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Old 20th Jul 2005, 05:13 AM   #1
Wowbagger
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EPIC detached from the Unreal community?

I cant help notice the complete absence of Epic people on the forums (even their own)
It didnt use to be like this.

Fansite Friday Look at Anet (Guild Wars) they have had a Fansite Friday for almost a year now.
Fansites all over the world can ask questions and get them answered, EVERY Friday. This puts focus on even the smallest fansite if even for a short time.
See FF#51 Here as an example.


Guild/Clan of the week As if that isnt enough they have a Guild of the week where they present a specific Guild (Clans for us)

Weekly Wallpaper: And they have a Wednesday Wallpaper where they mostly use some of their concept art to make a WP in all the proper sizes.

Now i dont ask for Epic to do all this for us Unreal fans but it does make you wonder why Epic that is so big now cant have a Community Relations Manager like Gaile from Anet.

Epic, see this as a hand stretched out from the community, come on in and join the party
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 05:46 AM   #2
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Fair point, other fair point is:

They're Busy Working.

PR people should really be getting involved in such things but UT is the least of Epic's plans at the moment, they're off making (probable) fortunes selling UE3 to xbox360/sony ps3 devs.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 05:55 AM   #3
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Well they have always been busy working havent they?
And im sure Anet has been busy working too and STILL had time to keep the fans WELL informed.

I get the feeling like you say that Epic is more interested in selling the engine.
Just look at their website, http://www.epicgames.com/index_2k4.html
Its all about the new licenses.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 05:56 AM   #4
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It's a touchy subject that is totally different in this genre of gaming. Since they don't make constant updates to a world, there is a lot more "stress" on how each game release is precieved and handled.

They don't seem to like to say a whole lot, or be to forth coming in certain aspects of their community feedback, because as with any "art form" they want their work to be somewhat left up to interpretation. Take the "camping" issue for example, the idea of setting yourself up in some elevated area where you can hide and pick people off without them knowing where you are etc... The concept is mostly accepted as "not something very Unreal™," yet, it's not something Epic will come right out and say, because of how that will reflect to some of their fan base.

It's a crude, and quick example, but basically, the moral is, things are different in the FPS world. Devs have to be more open ears, and let their work speak for them, because people tend to mis-interpret words much easier then they do changes in a patch, or sequel.

Said kind of feedback would be nice, but I've seen how this community handles it before, and am at total peace with why it doesn't happen anymore.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 06:25 AM   #5
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I'll say what I said on the Epic boards.

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Yeah, I mean **** it's not like they're working on two ****ing games at the same time or anything. Wowbagger you haven't changed. You're still an *******.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 07:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -AEnubis-
It's a touchy subject that is totally different in this genre of gaming. Since they don't make constant updates to a world, there is a lot more "stress" on how each game release is precieved and handled.

They don't seem to like to say a whole lot, or be to forth coming in certain aspects of their community feedback, because as with any "art form" they want their work to be somewhat left up to interpretation. Take the "camping" issue for example, the idea of setting yourself up in some elevated area where you can hide and pick people off without them knowing where you are etc... The concept is mostly accepted as "not something very Unreal™," yet, it's not something Epic will come right out and say, because of how that will reflect to some of their fan base.

It's a crude, and quick example, but basically, the moral is, things are different in the FPS world. Devs have to be more open ears, and let their work speak for them, because people tend to mis-interpret words much easier then they do changes in a patch, or sequel.

Said kind of feedback would be nice, but I've seen how this community handles it before, and am at total peace with why it doesn't happen anymore.
Yea that is true and this community HAS gone more "cold" over the years so i could understand why they dont interact so much with the community.
I do think its wrong to "give up" all together tho.
They do have a PR guy (is it still Mark Rein?) but i dont see him do much (or hes more towards the Licensees).

I honestly think an more open and positive atmosphere between the fans and the devs benefits the final product.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 07:36 AM   #7
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the best games in the world will be made without hype and without a yelling complaining community(take that in take this in, damn this is a must, **** no take that out of teh friggin' game)
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 09:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuLuNGuS
the best games in the world will be made without hype and without a yelling complaining community(take that in take this in, damn this is a must, **** no take that out of teh friggin' game)
Sure, some of the whining is unbearable but a PR dude (or whatever) should be able to stand above the worst of it.
And sometimes when many complain it could be worth rethinking.

