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Old 5th Dec 2008, 10:09 AM   #201
Bishop F Gantry
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Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
They weren't really portrayed at all. Much like the Skaarj in Unreal, the only things you can really tell about them is that they stick close together, are reptilian, and..... what?

I don't understand the ridiculous hate of the Krall in UT3. They don't look that different from the extremely low res versions presented in Unreal 1, and by all accounts UT3 takes place hundreds of years after Unreal.
Do you randomly sprout extra sets of fingers and toes and consider it normal?

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I just don't understand what is wrong with them. Their body shape isn't that different.
They dont behave like Krall, dont move like Krall, dont look like Krall, dont sound like Krall, they simply arent Krall

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I dunno, I don't think you've made a very strong case for your point Maybe the Krall from Unreal 1 are part of a different subspecies of Krall than the ones in UT3. Maybe the Krall in UT3 were crossbred with Izarians from Unreal 2 Maybe this is just the result of taking the overall extremely low polygon model from Unreal 1 and updating it. Sorry, but you can't see that much detail in the originals.
Do you have any evidence of Krall subspecies or Izarian cross breeding?

If you change the small details you change the bigger picture, if you change enough you no longer have Unreal anymore.

Why Epic has lost contact with the Unreal community because they keep working against it.

Lets scale the issue up shall we "gameplay"

Unreal1 single/multi/coop
UT multi only coop and single removed
ut2k3 movment is completly changed bouncy
ut2k4 vehicles are added
UC its on a bloody console
Unreal2 single only
XMP multi only drastic alter of gameplay thanks to jetpacks
UT3 gameplay is changed again the extreme bounciness is replaced with another extreme movment...

There aint much internal consistency there, heck there isnt even much of a consistency there...

You dont keep customers by throwing inconsistencies in their face. So Krall suddenly growing an extra sets of toes and fingers has everything to do with the inconsistent gameplay of the diffrent titles and the inconsitency has everything to do with why UT3 is generally porly recived, barely played online and not selling as good as it should be doing...

Whereby Epic's response is lol all our customers are pirates...
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 10:13 AM   #202
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The UT3's Krall is the least of the problems of the game. Or better, it isn't one at all. Just a pathetic reason to complain.
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 10:24 AM   #203
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The only real difference is that they move a bit differently, in a "jumpy" style and they don't take the guard pose, but even when normal krall ran, it was humpbacked.

Oh and they don't have "horns" at all, these horns come from their bodies, only are a bit larger than at normal krall and it seems like they had real horns, but they don't at all I think.

And still Krall are the favorite character for me in the game, I play as them normally...
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 12:18 PM   #204
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There aint much internal consistency there, heck there isnt even much of a consistency there...
Hmm, you might be right here. It's more evident when speaking about stories - the more titles are released, the more "version conflicts" of stories appear. Like, why the hell in UT2004 AS-Glacier Izanagi are researching, and the Axon Research corporation are attacking, even though we never encountered absolutely any strike forces of them?
In UT3 there are similar things, like the campaign, or Ronin themselves - they're from Izanagi, wear red, and they're still "Ronin", even though they should be Ghost Warriors! But they never even mentioned Ghost Warriors there!

Those who create levels should think of a good story that doesn't conflict with what was said earlier. Sometimes people do that though - a good example is AS-Mothership, they mention that humans met Skaarj after Vortex Rikers crash - that's a very good fact from Unreal 1 and doesn't conflict with anything, even more, it expands the story of Unreal!
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 03:14 PM   #205
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I guess after reading all of the above posts, I'm feeling pretty inferior, or maybe I have more of a life than I thought. I've been playing UT for what seems like forever, but primarily DM, I never realized (until now) how much thought so many of you put into the game and criticizing it. I guess I never really followed the story line, hell, I didn't even realize there was that much of a story line ! I figured people played primarily to frag the hell out of each other and share thoughts and goals by joining clans...
but I guess you are the same people who keep, or attempt to keep the quality assurance within the game and I thank you for that, however, I do prefer the energy that has been spent on getting game play and bugs worked out rather than a story line.

