Should Epic repeat the 2k3 -> 2k4 history again to save UT3?

[Sir_Brizz]

Originally Posted by neilthecellist

I want a game with MORE MAPS.

And more goddam* materials to work with in the editor! Everything that I see in the "new" Unreal Editor is packaged with the same old future-tech-and-some-chinese-drab-and-a-few-nature-materials.

Seriously... That's all I see. I expected more for my $49.99

Yes, because UT3 has so much less content than every other game out there on the market! What a rip off!

Originally Posted by Crotale

As much as I remember all the complaining about UT2003 in the first months of its release, I never saw such widespread vehement hate for the game and the devs as I've seen of late concerning UT3/Epic. Across all UT-related forums I frequent (and there are quite a few) I see mostly hate for this game. And on non-UT-related forums, most say they either didn't like the demo or just aren't interested.

You weren't around very much back then, were you? There was all kinds of hate towards UT2003, even before the game came out. The difference is, back then the haters left the community and did other things with their time, now the haters stick around and terrorize everyone else for whatever reason. Maybe maturity level or something.

If you're talking about ProU, they have spewed hate about every UT game since their inception. Most of those guys have never seemed to like UT, I don't understand why they stick around the community.

Other Unreal communities are mostly either retro (and wouldn't have liked UT3 no matter what) or are young and immature communities (in general, not specific people) and probably aren't all that into UT anyway.

Also, this is the first UT game that was released with an official Epic forum for it. I tend to think that is why the negativity seems so much higher. In UT2003 and UT2004 Infogrames ran the message boards, and it was just viewed as a mockery of an internet community by anyone who didn't frequent there.

Maybe. I know I'm willing to give it a chance, but I'm a diehard. Honestly, though, I think any new version released too soon will surely meet an early demise, as most will remember what turned them off to UT3. Giving it an easy 18-24 months will provide some time to pass and hopefully allow for some "wounds" to heal.

The people it will bring in are the people who didn't even give UT3 a chance, there are obviously a lot of these people.

You act like the vast majority of gamers showed interest in UT3 and were turned off to it, when in reality it's probably likely that very few people even now know that another UT game came out (or were turned off before even trying it). Still, I doubt another UT game will be out before next Summer.

[Molgan]

It's not the community's fault UT3 flopped, it's Epics/Midways fault for not making sure they made a product people wanted or expected. Don't blame the haters, blame the lack of praise. Nobody heard of the game? No wonder with this lack of marketing and the fumbling release. UT is and will always be a niche product so it's very important to make sure the target group is happy.

Really, you can't just throw a game out and hope people will like it. And all these excuses people come up with, "it's the whining that killed it", "have to compete with other titles", "the game is excellent but people are to dumb to see it" etc are just empty and not in touch with reality.

[Crotale]

Yes, I was around a lot for the UT2003 launch. I played UT for about 2 years before that. I do recall a lot of hate, what with the lack of demorec and servers counting bots, looks too much like Quake, etc., but the hate I've seen lately tops it by a mile. And even though a lot of people called UT2003/4 dead upon each release, those two games always had a fairly sizable online community as compared to UT3.

IF Midway will actually promote the next UT game, it might stand a chance. I remember how much they promoted UC2 and it still bombed. I have to wonder if that had any effect on the advertising for UT3 at all.

I hope the next game does fare better than the current one.

I just don't get why the haters tend to stick around. For me, I would do more to help the community, but I do not have the luxury of running a server anymore, nor do I care much to play online these days.

[DGUnreal]

A lot is being missed in this conversation...

Everyone is thinking PC. If a UT3.5 (NTGOTY*) or similar "patched with a few more bits" version is released, what does that mean for the consoles?
The logistics of releasing three UT3.5's is considerably different than the UT2003 -> UT2004 update.
And if it is available on only one or two of the platforms, the community is going to switch into instant full-flame mode again.

* Not the Game of the Year


Any patching, even UT3 Patch 3, most likely will be multi-platform even to some extent just to fix bugs and issues. This means that the release of large patches are going to take much longer. Everything has to be cooked and tested on three systems.


What are the specifics of the Midway Epic contract?
Epic could possibly just release a PS3/X360 UC3 or some other console-exclusive game with "Unreal" in the title. Or a UT3 Add-on Pack for $9.95. Etc. And this may fill their contract quota. I really doubt it means we will all be seeing a UT4 PC/PS3/X360 and a UT5 PC/PS3/X360 just to fulfill this contract. Partially because Midway also really dropped the ball on UT3. If Epic was smart their side of the contract should let them out of this with Midway because of Midway's poor advertising etc.


