Old 17th Dec 2004, 06:58 AM   #41
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.pot.optimus if you haven't played it so much, how do you know it toughes it out equally? to dodge away from attacks and such the gunner has a large advantage over the ranger as it is.

Brizz...thanks for telling what is and isn't "right", elitish prick.
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Old 17th Dec 2004, 07:19 AM   #42
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In U2XMP the ranger can jump in a very small circle around a gunner. The idea is you get 4 dodges off before a gunner gets 1. The idea being the gunner looses track of you, so you can either run or fight. Mmm looking somewhere and you always can dodge there..........

UTXMP the pistol is under powered (headshots will be deadly Plus you cant dodge like U2. The sniper riffle can be very good, but sometimes it cant register anything. Firing three shots at a stationary target sometimes does nothing

Just WALLJUMP Sunsetbeach! :P Jump too the wall jump off the wall pressing corresponding arrow too direct where to go. However my wall jump success rate went up with UTXMP, yet i sacrifice about a third loss of control compared too U2XMP.

The key too being a good ranger is being fluid. UTXMP doesn't allow that right now

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Old 17th Dec 2004, 10:02 AM   #43
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Mh actually I do find this debate a little too detailled. It is important to see the relevance of things and I see a lot of points that are more important than that especially when my feeling is that ppl moan because they havent had enough practice yet. It might be harder from a technical point of view but if there are experts they will learn to cope with it and differ from all the noobs out there. I guess you all get along pretty fine with the new dodging style ... dont you ? Who fears to be a noob ?

I dont think a conversion or port MUST BE 100% like its predecessor. It should be better of course ... so FMI might change dodging but if they do it will you moan because you have get used too the new dodging style
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Old 17th Dec 2004, 10:10 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FurociousFa
Brizz...thanks for telling what is and isn't "right", elitish prick.
Please show me where I said I was right in any of the posts I made about issues in the game.

kthxbye. "elitish prick"
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Old 17th Dec 2004, 10:36 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrataal
Mh actually I do find this debate a little too detailled. It is important to see the relevance of things and I see a lot of points that are more important than that especially when my feeling is that ppl moan because they havent had enough practice yet. It might be harder from a technical point of view but if there are experts they will learn to cope with it and differ from all the noobs out there. I guess you all get along pretty fine with the new dodging style ... dont you ? Who fears to be a noob ?

I dont think a conversion or port MUST BE 100% like its predecessor. It should be better of course ... so FMI might change dodging but if they do it will you moan because you have get used too the new dodging style
The impression I got from the time I first heard about UTXMP going to be 100% like its predecessor. Thus, why beta 1 will only help us achieve that goal.

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Old 2nd Jan 2005, 08:21 AM   #46
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This is a stupid argument, its pointless to argue over who's opinion is right. As an old skool UTer I much prefer having to land then dodge and am against being able to dodge on land in the way you describe. For me, thats just like bunnyhopping in q3, but hey that was never intended when it was first started either.

Anyway this is for FMI to decide, there are reasons on either side and your attempts at trying to prove your opinion to be right are pointless.
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Old 2nd Jan 2005, 10:43 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Please show me where I said I was right in any of the posts I made about issues in the game.

kthxbye. "elitish prick"
er well ok then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
It says I was right all along, that if you...
TBH the dodge landing thing is a pretty big booboo as far as the fluidity of playing is concerned... As well as the no jump/duck combination anymore sadly And the ranger still needs more boost And the tech
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Old 3rd Jan 2005, 10:31 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Um. Sorry, but I DO know what you're talking about. I know it's different in UTXMP than U2XMP. What you aren't understanding is that it is my opinion that it makes no difference. If U2XMP had never been written that way, you wouldn't be complaining now because you would be used to it that way.
if.....if......fact is u2xmp was written this way. and the community
that grew along got used to it and wants the gameplay and especially the movement as it was in u2xmp, cause utxmp should be a total conversation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Thus that part of the movement DOES NOT MAKE XMP XMP.
IT DOES!!!
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Old 3rd Jan 2005, 10:42 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Eat_my_shorts
TBH the dodge landing thing is a pretty big booboo as far as the fluidity of playing is concerned... As well as the no jump/duck combination anymore sadly And the ranger still needs more boost And the tech
No actually it's not.