thanks again for your diligence !
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 03:41 PM   #206
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I don't really care about the story, I beat the SP in a day or so on the hardest setting and I haven't touched it since then. I just want to shoot people with the pew pew.
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 03:59 PM   #207
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I guess after reading all of the above posts, I'm feeling pretty inferior, or maybe I have more of a life than I thought. I've been playing UT for what seems like forever, but primarily DM, I never realized (until now) how much thought so many of you put into the game and criticizing it. I guess I never really followed the story line, hell, I didn't even realize there was that much of a story line ! I figured people played primarily to frag the hell out of each other and share thoughts and goals by joining clans...
but I guess you are the same people who keep, or attempt to keep the quality assurance within the game and I thank you for that, however, I do prefer the energy that has been spent on getting game play and bugs worked out rather than a story line.

thanks again for your diligence !
Well, that's not *THAT* much of thought You probably haven't seen the Liandri Archives then:

http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/Special:Random

This is where all the thought is Try clicking on the Random link and you'll be able to spend days just reading things about all Unreals and thinking how much you missed
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 05:47 PM   #208
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You dont keep customers by throwing inconsistencies in their face.
Consistency can be the opposite of creativity...
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 08:28 PM   #209
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Consistency can be the opposite of creativity...
Depends if you follow a strict set of rules your basiclly allowed to pour all your creativity into whatever new addition you want to add, you can change everything but then nothing new will feel fresh or unique, you can follow the rules and focus on making the new stand out.
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 09:37 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop gantry View Post
Do you randomly sprout extra sets of fingers and toes and consider it normal?
Heard of evolution?
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They dont behave like Krall, dont move like Krall, dont look like Krall, dont sound like Krall, they simply arent Krall
You're right, god forbid I could think that after mor than 100 years, they could be different.

I'm assuming that, like the Skaarj, there are many different "breeds" of Krall. Also, lizards and such evolve at a much faster rate than other species, add some sci-fi-ness and maybe some Necris tinkering, and why couldn't they look and act like they do currently?

What you're arguing is purely semantics. You don't like the Krall's design not because they don't look like the Krall from Unreal 1 but because you don't like the design, either that or you simply refuse to believe there is ANY possible explanation, when plenty of possible explanations are there. They simply don't look that different from Unreal 1 Krall.
Quote:
If you change the small details you change the bigger picture, if you change enough you no longer have Unreal anymore.

Why Epic has lost contact with the Unreal community because they keep working against it.
This makes no sense.

Considering the amount of content in UT3 that is based on previous Unreal games, I hardly think the one single change you are talking about will have any effect on the universe.
Quote:
Lets scale the issue up shall we "gameplay"

So Krall suddenly growing an extra sets of toes and fingers has everything to do with the inconsistent gameplay of the diffrent titles and the inconsitency has everything to do with why UT3 is generally porly recived, barely played online and not selling as good as it should be doing...
Sorry, but this again just reiterates to me your lack of understanding of the Unreal universe all around.

The gameplay doesn't have anything to do with the Krall model. That's completely silly.

Additionally, the "consistency" in this game, in terms of what you are talking about, has nothing to do with why people don't play it. Nobody is coming on here starting threads like "I stopped playing UT3 because the Krall look different than I thought they would coming from Unreal." They are making threads like "Go back to UT200x movement/gameplay" (which nobody but UT200x spazboys want) or "why does Gamespy suck so bad" or "who decided to have virtually no avril ammo around".

Sorry, you're just not making a point that I can agree with.
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 11:18 PM   #211
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UT3 was a letdown in terms of GUI/UI, features, game types available, maps available, amount of players online, just face it, liking UT3's or UT2K4's gameplay is just preference, but factor everything else in besides the gameplay, and UT2K4 is obviously superior to UT3, and the graphics in UT3 have gone absolutely dull on me, their a thing of the past.
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 12:58 AM   #212
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There is certainly plenty of real problems with UT3 without having to make things up like the Krall design.