Brizz is correct that any UT3.5 release has to be at least 12 to 18 months later. Anything sooner will simply tick off the people who just bought UT3.
And adding back in all of the "missing" game types, features, redoing the ui, etc., is going to take a long time anyway since Epic has limited resources and manpower to draw off of and UT3 is (no doubt) not their top priority right now. Anything below a full new release with a lot of changes will have people complaining that it should be a patch, a full release too soon will alienate the people who just bought UT3. Even the drop in price so soon on UT3 has been hard to swallow for those who paid full-pop when it was originally released (like me with 3 copies bought).
Last I looked: Amazon $29.99 free shipping, GameStop, EB Games, Best Buy, Steam, all $29.99.

Any game that drops to almost half-price in six months usually means that things are not looking up...


Regarding UT3, my perspective on it is that Epic will probably just release a few more patches and bonus packs, and then move on to UT4 which we will see in a few years.

[Sir_Brizz]

Originally Posted by Crotale

Yes, I was around a lot for the UT2003 launch. I played UT for about 2 years before that. I do recall a lot of hate, what with the lack of demorec and servers counting bots, looks too much like Quake, etc., but the hate I've seen lately tops it by a mile. And even though a lot of people called UT2003/4 dead upon each release, those two games always had a fairly sizable online community as compared to UT3.

No they didn't. Not counting bots, both of them were probably about the same as UT3 is now after 6 months as far as retail players is concerned.

[Molgan]

Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz

No they didn't. Not counting bots, both of them were probably about the same as UT3 is now after 6 months as far as retail players is concerned.

Bah cut that bs already!

[Dark Pulse]

Originally Posted by Molgan

They can keep the eye candy, movement and weapons as it is if they just fix the wall dodge and turn gravity to the same level as it was in 2k4.

No, no, a thousand times no. Floaty Gravity was exactly what made UT2004 a Laser Show and contributed greatly to the extreme hitscan dominance that was prevalent in that title for the last two years or so of its life.

Originally Posted by Molgan

It's not the community's fault UT3 flopped, it's Epics/Midways fault for not making sure they made a product people wanted or expected. Don't blame the haters, blame the lack of praise.

83 of 100 according to Metacritic. Lots of low 90s and 80s. The score is mostly brought down by sites that have no business doing reviews, like 1up and Game Revolution. (They gave it a 60 and 58 respectively.) I think most of us who have played UT3 will agree that while the game is not without its faults, it's hardly worth a 60. Pariah or Warpath, yes, but even UT3 is better than that.

[Jrubzjeknf]

Agreed, but its missing the polish. Without that polish, this game is not nearly as good as it could be, which causes a lot of that hate.

[neilthecellist]

Very simple things, like being able to save settings from previous bot matches... I hate having to switch from Average to Skilled/Adept every time I want to play a match.

Oh, and where's the regenerating health mutator? Why get rid of a feature for no reason? If people don't like it, they won't apply the mutator.... No reason to eliminate the mutator ENTIRELY.

EDIT: WHERE IS "bright player skins"? I can't see jack sh*t when I'm playing, the HDR always mixes with the blue, and turning off HDR just makes the game look worse than UT2004, so what the hell kind of trade off am I supposed to have?

Answer: Give us "bright player skins" back, damnit.

[Dark Pulse]

Part of it was the lack of polish, yes, but it also had to go up against real heavy hitters like TF2, COD4, and Crysis, which seemed to be everyone's favorite joygasm poster child at the time, until people actually played it and learned that it looked pretty, ran like ass, and was basically Farcry with tweaks.

Ironic that Crysis has had its support pulled while UT3 support, even if it's by a skeleton crew due to 360 Development/GOW2/Willhaven being out of bagels, is ongoing and will have at least twice the patches of Crysis.

If UT3 were released now in its current Patch 1.2 state, it'd probably have fared a LOT better, without so much competition to go up against, but alas. I'm still happy I bought the game and always will be, as it's just my sort of game.

Originally Posted by neilthecellist

Oh, and where's the regenerating health mutator? Why get rid of a feature for no reason? If people don't like it, they won't apply the mutator.... No reason to eliminate the mutator ENTIRELY.

UT never had a regenerating health mutator out of the box... the closest it came was with the Relics in UT BP1.

[Molgan]

Originally Posted by Dark Pulse

No, no, a thousand times no. Floaty Gravity was exactly what made UT2004 a Laser Show and contributed greatly to the extreme hitscan dominance that was prevalent in that title for the last two years or so of its life.

No I don't want the 2k4 pixel shooting back and I'm not against the removal of the dodge jump. Removing dodge jump AND increasing gravity was over the top thou. They should have picked just one of the options.

