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Old 21st Oct 2008, 10:29 PM   #21
zynthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaFO View Post
disagree. It's about time games followed the Microsoft-standard.
This is the Microsoft-way. Love it or get Linux/Macintosh.
That's a little backwards. Only allowing users ownership of data in their owned directory has been a unix standard since forever.

Mutators are hardly an excuse to fix things that should have been right in retail. No one (perhaps less than 1% will) is going to buy a game w/ the knowledge that a user modification will fix the problems they may have read about while deciding on the purchase.

I'd also like to contribute to the New Menu argument but not in the change everything way. Make it an overlay like previous Unreal games were. Currently you have to wait for a 62MB map to load each time.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 12:36 AM   #22
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This thread was a good idea. But it doesn't seem to be working as well as i would hope.
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< this guy says "What story? STFU mutherfrukeres, this game is crap! wasting my 50 buxxors epic suxxors my coxxors!!!lol!!!1one"
< this guy is 1337 and has his reasons for playing UT1 instead of 2kx/3, which as everyone knows, is the best ut game ever
< and this guy is a console n00b, enjoying his "Designed for PS360" copy of UT3. He lives in pure bliss
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 08:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaFO View Post
How many times do you actually *need* the main-menu during normal game ?
Answer : not at all
Real Answer: Many of times I have had to go to the Main Menu during a normal game to change a variety of things. Usually graphics settings (I have a slow graphics bus) and input configuration (I usually don't use default controls in any of my games). Quick access to Main Menu features means less waiting and more fragging.
Quote:
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please define these 'options', because there's a detail-setting and we can even enable motion-blur.
Do we really need more ?
Too many options only confuse newbies and cause unforeseen problems.
Limited options keeps things easy and predictable.
The problem with this statement is that 1) More options means more opportunity for the end user to manage their Graphics/Performance ratio. And that's a good thing. 2) The fact that you want to keep things predictable is a pipe dream in itself, since computers are usually very unpredictable. 3) You're worried about confusing newbies? Haven't you ever heard of the "Advanced Options" sub-section?

Quote:
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get yourself a keyboard with macro-recording capability ...
Wait, you're saying that we should pay more for hardware to make up for a developer's lack of features?

ps: That was a rhetorical question, I probably won't reply for a few days.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 12:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
please define these 'options', because there's a detail-setting and we can even enable motion-blur.
There are LOTS of useful options that don't have a configuration setting ingame. And that "Detail setting" slider actually changes dozens of configuration settings depending on which number you set it to.

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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 12:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronKnuckle View Post
This thread was a good idea. But it doesn't seem to be working as well as i would hope.
This thread was never a good idea and the responses therein are evidence to that fact.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 01:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by paul527 View Post
Real Answer: Many of times I have had to go to the Main Menu during a normal game to change a variety of things. Usually graphics settings (I have a slow graphics bus) and input configuration (I usually don't use default controls in any of my games). Quick access to Main Menu features means less waiting and more fragging.
If you really are changing your settings every time you play the game then there's something wrong either in the design or use of the features.
I think it would be best solved by added gametype-specific input-configurations.
The Battlefield- and GTA-series for example has a separate set of inputs for vehicle- and pedestrian activies.
In UT that might be extended to a separate config per gametype or something similar.

Quote:
The problem with this statement is that 1) More options means more opportunity for the end user to manage their Graphics/Performance ratio. And that's a good thing. 2) The fact that you want to keep things predictable is a pipe dream in itself, since computers are usually very unpredictable.
which makes it all the more desirable to keep the amount of choices down.
4 toggles : 16 variants
8 toggles : 256 variants
which one would be easier to test and maintain ?
the one with fewer options may not give you the perfect graphics/performance-ratio, but only a tiny minority is willing to tweak that much.


Quote:
3) You're worried about confusing newbies? Haven't you ever heard of the "Advanced Options" sub-section?
And that has stopped the uninformed from using these settings how ?


Quote:
Wait, you're saying that we should pay more for hardware to make up for a developer's lack of features?

ps: That was a rhetorical question, I probably won't reply for a few days.
I'm saying that if you really really 'need' such a feature then you don't need Epic's help.
Besides ... not having a pipedweaponswitch also makes it easier to balance the game as the sub-optimal weaponswitch-speed becomes part of the game.

Quote:
There are LOTS of useful options that don't have a configuration setting ingame.
Define 'useful' ... or do could it be that you don't really know what effect the various settings have (it may even be a placebo-effect ... ).