I've seen people playing just as well as they ever did in U2XMP in UTXMP...and pretty much ZERO of them say anything about the dodging anymore. Why? Because it's something you get used to. Hence:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Thus that part of the movement DOES NOT MAKE XMP XMP.
It can't because there are too many people NOT WHINING ABOUT IT.

I agree about the jump duck, although I have made it through windows people are saying they can't make it through on Rampant (especially the front windows) by tapping jump not holding it. The jumping problem (not enough boost) I agree should be fixed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericOner
if.....if......fact is u2xmp was written this way. and the community
that grew along got used to it and wants the gameplay and especially the movement as it was in u2xmp, cause utxmp should be a total conversation!
You're right...except UTXMP is a TC of XMP NOT U2XMP. Granted they are keeping alot the same between the two (which everyone is already lucky to have), but that doesn't mean every little thing you find to whine about on a consistent basis is going to be kept the same. My point still stands, if U2XMP had never come out, or had come out in a different form, people would be whining about UTXMP not being like that, or not whining at all. If some of these people had their way, UTXMP would BE U2XMP sans innovation. Many of the people that WERE whining (since even many in this very thread have stopped giving a crap about the movement) were pretty much ignoring the good that could come from the way it is and instead finding "the problem" (as defined by them) that the game had. Many of those same people have gotten used to the movement, and don't really care at this point. Good for them I say. IMO (since some people can't get that), the game was about 1% noob friendly before. Some of the changes that have occured have, IMO, made the game more like 15% noob friendly. Anything under 25% is usually bad, although any ground we can gain over what it was in U2XMP (because you HAVE to admit, the game was pretty much not noob friendly over the past 8 months) is a GOOD THING.
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Old 3rd Jan 2005, 10:55 AM   #50
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OMG Brizz

first of all: no U2XMP = no UTXMP....................got it?

and movement is an important part of the game, so its NOT
a little thing to whine about!


edit: tell me a noob-friendly FPS-multiplayer!!!

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Old 3rd Jan 2005, 11:00 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
the game was pretty much not noob friendly over the past 8 months
the reason that the game was not 'noob-friendly' was the missing / f***ed up master server.
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Old 3rd Jan 2005, 11:33 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericOner
OMG Brizz

first of all: no U2XMP = no UTXMP....................got it?
No because XMP is a concept, not a game. And while it might be true that UTXMP's creation is based entirely upon U2XMP, that does not change the fact that the game is based on a concept which IS XMP, and that concept is not defined by the movement. I find it EXTREMELY unlikely that you could look at a design document for XMP (not U2XMP) and find that what is being whined about was even mentioned. It was the way it was because that's how it was in Unreal 2, not because that is how it was defined for XMP.
Quote:
and movement is an important part of the game, so its NOT
a little thing to whine about!
How? If the movement were ORIGINALLY different, than you would want it that way, ad nauseam. If that's true (which it has to be), then movement plays a very small role in the gameplay.
Quote:
edit: tell me a noob-friendly FPS-multiplayer!!!
noob-friendly within reason (imo, around 25%)? Okay.

Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
Call of Duty
Call of Duty: United Offensive
Unreal Tournament 2004
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament
Unreal
Quake 3
Battlefield 1942
Battlefield Vietnam
Unreal 2 (SP, not MP)

more??

I would even go so far as to say that HALO and HALO 2 are MORE noob friendly than XMP has been.

cyb: I'm talking about even BEFORE the Master Server went down, so maybe I should have said 10 months.
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Old 4th Jan 2005, 02:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
I've seen people playing just as well as they ever did in U2XMP in UTXMP...and pretty much ZERO of them say anything about the dodging anymore. Why? Because it's something you get used to. Hence:
Your clouded mind is missing the point... It's not about the playing, it's about the coding not being right... I'm not on about the feel, i'm on about the f00k up when you land - you don't land you float and stick. Oh noes you'll have to go into 3rd person (which we all know you think is the most horrendous act of cheating ever) to see it...

