Ryan Gordon on Mac Gaming

[Zenny]

Ryan Gordon, the man responsible for the Mac and Linux ports of the Unreal series as well as many other ports, has posted a nice update on icculus.org about the state of mac gaming now that Apple has released their "Boot Camp" software that allows Windows to run on Macs.

To be clear, there isn't any great love of Windows out there, people, there's
just wants and needs that Windows happens to satisfy at the moment. I think
it's fair to say that most people that are dual-booting to Windows because of
that One Application They Can't Live Without will start finding themselves
using Mac OS X more and more, as they find acceptable alternatives and get
sick of closing everything to reboot...not to mention fighting off spyware
on the Windows Half when the Mac Half just works.

Read the rest Thanks to Israphel for the submission.

[Phopojijo]

Until the Mac Half gets popular and they start exploiting Mac's security holes just like http://www.theregister.com/2006/02/0...vulnerability/ what's been going on for the last half year.

[zynthetic]

Good points I can agree with. Dual booting winxp and fc4.
I really place the blame on hardware manu. It's thier own fault for there being little proffit (in comparrison) in developing and supporting other platforms.

[neai]

iTunes + Games = Win

[DeathBooger]

Originally Posted by neai

iTunes + Games = Win

iTunes sucks goat testicles, you can use it in Windows anyway.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by BeerGut

iTunes sucks goat testicles, you can use it in Windows anyway.

Quoted for truth.

I don't care what kind of system I use as long as it's stable. I fit in the "apps I can't live without" catagory when it comes to OSX. And unless Apple plans on reducing the price of their GROSSLY overpriced hardware I'll stick with my PC for now.

I'll keep an eye on this though.

[Sir_Brizz]

/me goes and installs MacOS on his PC.

/me then uninstalls is because nothing runs in MacOS.

[socamx]

Bunch of Windows loving zealots.

Nothing runs on Mac OS...what bull.

If you people don't know **** about something, don't say ****. I'm not saying Mac's are the best of everything and that Windows sucks, I'm just saying you guys are ignorant.

Ryan Gordon is right about the stuff he said and makes perfect sense.

Edit: I also don't see why BU bothers posting Mac news when all it gets is ridiculed and made fun of. People don't make intelligent posts on Mac news here so don't bother, just gums up a forum.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by socamx

Bunch of Windows loving zealots.

Nothing runs on Mac OS...what bull.

If you people don't know **** about something, don't say ****. I'm not saying Mac's are the best of everything and that Windows sucks, I'm just saying you guys are ignorant.

Ryan Gordon is right about the stuff he said and makes perfect sense.

Edit: I also don't see why BU bothers posting Mac news when all it gets is ridiculed and made fun of. People don't make intelligent posts on Mac news here so don't bother, just gums up a forum.

I believe Sir_Brizz was refering to the fact that windows programs do not run on OSX without an imulator. Not that there are not any programs in general that work on a Mac.

And nobody was bashing Macs.


So...

The fact that you regestered to post drivel and wave you Mac Fanboy flag earns you the "Moron of the Year" award.
Please come in to claim your cookie.

[DeathBooger]

Originally Posted by socamx

Bunch of Windows loving zealots.

Nothing runs on Mac OS...what bull.

If you people don't know **** about something, don't say ****. I'm not saying Mac's are the best of everything and that Windows sucks, I'm just saying you guys are ignorant.

Ryan Gordon is right about the stuff he said and makes perfect sense.

Edit: I also don't see why BU bothers posting Mac news when all it gets is ridiculed and made fun of. People don't make intelligent posts on Mac news here so don't bother, just gums up a forum.

iMac iSucks iBig iDonkey iBalls. It's only good for web design, due the unrestricted document windows, period.

[T2A`]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7...?tag=cnetfd.sd

Windows runs Mac hardware better than OSX runs Mac hardware. Macs with OSX, famous for their use in Photoshop and video editing, are apparently slower in their "big" programs than Windows on the same hardware.

I don't necessarily <3 Windows or MS, but I definitely do not like Apple whatsoever. iPods and iTunes can go eat muh balls.

[DeathBooger]

I hate M$ more than Apple, but at least I'm not in denial about how wonderous my PC is.

[ImaCarrot]

The only thing I'll say a Mac is better than a PC for is Graphic Design work, it just handles those programs better and the monitors that come with Macs are really good. Though with the programs I use, I've noticed that the ones that have been ported over to Mac are generally more unstable. Example, Maya on the Mac is horrible, it would crash on me at the most rediculous times. Also, the default mouse that came with my Mac only had one button, how the hell are you supposed to use Maya with only one button?!?! Easy fix, but still an annoyance.

I agree with Sirius that Macs are way too expensive for what they are. I also remember hearing someone say once that if you want to upgrade your Mac, just buy a new one.

Carrot

[BlackDragon323]

I swear, whenever I read something on Ryan he just continues to make himself an even more pompous ass. He really irritates me trying to hide his mac/linux elitism in what he says.

I'm not even going to get started on the whole mac vs pc thing. Let's face it: games will always be designed with the PC in mind FIRST and foremost, anything for mac will always be a port over.

[JaFO]

Originally Posted by socamx

Bunch of Windows loving zealots.

Nothing runs on Mac OS...what bull.

....

Of course it's bull.
It should be : Nothing worth using runs on Mac OS.

Seriously ... why would anyone use Windows, when they've already wasted money on an Apple ?

I'd switch as soon as Apple delivers something like Delphi.
Until such time I've got zero reasons to switch, because the few games that don't run on consoles still require a pc ...