Quote:
And that "Detail setting" slider actually changes dozens of configuration settings depending on which number you set it to.
That only is a problem if you need to change those additional settings.
Then again ... perhaps that is why they were hidden to begin with.
// ---
Quote:
the only thing that is wrong with the Voices in UT3 is they are not finished, dont always play correctly, have that ridiculous delay/priority system, are not customizable and there are too few of them (all of which i would of course love to be fixed!)
IMHO this is the only thing that really needs to be fixed, but I think we'd need to wait for the mysterious 'expansionpack' to see if it will be.
At least we've got a working faction/family-feature
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 01:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Define 'useful' ... or do could it be that you don't really know what effect the various settings have (it may even be a placebo-effect ... ).
Useful enough that third party applications have been written to optimize them all for you.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 01:48 PM   #28
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List is growing, and nobody will read it then. Add some nice text formatting here.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 01:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaFO View Post
If you really are changing your settings every time you play the game then there's something wrong either in the design or use of the features.
I think it would be best solved by added gametype-specific input-configurations.
The Battlefield- and GTA-series for example has a separate set of inputs for vehicle- and pedestrian activies.
In UT that might be extended to a separate config per gametype or something similar.
Good idea.


Quote:
which makes it all the more desirable to keep the amount of choices down.
4 toggles : 16 variants
8 toggles : 256 variants
which one would be easier to test and maintain ?
the one with fewer options may not give you the perfect graphics/performance-ratio, but only a tiny minority is willing to tweak that much.
If your games are typically built on cutting edge engines, having the options to tweak is very important. It could make the difference between being able to play the game comfortably, and being stuck with either beautiful graphics in powerpoint-mode or fugly graphics that could easily be better had you been given the option to.

Quote:
And that has stopped the uninformed from using these settings how ?
These people that are confused about graphics settings and would rather not mess with them too much, are not going to go into the 'optional' advanced settings menu and stare at it all day, thinking "golly, I have no idea what this all does..."

They just back out of that menu and use the regular sliders. Problem fixed.
The people that DO want to mess with the advanced settings but have no clue what they do cannot be helped by a menu layout. Only internet forums and their own efforts can do that.

Quote:
Define 'useful' ... or do could it be that you don't really know what effect the various settings have (it may even be a placebo-effect ... ).
Useful because they tailor the game to your personal preferences and make it easier/more comfortable and therefore more enjoyable to play. Don't ask ridiculous questions like these, please.
Btw, FRAPS and ingame FPS counters generally do not suffer from placebo effect.

Quote:
That only is a problem if you need to change those additional settings.
Then again ... perhaps that is why they were hidden to begin with.
"It was a design decision"
You should go work for Epic!
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 02:32 PM   #30
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Useful enough that third party applications have been written to optimize them all for you.
So instead of Epic chosing the 'perfect' defaults at any given detail-setting you use another application to make those choices for you.
It still is a long way from having access to all these options in the GUI itself.
And since there is a (3rd party) application that 'fixes' this I see no real need to have Epic add them all to the GUI.

// ---
Quote:
Btw, FRAPS and ingame FPS counters generally do not suffer from placebo effect.
that depends on the person using them ... for every point in the game where an option appears to have an effect on the framerate there's also another one that either shows the opposite or highlights why it would be a 'bad idea' to change it.
I doubt that the average tweaker has enough testcases to show that the changes were in fact a 'good idea'.

Quote:
They just back out of that menu and use the regular sliders. Problem fixed.
I wished life was that easy, because that would drastically reduce the number of tech-support calls the company I work for gets each month/day.
Unfortunately too many users mess with stuff they have no knowledge of and then they blame 'us' for causing it.

Quote:
Don't ask ridiculous questions like these, please.
vague specifications result in vague solutions or no response at all.
If you really want Epic (or any developer for that matter) to be able to use your advice then you need to be specific.
You don't need "more" options.
You need the right options ... and determining which ones are right is what is needed for Epic to be able to 'fix' this in a patch/expansionpack.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 03:02 PM   #31
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Turns out that I actually have time today to respond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaFO View Post
If you really are changing your settings every time you play the game then there's something wrong either in the design or use of the features.
I think it would be best solved by added gametype-specific input-configurations.
The Battlefield- and GTA-series for example has a separate set of inputs for vehicle- and pedestrian activies.
In UT that might be extended to a separate config per gametype or something similar.
Good Idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaFO View Post
which makes it all the more desirable to keep the amount of choices down.
4 toggles : 16 variants
8 toggles : 256 variants
which one would be easier to test and maintain ?
the one with fewer options may not give you the perfect graphics/performance-ratio, but only a tiny minority is willing to tweak that much.
...
And that has stopped the uninformed from using these settings how ?
I'll just ditto what DarQraven said for these two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaFO View Post
I'm saying that if you really really 'need' such a feature then you don't need Epic's help.
Besides ... not having a pipedweaponswitch also makes it easier to balance the game as the sub-optimal weaponswitch-speed becomes part of the game.
I guess I'll have to agree on this one.

