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Old 10th Feb 2008, 09:48 PM   #61
Anuban
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Originally Posted by Mr. UglyPants View Post
seems more of a waste of megabytes to give them something that wouldn't really give the same gameplay experience.
It takes next to nothing to cook at Map ... heck I even offer to do the cooking and many folks have taken me up on it and are all happy with my work so that is no reason at all. Also let the PS3 users decide what map is a waste of their time or not just like the PC users. I know there are plenty of maps I don't download for one reason or another.

Edit: I'm not suggesting any PC modder do any extra work to get their content to work correctly on the PS3. I feel that is Epic's responsibility to make sure their tools work since they made the promise to the console gamers and not the modders. So I don't believe that if content doesn't work after it is cooked that people should spend time trying to figure out why ... Epic should have some solid documentation so until then no PS3 version for that type of content.
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Last edited by Anuban; 10th Feb 2008 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 10th Feb 2008, 10:23 PM   #62
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Meh, I disagree. I was using him as an example.

People who simply spout off their mouth without specific issues and specific evidence to prove their issues -- simply spout off their mouth. It happens a lot -- he was the perfect example.

Makes you wonder -- if he doesn't know why he's complaining... how many honestly do?
People need neither reason nor evidence to like or dislike anything as subjective as an entertainment product, it is personal preference, not a science, and it is not really up for debate, you can agree or disagree, of course, but that is really all there is to be said about that.

Specific conplaints we can argue however, for instance you seem to be saying that the UI is OK because it does actually work, whereas i would argue that the fact that it does not turn my PC into a smoldering pile of scrap metal, just means it is living up to the bare minimum that any software must comply with (with the possible exception of virii), and that is hardly worth praise, nor do i feel we should be contempt with the bare minimum considdering what we came from, i didn't pay full retail price expecting a severe downgrade, i knew there would be shortcomings, its a new engine with all new assets, but this is just an insult..
But again, none of this is any "evidence" either, it is just more personal preference.
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Old 10th Feb 2008, 10:45 PM   #63
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Errrmmm... back on topic, what do people think of the general potential for a "mappers strike" and its general feasibility? I've seen some people on here say that they would in fact cook other people's maps themselves if it came to that because they think such a strike would be childish, I disagree, but I'm just wondering if, even potential for success aside, if the mapping community is cohesive enough, or could be cohesive enough, to allow for such actions.
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Old 10th Feb 2008, 11:01 PM   #64
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Errrmmm... back on topic, what do people think of the general potential for a "mappers strike" and its general feasibility? I've seen some people on here say that they would in fact cook other people's maps themselves if it came to that because they think such a strike would be childish, I disagree, but I'm just wondering if, even potential for success aside, if the mapping community is cohesive enough, or could be cohesive enough, to allow for such actions.
To be quite frank, i like the idea of just going back to modding for 2K4 better, it gets the point across quite nicely, but is less petty, and actually will make alot of people happy, since so many still play it, if nothing else then offline.
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Old 10th Feb 2008, 11:12 PM   #65
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To be quite frank, i like the idea of just going back to modding for 2K4 better, it gets the point across quite nicely, but is less petty, and actually will make alot of people happy, since so many still play it, if nothing else then offline.
That does seem like a good idea, my only problem with it is that I'd worry people would be more reluctant to do it, since it means working with older (even if more polished) technology.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 12:07 AM   #66
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Ah, Infiltration, I wondered when it was that I made an account here.

Phopojijo, your thought process is quite flawed in this case. Not knowing my thoughts does not give you a license to make strawman arguments. And I can't believe you've personalized this to the point of looking up every post I've made here.

You can't simply take my word that I'm disappointed in the product? Does everyone have to sit down and tell you their life story before you can be satisfied that they have the right to their opinion? Ok, you don't like that I don't agree with you, why do you need to demand all my reasons? Why do you need to make things up when you don't have them?