Looking at the two games im playing the most atm, BF2 and Guild Wars, theyre both great games but so different when it comes to feedback.

In BF2 the Demo had a, what can i say, unbelievable crappy, useless Server Browser (no Favorites, freezing, 90% of the servers showing 0 or 999ping etc)
There was ALOT of whining
Then comes the retail with the EXACT same browser.

If you want to change your nick you have to make a new account with a different Email at gamespy. (alot of people like me probably thought this was for the Demo only)
Lets say this guy works his Medic character up to 25000 points or whatever and unlocks all the good weapons for the Medic. (ALOT of work)
And then a Clan wants him to join and to be able to wear the clantag he needs to make a new account under a new email LOSING all the points forcing him to start all over again.
It sounds like a joke but it isnt.

My point is that with a closer relationship between the Devs and the players this could have been prevented.

In Guild Wars the launch was flawless.
No big show stoppers, alot of quick small fixes tho.
I think it has had 2 downtimes with 10 minutes each since launch.
I think its the least troublesome game ive played.

Funny thing is that both are great fun to play
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 10:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edhe
Fair point, other fair point is:

They're Busy Working.

PR people should really be getting involved in such things but UT is the least of Epic's plans at the moment, they're off making (probable) fortunes selling UE3 to xbox360/sony ps3 devs.

In addition I want to believe that those who are not working hard must be on vacation at this time of the year...
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 11:12 AM   #10
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1. They're busy doing their work.
2. The game is big. It's not like they can spare some time with their "fans" because the game is a niche game. Instead, they probably already get tons of emails from people, ranging from the people that say "OMG X SUCKS, DO IT LIKE Y" to the people that say "OMG X RULES, MAKE Y LIKE IT NOW".

In the end, I guess no developers would say it that way, but the community of AAA FPS titles sucks. All of them. It's too much effort for too little reward. Of course, there's the people who are worth a talk, people who can help, but let's face it, most of a game community is a bunch of smacktards who think they're know what's right and they just expect the developer to listen to them and do exactly as they're told.

Epic wise, I'd say they read the forums as usual. They probably lurk a lot. They just don't take part in many discussions because the signal to noise ratio is too high and it's not worth it, and when they do post something, people jump on them.

And PR people are probably more busy with journalists then with people who will pay $40 for the game. Seriously, and it couldn't be any different. IMO, if they answer Q&As from the modding community once in a while, it's all good. For the rest, they know what they're doing.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 11:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimb0
1. They're busy doing their work.
2. The game is big. It's not like they can spare some time with their "fans" because the game is a niche game. Instead, they probably already get tons of emails from people, ranging from the people that say "OMG X SUCKS, DO IT LIKE Y" to the people that say "OMG X RULES, MAKE Y LIKE IT NOW".

In the end, I guess no developers would say it that way, but the community of AAA FPS titles sucks. All of them. It's too much effort for too little reward. Of course, there's the people who are worth a talk, people who can help, but let's face it, most of a game community is a bunch of smacktards who think they're know what's right and they just expect the developer to listen to them and do exactly as they're told.

Epic wise, I'd say they read the forums as usual. They probably lurk a lot. They just don't take part in many discussions because the signal to noise ratio is too high and it's not worth it, and when they do post something, people jump on them.

And PR people are probably more busy with journalists then with people who will pay $40 for the game. Seriously, and it couldn't be any different. IMO, if they answer Q&As from the modding community once in a while, it's all good. For the rest, they know what they're doing.
it makes sense, I see in the different forums that many people have different opinions and meanings concerning the game (and we re all fan). In fact we do believe that in our most honnest opinions we all have the truth (Actually we all have our own truth for ourselves indeed).
So the best way to move forward for EPIC is surely to check the forum just in case some very good ideas or points are sent there, but they should not tell anything about their choices until the work is completed at about 50-75%.
Let s face it, whatever they do, it will always be some people to say: OMG that s damn good! and some other to say: FFS, that s damn ****!
My conclusion would be: let s trust Epic, they know how to handle their business and they have now a strong experience about what is working or not to come up with a new entertaining, challenging and good UT Opus.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 01:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger
Sure, some of the whining is unbearable but a PR dude (or whatever) should be able to stand above the worst of it.
And sometimes when many complain it could be worth rethinking.