The main point here is you (Brizz) predominantly play UT2004, the rest of the people are regular players of U2XMP (among other things), and you are trying to argue against them why? XMP is a game - if it was included in UT2005/6 on the pull down menu along with iCTF and such, then I for one would accept it as concept.

Furthermore, why is the only way you back up your ideas/suggestions/opinions with more of your own ideas/suggestions/opinions or by repeating yourself. What does this achieve bar increasing you post count?
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Old 4th Jan 2005, 03:13 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat_my_shorts
Your clouded mind is missing the point... It's not about the playing, it's about the coding not being right... I'm not on about the feel, i'm on about the f00k up when you land - you don't land you float and stick. Oh noes you'll have to go into 3rd person (which we all know you think is the most horrendous act of cheating ever) to see it...
I've already admitted that THIS is a bug and should be fixed several times. Perhaps your clouded mind is missing MY point. This thread was started BEFORE that bug ever surfaced. It was started because you can't hop->dodge->hop->dodge and fly across the map 10 times faster than you can run across it. I DON'T THINK THAT IS A PROBLEM. The landing bug is different from not being able to do this.
Quote:
The main point here is you (Brizz) predominantly play UT2004, the rest of the people are regular players of U2XMP (among other things), and you are trying to argue against them why? XMP is a game - if it was included in UT2005/6 on the pull down menu along with iCTF and such, then I for one would accept it as concept.
You don't know what I predominantly play. And additionally, (here will be a hard one for you to understand) IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I PREDOMINANTLY PLAY. Maybe you played Diablo 2 for four years before you played XMP, does that mean that your input was pretty much scrapyard garbage and should have been completely ignored? NO. Games are tuned to THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY THEM, not to the people who think they are the ones who know everything there is to know about the game. How successful do you think ANY game would be that didn't listen to some portion of the community whether they "predominantly" played some other game or not? The goal is to get people to PLAY YOUR GAME not to have the same quality and size of community you had before. If that was the goal, you would see every game remade identically to itself with updated graphics all the time...and guess what. You don't.

People like you need to get off your high horse and realize that UTXMP is an attempt to get a COMMUNITY for XMP (the concept, not the game). FMI is not going to accomplish that goal if they discount people's opinions because they "predominantly" play some other game. Every sinlg eone of my points has pretty much nothing to do with UT2004 except for the playerbase. THIS IS A MOD FOR UT2004! It is going to attract UT2004 players. It won't be hard for them to leave the game if the only people who gave input, were listened to, and play the game are people who think they are the only ones who know XMP.

Also, XMP is a concept. Every game is a concept. Waterworld (the movie) is a concept. What you see is an IMPLEMENTATION of a concept. LORD OF THE FREAKING RINGS IS A CONCEPT. Any of those things could have been made differently, and changed the whole outcome of their quality JUST BASED ON THE CONCEPT. Waterworld could have been a ten time emmy winner, and lord of the rings could have been a flop. XMP could have failed even more miserably than it did. UTXMP is more of a RESURRECTION than a port. As I have said many times, it may end up being UT2003-UT2004, but it could have been TF->TFC AND STILL BEEN XMP.
Quote:
Furthermore, why is the only way you back up your ideas/suggestions/opinions with more of your own ideas/suggestions/opinions or by repeating yourself. What does this achieve bar increasing you post count?
Maybe because I have repeated myself a thousand times, and you and several others recycle each other's points just as much as I recycle my own.

Perhaps it's because the people reading my posts seem to have ZERO reading comprehension skills (or they just don't want to use them). How about instead of looking back and reading just my posts you go back and read ALL of the replies and realize that I got attacked on the same issues repeatedly. How else can you defend yourself against that than by repeating yourself? My points are pretty clear to me. Other people are able to understand them. Why can't the same five people that keep replying to my posts figure it out?
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Old 4th Jan 2005, 03:40 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Also, XMP is a concept. Every game is a concept. Waterworld (the movie) is a concept. What you see is an IMPLEMENTATION of a concept. LORD OF THE FREAKING RINGS IS A CONCEPT. Any of those things could have been made differently, and changed the whole outcome of their quality JUST BASED ON THE CONCEPT. Waterworld could have been a ten time emmy winner, and lord of the rings could have been a flop. XMP could have failed even more miserably than it did. UTXMP is more of a RESURRECTION than a port. As I have said many times, it may end up being UT2003-UT2004, but it could have been TF->TFC AND STILL BEEN XMP.
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Old 4th Jan 2005, 04:27 PM   #56
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Indeed...
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Old 4th Jan 2005, 04:36 PM   #57
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A concept is akin to an idea... Games are akin to themselves...