This thread is not about what Sammael doesn't like about UT3, nor do I feel the need to expound upon that subject in EVERY thread of EVERY forum. That is off-topic, I came here for discussions in a different direction.

2) Point taken.

3) So I make a couple references to a game, and that means that I "keep spouting off" about it. Please. If you read the posts, I am saying that I hope modding continues for that game. If it's not evident from the posts, the reason that I think that is because I am disappointed in UT3, that I feel my time is better spent playing an older game. It was more a statement on UT3. Not to mention that I wanted to say that I think it would be a more effective "boycott," however effective something like that could be.

Keep in mind, by the same token that I didn't explicitly state what I didn't like about UT3, I also did not say what I did like about UT2K4, so stop making assumptions about that, too. If you really want to know, maybe I'll post it in an appropriate thread. But if you're jerking me around, I won't bother, as I've posted about my feelings in many other places, and I'm tired of typing out the same complaints.

And for the record, I thought removing dodge-jump was one of the better decisions in UT3.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 12:07 AM   #67
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I just want to say that Skyhook and all future planned mods will be UT3... I disagree 100% with this Boycott and I find its basis nitpicky at best.

Yes the UI is somewhat slapped together and designed for consoles -- okay... that's what happens with a cross-platform release from a small company that has a lot of things going on at the same time. It doesn't crash like Battlefield's menu. It's not uWindows, it's not Valve, it's not UnrealEngine2 menu... but it works and it's stable.

I'd definitely prefer UT3's menu to Battlefield 2's. Sure -- BF2 allowed for more tweaking... but tweaking didn't mean much when you craaaaaash to desktop.

Edit: Sammael -- You're allowed to your opinions... however if you voice them in a venue with a specific motive (such as this thread -- whether or not to Boycott Cooking mods for the PS3) then you will need to back up your arguments. If you said "I don't like UT3" generally -- that's fine. You can like and dislike whatever you wish... but you didn't... you said that I was supporting "low quality products".

... You had specific goals to achieve -- and yet you gave no reason, ever, to your specific issues that brought about your beef.

It's hard to do anything but assume without being given prior knowledge.

So you can see where I come from here. Dislike the game all you want -- just don't complain that someone cannot understand what is such a gosh-dang big deal about UI, or whatever your complaint is (which I still don't know by the way )

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Old 11th Feb 2008, 12:39 AM   #68
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Yeah go back to that old material editor which loves to cause infinite loops or a mess of code from what seems like 10 different games all written by strung out coders on various levels of caffine withdrawals.

If you are gonna start on the technology pro's and con's of each you should really be objective.

I see UT3's codebase as much more polished, its better commented and adheres to a standard which is very consistant right the way through. Theres better editors for particles, materials and theres thumbnails for alot of the assets in the browser. Sure I dont really like the UI editor but theres alot more Im not listing.

What 2k4 does have is establishment, its got a well built in community who knows how mods work not to mention its easier for people to run them. Its easier to adjust the UI even if the editor is lacking a UI editor, it can be done in the game and copied out to code. You certainly wont have people asking for PS3 ports with this one but you are limited (as far as I know) to a dx8.1 interface, where UT3 has dx9.0c support with the possibility for it to support dx10/10.1.

UT3 has better adjustment for static mesh lodding vs 2k4 which uses a more fixed system but it allows for zone portals to be setup to cull meshes which are the correct amount of zones away. UT3 also has an upgraded animation system with better support for blending and tweening, especially in respect to characters foot placement. 2k4 doesnt allow for ragdolls to be sent over the network but the vehicle collision is very similar between the two engines.

2k4 maps perhaps compile quicker depending on what you are doing but you dont have the access to the newer lighting, there are ways to get 2k4 to look better but to really extend it you need access to native code. The particle system specifically emitters in 2k4 are rather good but it seems the upgrades in UT3 work well to take load off the cpu.