[Israphel]

Originally Posted by Turns2Ashes

Windows runs Mac hardware better than OSX runs Mac hardware. Macs with OSX, famous for their use in Photoshop and video editing, are apparently slower in their "big" programs than Windows on the same hardware.

Well, I do a lot of photography and use photoshop a lot, and can say from my experience that's not even close to the truth. My Mac handles it a lot faster than any Windows machine I've ever used. My girlfriend is an architect and switched to Mac because AutoCAD was so slow, every architecture atelier will use Macs precisely because they are faster with "big" graphics moving programs like ArchiCAD, Vectorworks and Photoshop.

When I submitted this to BU last night I did it mainly because of the mention of Unreal, and because I found the concept of itunes being used as a means to download games intriguing. They surely can't make a worse job of it than Steam can they?

But it's a pity that an article that is basically about people being able to choose the best of both OS worlds provokes so much anti-mac comment.
If you don't like them, don't buy them. It always seems to me that the need to tell people how much you hate something at any opportunity smacks of reverse snobbishness.

I don't have any real issues with Microsoft or Windows, I just prefer OSX...it feels nicer to me. But that's just me, and what feels nice is always going to be totally subjective.
But what would I know, I've only being using Windows AND Mac OS daily for the last 8 or 9 years.....

As for being over-priced...well it depends. Comparing a Macbook Pro with a top of the range Windows laptop (like a Sony Vaio SZ) and the prices are almost identical. The specs are similar, but the Mac will run OSX and Windows.

EDIT: I've had a look at that link T2A, and the problem with Photoshop was that it wasn't a Universal program, and therefore had to run Rosetta...which slowed it down. Universal are the programs that are designed to run on the new Intel Macs, and so far Adobe haven't released a Universal version of Photoshop.
The test in that link was on a version of Photoshop not designed to run on Intel Macs, so the Mac had to run it's conversion software, Rosetta..hence the slowness.

This was always going to be a problem because when apple switched to the Intel cores they already had all there own software ready to run on them, but not all the software companies had managed to keep up. There will be a Universal Photoshop soon though, and as the guy in the article said, then they'll be able to give it a proper comparison.

[ImaCarrot]

I'm not anti-mac or anything, I just personally don't care for the OS. And in my own experience, Maya ran like crap on a pretty new G5 and ran fine on my new Sony vaio laptop, this was about the time Maya 7 came out. The vaio cost me much less than the G5 as well.

I acknowledged that Macs are good for Graphic Design work, Photoshop counts under that umbrella as far as I'm concerned. AutoCAD as well is mostly a design tool.

So my reasons for not liking Mac is mostly because of the OS that I don't prefer (which the new dual boot kind of fixes.) and the poor upgrade options.

Israphel, of course you are going to invoke anti-mac comments on a site where I would wager that at least 90% of the visitors use PC's, most likely for gaming. It's pretty much the same as going to a playstation forum and posting that the gamecube has better graphics.

Mac does have that line of software geared more towards amatuers that is actually pretty good, like iMovie. Macs seem to be going more towards being user friendly than PCs care to go, I would bet that someone who has never used a computer would prefer a Mac.

Carrot

[Israphel]

Fair comments mate, it's horses for courses and people use what they get on with best. All our experience is anecdotal and we'll therefore use what we've found that we like the most.

But I don't agree with your comparison about going on a playstation forum and dissing the graphics.
No one here is criticising Windows or saying that it isn't any good. Ryan Gordon (who is a Linux guy, not a Mac fanboy) was just saying what he thinks will be the result of Mac users being able to use Windows.
He states that it won't have any significant effect on Mac sales, although a few people who maybe wouldn't buy Macs before, may now be tempted. I would say that that's true really. Certainly I know a couple of people who might get a Mac when they buy their next computer....But I know a lot more who won't.

I'm not sure how his comments could have caused Windows users such offence.

[socamx]

Smell the ignorance. I've got nothing more to say to you closed minded people. Act like friggen children if you wish and play out the ignorance forever.

Have fun, just fall into the mold and join the bandwagon.

Maybe you should save the anti-Mac comments and comment on what Ryan Gordon was actually saying, which all makes perfect sense. Definitely one of the smartest and well thought out things I've read so far with the whole Boot Camp and Mac gaming deal.

Who am I to argue against a flood of anti-Mac ignorant pricks who don't even care about what the news post had to do with?

Seriously, BU should just stop saying anything about Apple/Macs and Mac gaming because it isn't going to get serious thought around here. Not even Unreal related.

[ImaCarrot]

the Playstation comparison was all I could think of, I agree it was a poor one. All I was trying to say is that a community comprised primarily of PC users such as this one is bound to have some biased comments about an article that appears to have come from a Mac-fanboy. Just by reading the snippet on the BU front page and not the whole article, that is exactly what looks to be the case.

Ryan made some interesting points, and I'm guessing that the only reason the article started a flame war was because of the way it appeared to be an article about how Macs are going to be the better computer soon, which is what could be ascertained from that one paragraph. Most people probably didn't bother reading the article, it is a long and boring looking article, and according to Ryan "Aren't Mac users supposed to be smarter...". Us Windows users probably got bored before the page loaded up on our possibly still dial-up modem and went somewhere else.

Socamx, little touchy there aren't ya buddy? I could be wrong, but I thought Unreal was on the Mac, which Ryan hinted at in his article a couple times. So this does have at least a little signifigance to the Unreal community. Joining the community just to defend the Mac and call everyone ignorant in an insulting manner probably wasn't the best way to get your point across.

Carrot