Looking at the two games im playing the most atm, BF2 and Guild Wars, theyre both great games but so different when it comes to feedback.
...
My point is that with a closer relationship between the Devs and the players this could have been prevented.
...
(1) BF2 was released by EA (money first, shareholders second, customers *eh* we've got their money why don't they shut up)

(2) you didn't need community-feedback to detect those gigantic design-problems ... just a little look at what Gamespy itself had been offering.
I'd even would bet that the in-game browser was crippled as a result of their allegiance to Gamespy ... (ie : again money from Gamespy was more important than players)

(3)
Guildwars is a MMO such things require daily support just to be worth playing.
UT2k7 only needs some support at release (to cover bugs and major security issues). Anything else isn't even profitable for Epic except as a little karma for their next release in a few years time.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 01:42 PM   #13
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Exclamation Dung beetles IF THEY'RE LUCKY.

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Anything else isn't even profitable for Epic except as a little karma for their next release in a few years time.
The way Epic's karma still stands after UT2003, they're coming back as dung beetles in their next lives
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 04:33 PM   #14
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From the posts I've seen, Gaile appears to come off as being very full of herself. But hey, I can't blame her, if I was a CRM I'd probably shove it in people's faces too

What I think you can agree on is that Epic doesn't neglict it's community. They do however in some ways thrive off it though... Look at the people they hired and massive support they pulled through with the MSUC.

I was going to write a huge paragraph comparing GW to UT, but in short GW has a much more larger, participating community than UT. While it would be nice to have more output from Epic, do you not think we get enough as it is? It's certainly a lot more than most game companies do.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 06:44 PM   #15
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Yea i agree 100%
Like i said ive played BF2 now for a while and if you compare Dice/EA to Epic, Epic comes out as a CLEAR winner.
But looking at Dice/EA is also why i made this thread to begin with.
Somewhere they lost the touch with the ones actually playing their game and i would hate to see that happen to Epic too.
As an example weve gotten less Bonuspacks for every game thats been released and thats something weve always praised and thanked Epic for.
Epic cant take the customers for granted with games like BF2 and QuakeWars out there.

MSUC is great but maybe more for marketing and the gaming industry than us that bought the game.
Most of the (very impressive) mods out there still make the CTF servers seem crowded

Edit: Yea maybe she (Gaile) is but you cant argue that shes done an amazing job with the community.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 07:08 PM   #16
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When talking about UT2004... you have to remember that the publisher requires patches and additional material to be tested before release. Given that Atari and Epic are no longer working together, I think you can figure out why there isn't a lot coming from Epic about that game.

As far as UT2007... I don't know of many developers who spend lots of time in forums talking about what they are doing with the game. I can assure you that they READ them. Besides... Epic hasn't even put together a UT2007 forum yet.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 07:30 PM   #17
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True it has been a bit special with the move to Midway etc.

Still, BU for an example is by far the best Unreal site out there but it could be so much more.
But it cant happen if Epic isnt interested. (isnt it a bit frustrating? )

Oh well,
This is Wow, Unreal Fanboy in disguise, signing out
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 07:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal
I can assure you that they READ them.
Yep, that's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -AEnubis-
Said kind of feedback would be nice, but I've seen how this community handles it before, and am at total peace with why it doesn't happen anymore.
Read: Epic enjoys their work and wants their customers to enjoy it too, BUT... a lot of Epic's customers can be real asshats when they want to. I've seen DrSiN get called everything but a child of God over at INA over a not very long period of time. TBH if I had to do customer service for the UT crowd, I'd probably end up ripping out my own tonsils with a shrimp fork.

That's not everybody, mind you, but sadly most times the meanest ones are also the loudest.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 09:29 PM   #19
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It would be wiser to post such a thread over at INA, cuz Epic actually has accounts there.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 11:15 PM   #20
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It would be wiser to post such a thread over at INA, cuz Epic actually has accounts there.
Oh, they read all of them.
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