's and RAM over CPU's, we need the oppisite of the Consoles if anything, we want thouse expensive vid-cards our ours to do as much of the leg-work as possible, and we're not so limited when it comes to virtual memory.

It seems the whole thing could have been prevented just by loading more assets before starting the map.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 01:38 AM   #270
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Is it all DemoGuy on the console versions? That would be so deliciously hilarious if character models actually work on the consoles.
I think they have the same problem. I remember reading something about DemoGuy appearing everywhere from a few console players on Epics board, but the thread was deleted.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 04:01 AM   #271
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At least is there a way to change the DemoGuy character?
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 06:22 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by JohnDoe641 View Post
Why even bother having any models besides DemoGuy if that's all I'm going to be or see? :c
QA must've said "The pr0s and their defaultCharacterModel=Gorge and forceDefaultModel=true aren't going to care so we're not going to worry"
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 07:55 AM   #273
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Everyone reading this section, thread and post is obviously interested in UT3, therefore you should get out and play the game instead of just staring at this. It will work, trust me.
I'm sick of seeing this retarded comment repeated in various forms. People don't game 24/7; some folks also enjoy discussing games and posting on forums--nothing wrong with that. Also, perhaps some folks snack or eat meals while they read forums or like to read forums at times then they can't play or aren't ready to play?

Also, when some people are in fact ready to play--they might play more compelling games, such as UT99 or UT 2004. In my case, I play UT 2004 Onslaught or Invasion-RPG or Sins of a Solar Empire. However, as a serious UT fan and UT3 owner I have an interest in reading UT3 news and in posting about UT3 and the UT franchise. Now why would someone who almost never plays UT3 post at a UT3 forum? In the hopes that Epic will realize and acknowledge its many mistakes with UT3 and that they won't be repeated in a UT4.

Does any of that strike you as being unreasonable or irrational? Can we put this retarded comment about, "Get off the forum, go play UT3" to rest?

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Why am I not playing this game or any other game in the series? I think I would still be playing UT2k4 if I was waiting for UT3 to come out. Why am I not playing this game? Because I can't stay connected on a server for even a game without disconnecting due to duplicate login detected. Only that? Then why am I not playing against bots? Because they are either too easy or too hard, the taunts are silly, four generations of the same weaponry is getting old and repetitive. Look there, I have already started complaining again. It's all those little things that start annoy a quality aware gamer. It's like Quake 4 where you can't gib corpses all over again because of compatibility to german versions. If the game worked and never failed to login or connect, then maybe we wouldn't even have this conversation. Losing connection should not cost you the whole match. I don't see me playing this game in a near future because none seem to be able to talk me into it.
Yet another asinine post. If you're new to the UT franchise (join date Jan 2008) then it's difficult to take much of what you say about UT3 in comparison to the other games or about whether UT3 is good in the context of UT fans should be able to expect from a UT game seriously.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 09:33 AM   #274
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DemoGuy isn't just a bug, it's a way of life.
From what the epic folks have commented on about the "Demo Guy bug," It's not a bug at all, it's how the program works. That means is cannot be fixed or changed.

It's really odd sometimes how it does not work exactly how they say it should. I have gone from my normal skin to Demo Guy in the middle of a match when respawning at times. I have also gone hours playing the whole time as Demo Guy. So, I am not sure it works exactly like they planned.

All those players who have custom skins, non epic skins, are seen as Demo Guy by everyone online who has not downloaded and installed that skin.

Whenever you change teams, your transformed into Demo Guy. So, just the fact that your epic necris skin if blue then cannot switch to red, or if red, cannot switch to blue. The "Demo Guy bug" seems like some sort of temporary fix that became a permanent solution to the real bug.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 09:59 AM   #275
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The solution in Quake is for models to load at the next death. This would cause a delay at respawning but I think thats worth it for some people so maybe thay should give an option to turn off and on The DemoGuy bug.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 10:26 AM   #276
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Don't confuse join date with how many hours I have played the games. It's only recent I have discovered that forum communities are more than pointless. I have twice as many posts a year than you have total.

Forum communities give false hope and bring nothing to the games. Really, this entire section is a huge waste of time, bandwidth and disk space.

Epic's forums with full releases is all I and other users need. This thread and section is as meaningless as the off-topic section with the only difference that the off-topic section can actually have something new and valuable to contribute with.

Epic refuse to listen to any of this because if they did they would never hear the end of it.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 11:13 AM   #277
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From what the epic folks have commented on about the "Demo Guy bug," It's not a bug at all
It's most definitely "by design" to avoid mid-game hangs while loading if you don't have the character that joined in memory already. For instance, you're playing and all the characters are krall and twin souls, when a necris character joins. Currently that character would fall back to Iron Guard since there are no other necris character parts loaded, as opposed to locking up the game for a stretch while megs of data are loaded.

There's some code in there that searches through all loaded models trying to find a good fit before falling back to iron guard, so even if your SPECIFIC krall character isn't loaded, if there's ANY krall character loaded, you'll use that model. I believe there were some definite bugs in the system, but 99% of the times the default iron guard guy was displayed, it was intentional by the designers.

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At least is there a way to change the DemoGuy character?
I don't think there's an easy way to make the "character not in memory, fall back to this model" other than the default iron guard. I think you'll need an already "stiched together" character, which I believe the iron guard is the only one (doesn't require the character customization code). I could be wrong, but when I've tried to make the default character Akasha or what have you, I could never get it to work.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 12:04 PM   #278
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Another way is totally reject idea customizable skins, maybe it would fix problem. I found myself on throught that I never noticed what shoulder or leg armor or boots player use (partially because he is DemoGuy?)
Just predefined models, with different faces and different armor sets.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 12:30 PM   #279
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What could solve it is if just the head loads and the defult armor used for the head is used then when the next chance to load comes up it loads the customised armor peaces.
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Old 9th Jan 2009, 12:37 PM   #280
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"Demoguy"

Loading any newly joined players characters when you die sounds totally acceptable to me.

It would be better if you could always tell certain players from others, team games or otherwise (and "clan" matches, when half the teams swap sides at the start).

I find it really frustrating when heaps of "demoguys" are in a DM map, and most of them are really low skilled players and 1 is very highly skilled.
I tend to ease off a little for really easy players even without realizing, then I see another coming and BAM! It's the good player. Another dozen easy kills, then BAM! Caught off guard again.
Normally you could tell him apart by his character, it's annoying.
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