You support yourself by bringing in balanced aguments and quoting references / sources that support your idea. Not through repetition. You do that in a dissertation and you fail. You do that in court and you get laughed at by the judge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
People like you need to get off your high horse and realize that UTXMP is an attempt to get a COMMUNITY for XMP (the concept, not the game).
ROFLMAO *cough* hypocrite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Perhaps it's because the people reading my posts seem to have ZERO reading comprehension skills (or they just don't want to use them). How about instead of looking back and reading just my posts you go back and read ALL of the replies and realize that I got attacked on the same issues repeatedly. How else can you defend yourself against that than by repeating yourself? My points are pretty clear to me. Other people are able to understand them. Why can't the same five people that keep replying to my posts figure it out?
Get over yourself m8

Anyhoo time to call it quits. I for one am just gonna wait until the end of the whole process to play it anymore. GL HF
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Old 12th Jan 2005, 12:46 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by iddQd
Well in ut2003 you didnt perform the boostjump exacly the same but it works the same way, in ut2003 you find a wall and you do this: left, jump, left, jump (if the wall is to the right) really fast and you'll perform a extra big jump, this was removed in ut2004 but somehow followed to the u2 engine.
Sorry to interrupt your conversation, but U2XMP is completely torn apart from U2 Engine. U2 used... eh... v829 out of the box, and U2XMP was built from the scratch with just importing some elements like, particle system and assets and it used v2226. So, I suppose that's because at that point 2 games took two different roads. UT kept evolutioning and U2XMP stayed at his 2226. Just FYI.
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Old 12th Jan 2005, 12:47 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Eat_my_shorts
A concept is akin to an idea... Games are akin to themselves...
Ummm...games are made out of ideas...
Quote:
You support yourself by bringing in balanced aguments and quoting references / sources that support your idea. Not through repetition. You do that in a dissertation and you fail. You do that in court and you get laughed at by the judge.
Good thing I'm not in court or giving a dissertation. I'm talking to a group of people about a subject on which there are no references or sources. Somebody wrote the books. Did they have to give references and sources to support what they discovered?
Quote:
ROFLMAO *cough* hypocrite
Last time I checked it was these people that started railing on me and not vice versa. I might have been "tearing apart" their ideas, but I was never initially attacking them personally.
Quote:
Get over yourself m8
Get over what? The fact that the so-called "pro" community for XMP disagrees with me and then the only argument they have is "Why do you keep repeating yourself when we ask the same questions and make the same accusation repeatedly?" "Why do you want UTXMP to be different than U2XMP? If you ever played U2XMP you would know it should be identical! Did you ever even PLAY U2XMP?" My posts are a direct result of the people I am catering to. If they can't figure out what I'm saying after I repeat myself several times...well that's their own issue.
Quote:
Anyhoo time to call it quits. I for one am just gonna wait until the end of the whole process to play it anymore. GL HF
So you joined the "Screw FMI I'm not playing UTXMP ever again until the Gold is released...and if it's not identical to U2XMP I'm never going to play it again" bandwagon? Personally, I would have thought you of all people would have been above that.
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Old 12th Jan 2005, 02:03 PM   #60
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That was like soooooooo posted last week... *speak to the hand* lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Last time I checked it was these people that started railing on me and not vice versa
er yeah... hmmm... :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Brizz
Quote:
Anyhoo time to call it quits. I for one am just gonna wait until the end of the whole process to play it anymore. GL HF
So you joined the "Screw FMI I'm not playing UTXMP ever again until the Gold is released...and if it's not identical to U2XMP I'm never going to play it again" bandwagon? Personally, I would have thought you of all people would have been above that.
"play it" being the arguing game... nvm

Anyhoo WHO CARES Chill and enjoy life and enjoy the game Coloured names has made me happy for the moment
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