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Old 8th Mar 2008, 04:26 PM   #1
TheNihilist
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Not too bad at 2k4, suck at 3

I have gotten rather good at UT2k4. I'm not amazing or anything, but I can hold my own. However, I have a difficult job dealing with UT3. Something about the movement and the way things work and... I just have difficulty with it. Did anyone else have this problem?
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 05:53 PM   #2
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Can you be more specific? A lot of things are different so if you could figure out what the problems are maybe you could adjust better.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 06:23 PM   #3
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Without getting into too many details:

UT3 is a lot faster than 2k4. When you make a mistake in UT3, it usually leads to you instantly getting killed rather than losing some health or having to run away with the shield as in UT2k4. The way you succeed, especially in DM, is by PLANNING AHEAD. Good aim and movement skills are not going to bail you out if you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If you really want to get an idea what a good player is doing that you aren't, try spectating some people who routinely beat you. That's always instructive.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 06:36 PM   #4
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I dunno what to say, Lethargy. I seem to miss more and have more trouble moving and aiming. pine may be right, maybe it's just the speed. I was just wondering if this is an abnormal issue.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 07:45 PM   #5
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Well if you are talking about offline as well the bots are much better ... they have a rather erratic movement style and they are really good at dodging and changing their direction in a split second, this combined with their accuracy make them devasting on almost any level of play. You also have to take into account the weapons do more damage in this version and this is without the benefit of adrenaline so that you can boost your health which also boosted your armor if you had enough adrenaline and now you can see the effects of not having this. You die a lot more often and a lot faster than in UT2k4. Heck I was playing God Mode against bots at my peak and owning them in UT2K4 ... I could never see that happening in UT3, the bots are so jumpy and yet they don't miss when they are jumping ... it gets crazy. Also the weapons have a different fire rate and so this takes time to adjust to all of this. I doubt I'll make a significant jump in my skill level before the next 6 months ... Experienced/Skilled for DM and Average for Warfare.
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Old 8th Mar 2008, 11:18 PM   #6
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 12:13 AM   #7
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Well if you are talking about offline as well the bots are much better ... they have a rather erratic movement style and they are really good at dodging and changing their direction in a split second, this combined with their accuracy make them devasting on almost any level of play.

Heck I was playing God Mode against bots at my peak and owning them in UT2K4 ... I could never see that happening in UT3, the bots are so jumpy and yet they don't miss when they are jumping ... it gets crazy. Also the weapons have a different fire rate and so this takes time to adjust to all of this. I doubt I'll make a significant jump in my skill level before the next 6 months ... Experienced/Skilled for DM and Average for Warfare.
2k4 bots were decent but stupid and very easy to kill I agree, but I don't agree that the UT3 bots are better. I find it just as easy to hit them and kill them as I did in 2k4, probably even more so. I dunno what type of erratic movement your bots do but I can track them almost 100% of the time without losing them on my xhair. I beat the SP mode on the hardest level without losing a single match except for some WAR map that I can't remember.

TheNihilist, 2k4 is just pew pew aim spamming with the shock rifle on 90% of the server due to UTComp. UT3 has no newnet nor any type of ping compensation. It's also more about strategy than aim spam unlike 2k4. Work on outsmarting your opponent instead of out aiming them.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 01:59 AM   #8
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UT2004's scale and dodge-jump made it really easy to avoid projectiles and face-to-face battles, and instead promoted long-range pew-pew hitscan battles. If things are going tits up, you can put up your shield and run away.

That stuff doesn't work in UT3. You'll have to deal with these projectile things, close-quarter battles, and fighting to the death as opposed to high-tailing it out of a sticky situation. Different games, different approaches to success.

Theoretically, UT2004 was about staying alive, while UT3 is about not letting your opponents stay alive. A subtle difference that makes a huge difference in the end.

As for your aim, I think there's something fishy with UT3's mouse input (and many others say the same). My UT and UT2004 mouse sensitivity is quicker than UT3 yet UT3 still feels very loose and imprecise. Dunno why, but it's very annoying. Additionally, the shock and sniper feel off and inaccurate even offline, so when you add 60 ping to the mix using them is hardly worth the effort.

I disagree with UT3 being faster. They're the same speed overall but quite different in style. UT2004 has a faster weapon switch which enhances its feeling of speed, as do the number of acrobatic moves you can do. If you equate speed as the rate at which you die by rockets, then yes, UT3 is faster.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 03:23 AM   #9
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It looks like the mouse acceleration of XP affects the aim ingame, I used the CPL mouse fix, and I can aim better.