Originally Posted by Dark Pulse

83 of 100 according to Metacritic. Lots of low 90s and 80s. The score is mostly brought down by sites that have no business doing reviews, like 1up and Game Revolution. (They gave it a 60 and 58 respectively.) I think most of us who have played UT3 will agree that while the game is not without its faults, it's hardly worth a 60. Pariah or Warpath, yes, but even UT3 is better than that.

Yes, and I think the general negative vibe is causing it, and that negative vibe didn't spawn for no reason.

And I'm a lover not a hater, just sad to see this awesome title go to waste.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

If they want too they can is my opinion.
They could just get away with another ECE ... but for now im happy with waiting for patches and eating muffins

[Kantham]

Originally Posted by Jrubzjeknf

Yes.

.

[MonsOlympus]

Originally Posted by Dark Pulse

UT never had a regenerating health mutator out of the box... the closest it came was with the Relics in UT BP1.

I think 2k4 did, I preferred vampire anyways but hey requests on utforums is there for a reason. I saw alot better regen muts released by the community for 2k4 anyways

I was kinda looking forward to some classic muts that were missing and there wasnt much in the way of new mutators either.

[DGUnreal]

Almost no muts or mods become mainstream in the UT games. They never did and never will. Only small groups and clans really use this type of stuff.
Unless Epic puts it into a future bonus pack, additional content just won't make it onto most of the servers. Which is why all of the "let's fix the UI ourselves" etc. is pointless and a waste of time.
And myself, I avoid servers running most custom maps and fifty muts simply because I don't want all of that garbage choking up my system, most community hackers unfortunately don't know what they are doing, and too much of the hacked-in content is messing up people's UT3 installs.

[Grasshopper]

I don't think this could be patched enough to fix. A great number of the complaints are tied to Gamespy. A patch won't get rid of that. Epic completely ignored all of the demo feedback and rushed this game out the door. I know they have fixed some things. The UI and the features and options will probably never be what we all expected. It will do no good to complain on Epic's forums because Flak and War Tourist will just delete the posts and threads that they don't like. Gamers ideas will never get a fair hearing. If they came out with UT4 , that fixed all of the problems, gave us all the new AI, voice commands and filled all of the other empty promises, I would buy it. It would be really hard to trust Epic at this point. If they knew it was the last chance to keep their fan base, maybe they would do the right thing instead of the easy thing.

[neilthecellist]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I don't think this could be patched enough to fix. A great number of the complaints are tied to Gamespy. A patch won't get rid of that. Epic completely ignored all of the demo feedback and rushed this game out the door. I know they have fixed some things. The UI and the features and options will probably never be what we all expected. It will do no good to complain on Epic's forums because Flak and War Tourist will just delete the posts and threads that they don't like. Gamers ideas will never get a fair hearing. If they came out with UT4 , that fixed all of the problems, gave us all the new AI, voice commands and filled all of the other empty promises, I would buy it. It would be really hard to trust Epic at this point. If they knew it was the last chance to keep their fan base, maybe they would do the right thing instead of the easy thing.

You're making Epic sound like Ubisoft. Epic isn't as bad as Ubisoft, believe me.

[Jrubzjeknf]

Originally Posted by Dark Pulse

UT never had a regenerating health mutator out of the box... the closest it came was with the Relics in UT BP1.

http://ericdives.com/UT2004-UnCodex/.../mutregen.html

You just have to be wrong, don't you? I'll let the rest take care of the tags.

[Sir_Brizz]

Originally Posted by neilthecellist

Oh, and where's the regenerating health mutator? Why get rid of a feature for no reason? If people don't like it, they won't apply the mutator.... No reason to eliminate the mutator ENTIRELY.

This argument is so stupid. I can understand your complaints with settings not being saved, but this is just dumb. It's not like they had a regenerating health mutator built for UT3 and then deleted the code out. It's probably highly likely that nobody ever thought to or cared to port that mutator. That's what happens when you make a new game. You decide what to bring along, what to create new, and what to ditch.

EDIT: WHERE IS "bright player skins"? I can't see jack sh*t when I'm playing, the HDR always mixes with the blue, and turning off HDR just makes the game look worse than UT2004, so what the hell kind of trade off am I supposed to have?

I haven't had any problems. Granted I've never really played at detail 1 or 2, but at 3 and above I have no problem seeing other players. What gametype are you even talking about? In team games, there are "brightskins" already.

Originally Posted by Molgan

Bah cut that bs already!

Oh, okay. I'll stop telling the truth for your benefit.

[vybz]

ut3 run like ass :s, the performance is great for the graphics