All in all both engines are feature packed though and it could depend more on what your target audience is, like I said earlier a big thing UT2k4 has going for it is establishment. Theres alot of mods for 2k4 and Im sure that'll continue, just as new mods are being released for UT, there has also been some unofficial support on that end of thing so you could be looking to see what epic does with the 2k3/4 source.

Honestly if I was to leave UT3 modding behind it wouldnt be to go backwards, I might still mod for UT2004 still but if I had to chose a complete alternative Id probably have to say I would use the QW:ET engine. Those mod tools have been released and the game patched to v1.4, this would be more of a step to the side rather than a step backwards.

It depends on how you see it though, ofcoarse its not just all about graphics! I could go into more depth for the code features which relates to gameplay but it isnt really all that impressive at face value (you really have to get in there yourself). I will say though that there are some really good advancements in the engine which will allow people to take things further than they could with UT2k4, especially when not bound to the limitations of the console. Please realise that UT2k3 was originally developed as UC with 2k4 being reworked or something to the like to become UC2 so through out each iteration, console or PC, there are advancements to the engine which relate to both gameplay and graphics.

UC2's UI was infact better than UT3's, but hey thats only a console game right its impossible to make a decent UI on those lucky Epic had access to the engine on that one and it does make you wonder where all that went. If it was funnelled into UT3 or perhaps dropped in favour of reworking the UI in its entirety.

Last edited by MonsOlympus; 11th Feb 2008 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:00 AM   #69
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Perfect post. I'm going agree with something here. UT03 was originally developed as UC1 but got split when epic stepped in more. Meaning UT0X was originally developed as a console game period. Stop all the freaking hate and stop acting like a neglected child. You made the choice of getting UT III didn't you? Give the game a chance to get itself established. Boycotting PS3 mod cooking is just going to make that process take longer.

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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:07 AM   #70
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Give the game a chance to get itself established.
Been there, done that. Failed.

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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:11 AM   #71
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Failed? Why Failed?
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:18 AM   #72
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Failed? Why Failed?
Have you looked at the server browser lately? I've never seen a game so dead, ever. I had a much easier time finding populated servers in Warsow, and that's a freaking independent niche game. Time wouldn't save UT3, drastic changes (drastic measures) or a miracle *might*.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:28 AM   #73
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Have you looked at the server browser lately? I've never seen a game so dead, ever. I had a much easier time finding populated servers in Warsow, and that's a freaking independent niche game. Time wouldn't save UT3, drastic changes (drastic measures) or a miracle would.
Drastic changes and or measures might kill it too. Its bad enough UT III came out early but it also came out during a transition of what people want in games is changing drastically and also into one of the most crowded genre's in gaming period. Personally I'm not surprised about the server count nor do I really care about playing online in general. I got UT III for maps and mods and maybe playing locally with a few pals but mostly because I'm a fan for what the game is worth. A drastic change might damage how I feel about the game. Besides. It could be far far worse at the moment and you never know what time might do for anything.

UT III is going to go through a slow transition period in my opinion. I can confidently say it likely happened to UT03 when it was first released as well. Its too early to tell right now the future of UT III might be but I'm not going to side on this boycott because in my mind it clearly damages UT III Vs trying to prove a point to me. Like some other users said. If you or others wont do it then someone else will. In time UT III may stand the test of time compared to other games that are only popular due to trend.

Also to really get at this. Why do you need to get out of shape that Epic is showing adamant support for one platform when you know they have already stated they weren't going to leave the primary platform behind. I'm sorry but this sounds like you are jealous that an other platform is getting attention. So be it if it is. Epic is a business and they are out to get profit and if it means they have to expand to an other platform to get that profit then they can go on right ahead and do it. I feel confident that Epic will support PC platform and the fact they talk about PS3 so much is to show those users they are serious about their intentions on expansion. Epic is not treating this community as an asset to make things for PS3 they are saying they are reaching to bring the content to those users in addition to PC users who already enjoy it. They are saying they are willing to give another platform a shot at the content and go to reach for a third with Xbox 360 if they get cert permission. and for the state of PC platform. PS3 and PC platform states are equal here. There is nothing on PC that PS3 doesn't have and vice versa with the exception of the editor itself and mod cooker which PC has making it the dominate platform of choice still.