Well, but since I don't have constant 60 fps, it's far from great. And around 90 fps is required for good aim. -.-
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 04:07 AM   #10
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I disagree with UT3 being faster. They're the same speed overall but quite different in style. UT2004 has a faster weapon switch which enhances its feeling of speed, as do the number of acrobatic moves you can do. If you equate speed as the rate at which you die by rockets, then yes, UT3 is faster.
When you're at close range with other people, they zoom around your screen faster than in UT2004. Just trying to keep track of somebody at close range when you're both dodging around is actually kind of hard. You seem to run faster, the dodge is quicker and crisper (and you can do two dodges with less of a wait between them), you can change directions more quickly, there's more air control, kills are more instantaneous, etc.

Whether or not it's "actually" faster measured in unreal units per second or whatever is irrelevant. imho, it looks and feels more a lot more hectic.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 04:53 AM   #11
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That's just the map scale keeping people a lot closer to you than the alternative. UT2004's scale is broken and dumb and thus allows people to keep away from one another. In a proper map UT2004 is just as fast, and semi-old-school FragBU DM matches Ironic showed that quite well. Although, the amount of time spent in the air probably factors in as well. More time on the ground means more time to zig and zag rather than float and fly. Seems faster; probably isn't.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 08:16 AM   #12
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Speaking as an Insta player, I also feel like the game has changed alot, just not sure if it's for the better. I'm the same as the OP, I'm better than average in UT2k4 but just can't get the hang of UT3. I've played in clans of different skill levels since UT, and was really looking forward to UT3.

In Insta games, normally you see someone on the other side and he sees you, within seconds he is dead or you are. In UT3 I've found myself running around in little circles, shooting constantly, and he is doing the same, sometimes another blokey joins in and then it's 3 of us dancing around shooting the place up, but still not hitting anything. Admittedly, I can still get some good shots off, but normally end up doing the UT3 dance.

I've also specced some really good players, and again they do the little dance, not as often as me but they still do it. Also I find it hard to tell where the shots are coming from. Again I'm getting better the more I play it, but it just doesn't have the same appeal as all of the other UT games. Out of all of the games, I did prefer UT, then UT2k4, so as I'd heard the movement was supposed to be more like UT than UT2k4. (I could never do the fancy jumps under pressure, so I never bothered with them, which lead to me being called a n00b because of the way I moved all the time, and a cheat when I made some good shots, again because I didn't do the trick jumps, I shouldn't be able to make any good shots). I couldn't wait until UT3 came out, and I had it on pre-order for years (or so it seemed).

My advice is to stick with it and it, and you'll get better. Also it would help to get more people on the servers and keep them there, then we all can improve.

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Old 9th Mar 2008, 08:53 AM   #13
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My advice is to stick with it and it, and you'll get better. Also it would help to get more people on the servers and keep them there, then we all can improve.
+1

I think aiming is a little harder because players spend more time on the ground and can change direction faster. Practice is all that is needed though, watch some great players in duel and you will see that with some time and effort, you can aim very well idd.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 01:17 PM   #14
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Although, the amount of time spent in the air probably factors in as well. More time on the ground means more time to zig and zag rather than float and fly. Seems faster; probably isn't.
Well... what standard would you use to measure the speed of the game, other than what it feels like when you play it? If it feels faster to you, like if your brain has to react more quickly than it would in UT2004, then it IS faster to you. You can't cover distances as quickly because of the lack of the dodge-jump (although you can go REALLY fast with the jump boots) but that's not really what I'm talking about anyways.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 02:33 PM   #15
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I have gotten rather good at UT2k4.
Playing what? TAM, TDM, 1v1, CTF?
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 08:10 PM   #16
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Playing what? TAM, TDM, 1v1, CTF?
RPG Invasion
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Old 16th Mar 2008, 09:37 PM   #17
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Playing what? TAM, TDM, 1v1, CTF?
DM. By relatively good I mean I can get middle of the score board most of the time, unless I'm up against very skilled opponents.
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Old 18th Mar 2008, 12:21 AM   #18
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Well I have gone back to 04. I was quite the noob for a year or so in 04 before UT3. Ut3 came out 4 months ago and I played the hell out of it. It really trained for for backtracking into 04 though. I can get 2nd-4th most of the time unless I'm facing "Falcon."

*Don't get the reference?
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Old 18th Mar 2008, 12:43 AM   #19
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When you say that you're doing 2nd-4th it doesn't really tell us much.

On a pub it's extremely easy to get that high for most people here, yet in a pug or scrim that's not the case (depending on players). You need to specify which conditions your getting the scores in or it's hard to tell what skill level you're at. Even then, it could be hard to judge.

The Nihilist, you're talking about FFA DM, not TDM, right? What are your k/d ratios?
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Old 18th Mar 2008, 12:55 AM   #20
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Let's just put it this way John, I can definitely tell that I'm facing advanced-godly players on the server I play on. Nothing but good players play on Kittys.
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