EDIT: Dang I can't wait for that "expansion pack". Who knows what it can hold (like a Wonderball) *sings commercial jingle*

EDIT#2:

Last edited by paul527; 22nd Oct 2008 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 03:24 PM   #32
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Good thread!

Regarding graphics options, I simply set everything to max and play all night...
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 10:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
And since there is a (3rd party) application that 'fixes' this I see no real need to have Epic add them all to the GUI.
You're missing the point. WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WRITE THIRD PARTY APPLICATIONS TO DO MORE EASILY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE DONE IN THE USER INTERFACE. Said applications were written due to Epics faliure to make something that should be easy, easy.

Hope caps lock spells it out for you.
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 06:21 AM   #34
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Some games come with a loader application where you can select resolution and other graphics settings as well as audio and key bindings. If Epic did that, it would be acceptable, but having it all in the game is a good option too, so you don't have to restart it whenever you want to change something.

I don't like third party executables, it ain't safe and those features should be available from within the game.
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 07:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Sammael View Post
Instant Action doesn't save settings
Yes, and the menu system as a whole should work like UT2K4's, so no more going to 'main' when quitting a map etc.

Quote:
No bot configuration at all, can't even configure the teams
Yes, bot management and customization should be at least as good as in 2K4, with drag & drop avatars, individual skill & task config, voice pack selection...

Also:

Bring back 4 teams, as (apparently) was originally planned.

Better mod support, especially for voice packs.

You should be able to hear your own taunts, like in previous UTs. Indeed the whole taunt system should be restored to its former glory, and expanded with more situational feedback, like 'oops, sorry!' when a bot teamkills you (now they just taunt you, wtf!?) and more praise for various achievements in team games.

Speaking of achievements, classics like 'Flak Monkey' need to return, and many new ones added, including silly ones like 'Suicide King', 'Teamkiller' & 'N00blord'. Should automatically appear onscreen after the match, for all to see.

Make it (much) easier for people to make (and make money from) custom content, and heavily emphasize this feature when marketing the game.

Actually market the game!!

Make JailBreak an official gametype (could easily make the game more popular).

Change WAR into something that makes more sense, with respawners and vehicle factories that need to be captured/destroyed instead of silly cores & nodes. Make some of the maps asymmetrical with, for example, a fixed base vs a mobile army ('siege').

Pimp out CTF with new submodes where you have to, for example, capture live nali cows (which have to be stunned and carried, and can escape when dropped) or nukes (with timer) instead of just plain old flags.

Take a clue from mods like BW, and add a realistic weapon set. Purists can still play with just the old set, so STFU.

FP view in vehicles.

Teamskins and bringhtskins should be optional. Not everyone likes fugly glowsticks, ya know!

More and better blood & gore. Again, take a clue from BW (Bloody Hell) and other mods/muts.

More diverse and crazier player models. Just hire Davision, EvilEngine, and other talented modelers.

More diverse and crazier maps. Again, there's plenty of talent in the community, USE IT! The game's got to look hot right out of the box (so people will, you know, actually buy it), not just after heavy modding.

No more gheyspy. Seriously!

...

Last edited by Interbellum; 23rd Oct 2008 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 07:52 AM   #36
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Make JailBreak an official gametype (could easily make the game more popular)
Meh. It is really needed? Honestly, I don't want a bunch of useless MB on my HD for a gametype which I'll never play.
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 08:09 AM   #37
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How about making maps for different gametypes optional when you install the game. With check boxes and a way to install contents from DVD at first use to save disk space.

What happened to Chaos? I sure hope they will return one day. This expansion must be a success or this niche game will die.
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 08:43 AM   #38
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Meh. It is really needed?
It is if you want this game to become more popular. Got to give people something new, not just more of the same. Besides, JB is a kickass gametype that deserves some serious spotlighting.

Incidentally, JB could (also) be integrated into the WAR replacement gametype I mentioned in my previous post.

Quote:
Honestly, I don't want a bunch of useless MB on my HD for a gametype which I'll never play.
MBs are cheap nowadays... Technically speaking, WAR, Duel, vCTF & the campaign are all dead weight for me, but so what? They don't bother me when I play (T)DM or CTF.
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 09:33 AM   #39
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How about making maps for different gametypes optional when you install the game. With check boxes and a way to install contents from DVD at first use to save disk space.
Probably the best option. Never liked JB here.
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 12:28 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Sammael View Post
Instant Action doesn't save settings

No bot configuration at all, can't even configure the teams

QFT, they must get these features back in the game. Plus the ability to save keybinds.
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