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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:52 AM   #74
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hmmz, well then if any servers in ut2k4 had ever had my favourite mods on this whole server browser comeback we've become so accustomed to might have some bearing. As it stands it has sweet **** all to do with my ability and will to mod an engine to make what I want to play.

Thats what brought me to modding in the first place is to do what I wanted to see in a game or expand on what was provided. Since Epic has been so nice to us with UT over all these years in providing bots I'll never be short of a match to play, custom content or not!

Hell you know what, I dont even use the server tab, I use the favourites and with the strategically placed add favourite button on the server page Ive got a nice collection of 3 major server providers who each have around 1 server per gametype. Not to mention there is always 1 match going night or day! Maybe if CTF and vCTF were mixed back in CTF wouldnt require its own server and custom vote muts wont count to pure stats, but hey I wasnt for that one!

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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:55 AM   #75
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Let me be overly blunt about my opinion on this. Boycotting PS3 cooking is dumb.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 02:31 AM   #76
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UT3 is getting fixed, we just have to wait. Epic still has a lot of support for the PC, they just released way too early to begin with. But it is getting better.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 07:29 AM   #77
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Hi, i was pointed to this thread from another UT forum and i was surprised by the level of disatisfaction amongst modders for UT3 . My own personal view is that people should cook for PS3, the PS3 users are not responsible for the state of this game on PC. EPIC are.

I've shelved my work on my own new map 'DM-Bored' some weeks ago as i have little love left for the game beyond the odd game here and there. The ever dwindling numbers and apparent sentiment among modders in these forums will soon put paid to new content for PC & PS3 alike

PS - I am still blindly hoping that this game gets fixed/improves and suddenly starts to appeal to me again like 2K4 did, then i will fire up UED again.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 07:48 AM   #78
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This will accomplish nothing! Besides making a few people in Epic sad who worked hard on this game. I really do not like this game but that is my personal opinion. But that does not mean I will stop mapping for it and than not cook for the ps3. That is just lame. I do not map for Epic or this game, I map because I love it, and I do not mind doing it for free… because it is a great joy working on this engine in the first place I love mapping and creating. A better statement can be done, and that is to make great content with the heart! That will gain more respect than going against the so called system.

You do not see the top level designers doing something like this because doing this is only creating an illusion that you all have power. Which none of you do and that is the true reality.

And yes content is slower this time around this is because of several reasons there is one officially announced mappack that has a lot of great level designer making great content that will once released will be an awesome gift to both communities. I hope that group does not even think for a second that this would be a positive thing to do.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 08:07 AM   #79
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As I stated in another thread, the only real way to make any impact at all is to boycott creating, distributing and using custom content. Boycotting either platform means very little unless you extend that to the creation of custom content for both platforms.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 10:01 AM   #80
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Errrmmm... back on topic, what do people think of the general potential for a "mappers strike" and its general feasibility?
It's already in progress. There's a lot of people out there abandoning UT3 because it's still not finished. The larger mods this time around are just repeats of past-generation mods or just knockoffs. A lot of people who would be contributing quality content to UT3 have left in favor of other games. They don't normally come back to UT-related forums. People are continuing to leave UT3 for a variety of reasons. All you're going to get out of Epic is that they'll ignore what's going on and prop up the handful of quality content that shows up and try to say it represents the quality of the rest of the content. UT3 is dead. You can shock it as many times as you want, but that's not going to bring it back to life. Face the facts.

There's this thing called synergy that makes products and mods so much better. It's when people and companies work together to achieve a common goal. Epic half-assed UT3 and expects everyone else to do their work for the for free. One of the things that made previous UT games great was the collaboration between Epic, Digital Extremes, and other organizations including community members. That simply doesn't exist in UT3. Game over.
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