And, truth is, gameplay makes up quite a large portion of how good a game is. It's ironic that, for a much as people whine about UT3, most of them universally agree that the gameplay is nearly spot on for the game.

So, yes, UT2004 has a superior polish, but that's not getting the whole picture.
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 02:03 AM   #213
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Well I think UT relies a little more heavily on Polish then other games at least for the PC. UT3's gameplay does have its flaws. Unfortunately this game seems to be focused on Vctf and especially Warfare, two game types I don't care for. Public servers are just spam most of the time.
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 02:22 AM   #214
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Public servers are always spam

I think what you're prodding at is that UT gamers generally expect quite a bit of polish in their games. This despite the fact that every other game has been considered highly "unpolished".

Polished - UT, UT2004, UT4?
Unpolished - Unreal, UT2003, UT3

Presumably the next UT game, or perhaps expansion, will be what we were expecting UT3 to be, which would just be in character for Unreal series games thus far.
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 02:50 AM   #215
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UT3's gameplay does have its flaws. Unfortunately this game seems to be focused on Vctf and especially Warfare, two game types I don't care for.
Don't know about that mate, I find myself doing more DM now than in past UTs even. Gameplay-wise I'd rate pretty tight across the board, in fact.

Quote:
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I think what you're prodding at is that UT gamers generally expect quite a bit of polish in their games. This despite the fact that every other game has been considered highly "unpolished".

Polished - UT, UT2004, UT4?
Unpolished - Unreal, UT2003, UT3

Presumably the next UT game, or perhaps expansion, will be what we were expecting UT3 to be, which would just be in character for Unreal series games thus far.
IOW, they've conditioned us to accept staggered false starts and properly finished titles once every five years as par for the course. morkoolaidpleez

Meanwhile, Call of Duty cranks blockbuster hits annually (biennially if you count the dev houses separately) that are by any measure orders of magnitude more successful than UT. God forbid Epic should find within themselves the drive and humility to compete with that, though.
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 03:47 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
They are making threads like "Go back to UT200x movement/gameplay" (which nobody but UT200x spazboys want)
Link ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
UT4?
UT4?

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Old 6th Dec 2008, 04:03 AM   #217
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look man, the ut3 krall DO NOT look like the unreal krall.

That doesn't make them any better or worse. I can accept they are krall, just like i could accept the 2k4 skaarj were skaarj. I can accept they are krall, but they are nothing like the krall from unreal.

And i don't believe this is ut3's biggest problem either. It's just something to debate about on the side.
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 06:16 AM   #218
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As for Krall, Necris tinkering perhaps? These aren't the same primitive creatures the Skaarj assimilated for simple guard duty back in Unreal. These Krall are used to crush, kill and destroy. The top Necris generals (Akasha, Loque) directly commanded them. Of course, they'll be using the finest they can get.
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 09:43 AM   #219
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well krall dont look like krall, necris dont look like necris and lauren... well she kinda looks similar and malcom and xan are on a cruise somewhere together. who cares? as long as the major update/expansion does for UT3 what 2k4 did for UT2003

despite its lack of polish, broken stuff and missing features/options UT3 is still the best in the series...
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Old 6th Dec 2008, 09:55 AM   #220
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Because when UT2004 broke compatibility with UT2003, it screwed up a lot of mod projects that were started on UT2003. Jailbreak and ChaosUT 2 managed to adapt because they were already done on UT2003 and needed only a few changes.
As time goes by, history sometimes gets foggy, or even completely rewritten. The truth is that moving Chaos from UT2003 to UT2004 was a huge pain in the butt, and required very much work. The Chaos team at the time though was dedicated, and talented, and spent a lot of late nights to see it through.

I didn't take the time to search/copy/paste a bunch of specific details for you (our -current- forums date back at least to early 2002), but a comment Neolith made (former Chaos member) at the time summed things up pretty well....

"Yes, seems like they somehow managed to go from "everything will work" over "UT2003 and UT2004 are not network compatible" to "there might be some other problems,..."

Anyway, I can assure you that it was a LOT more than 'only a few changes'.

(late reply, I know, but I don't follow threads 'round here as closely as I used to)

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