Should INF scopes be easier to use?

[Derelan]

Some people say that the scopes are fine just as they are.
Some say that to make the scopes any easier to use (reduce bobbing, faster stabilization) would make them whore weapons!
Some say that iron sights are even easier to use than scopes, contrast to real life!
What would you say?

[=D.C.L.I=Snipez]

imo they are fine just as they are. The scopes really aren't that hard to use. But really, how many times do you get to use a scope in INF? In tdm, it is rarely used, on some eas maps it might be helpful but using iron sights would be fine on most eas maps. The only recent action I've seen with scopes would be on tas. You don't meet another enemy every 5 seconds on tas so just control breathing fire and wait... I see nothing wrong with the scopes

[Hurin]

First of I advise you all to look at psychomorphs idea for INF, it will hopwfully make using scopes while moving alot easier. Other then that scope bob seems about 20% higher then the realistic amount but its ok. I think more research needs to be done on this subject. AFter all in realife ironsighted weapons arent very common for any kind of operations requiring assault rifles.

[Derelan]

Originally Posted by Hurin

First of I advise you all to look at psychomorphs idea for INF, it will hopwfully make using scopes while moving alot easier. Other then that scope bob seems about 20% higher then the realistic amount but its ok. I think more research needs to be done on this subject. AFter all in realife ironsighted weapons arent very common for any kind of operations requiring assault rifles.

perhaps not more research, but more question into game balance. Wheres psychomorph's idea?

[geogob]

New version suggestions I think.

IMO scope are fine the way they are currenlty impemented. They shouldn't be easier to use that way. In a future version they might be implemented very differently so I guess that arguing on this right now isn't worth much.

[sir_edmond]

Didnt [whats his name] make a clip showing real viewbob after 20mins of holding the rifle with one hand.

From what i remember it barley moved.

[Derelan]

Originally Posted by sir_edmond

Didnt [whats his name] make a clip showing real viewbob after 20mins of holding the rifle with one hand.

From what i remember it barley moved.

But if we were to use this in INF, don't you think we would have scope whores running around, just standing in the middle of a road sniping?

Or perhaps this is the way it should be, and we should have easier scopes, forcing us to be more weary of snipers/campers.

[sir_edmond]

I like the second one.
Combat scopes are made for combat.
Whats the point of not being able to use a combat scope while in combat.
why do I have to go prone and stake out?

[yurch]

Easier is such a broad term, and I bet everyone here is using a different idea of it.

Easier could be:
1) Convenient usage (psychomorphs idea)
2) Intuitive usage (No breathing or automatic breathing controls)
3) Greater general accuracy (smaller amplitude of movement)
4) Greater snapshot accuracy (less-or-none 'misalignment')
5) Faster aquisition (less visual range limitation)
6) Faster greatest accuracy attainment (min holdBreath time)
7) Longer greatest accuracy attainment (holdBreath time maximum)
8) And of course, the opposite of each for all of the iron sight counterparts.

Until people are talking about the same things and to what degree, this hardly is a meaningful discussion.

[keihaswarrior]

From my limited experience with scoped shooting, it isn't really possible to "misalign" the scope and still see the target. The second the scope is not aligned with your eye, due to the the small focal point, the scope picture will turn partially or totally black.

I think that this is the main thing to change/improve with INF's scope system. Far too often I find myself with a scoped weapon that does not shoot where the crosshairs are aiming.

The second thing I would change is to make scope weapons bob the same amount as irons. It will obviously look like more due to magnification, but the amplitude of movement should obviously be the same with scope or without.
--An easy test to see how scoped weapons bob/recoil more: Fire ten shots up a wall with the irons version, then drop it and fire ten with a scoped version from the same spot. You will notice that the line of bullet hits for the scoped gun snakes from side to side and climbs higher, while the iron's goes up in a straight line.

[Logan6]

Well, its nice to see a discusion about scopes without everyone trying to kill each other Personally, I quit using anything with scopes in the game, because as Keihas points out, your bullets go all over the place. Shooting with the iron sights is much more accurate. The scopes in this game are whacked. They need much change to make them more realistic. And if people are worried about getting killed by snipers, well, that just makes you more careful and the game more interesting

[[C22]-Mort]

For me the weapon bob (all of the things Yurch mentioned) is fine because I have been playing INF for 3/4 years and it feels like second nature to me now my playing style evolved over time and in 2.9 I played a primarily sniping role, where weapon bob was less of an issue for me!

However I know that if I picked up INF now as a newbie it would probably be one of the things that would take the most getting used to, and would possibly be the one thing that would maybe stop me playing it!


Hehehe....I remember when we used to play INF at work in our office, Technical Dept. Vs Sales Dept. ... we very nearly gave up on INF until we discovered we could hold our breath to steady the scope

[ecale3]

I don't think the scopes need to be made easier, and i'm someone who uses them as much as possible.

[Crowze]

Originally Posted by ecale3

I don't think the scopes need to be made easier, and i'm someone who uses them as much as possible.

Seconded. Although I see your point Kehias about the spread, you should really be using a scoped weapon on semi only. If you're close enough to be accurate on burst or auto, you don't need a scope. It's all about choosing the right weapon for the occasion.

Probably what throws a lot of people off is the ballistics system, which you don't often notice when using a non-scoped weapon. It just means using a scoped weapon is more difficult to master, which is wholly a good thing.

[WeeD.Evil]

I think scoped weapons do bob alittle too much and this is reflected by the players (Most people playing now only use iron sights).
But i do understand that if this affect is reduced too much that everyone will go back to useing scopes are irons will become redundent again.
I would say reduce bob alittle when moving and reduce the time it takes to steady your aim when crouched and prone.

[Falke]

Originally Posted by keihaswarrior

The second thing I would change is to make scope weapons bob the same amount as irons. It will obviously look like more due to magnification, but the amplitude of movement should obviously be the same with scope or without.
--An easy test to see how scoped weapons bob/recoil more: Fire ten shots up a wall with the irons version, then drop it and fire ten with a scoped version from the same spot. You will notice that the line of bullet hits for the scoped gun snakes from side to side and climbs higher, while the iron's goes up in a straight line.

I support this idea but we had the same discussion 6 months ago
( http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showt...4&page=1&pp=30 )
and nothing happened after that.
At the moment Acogs are nearly not used because of this - to kill an enemy you need to hit him 2/3 times with the current amount of Weapon Bob + reaiming time it takes ages to kill him.

[Cleeus[JgKdo]]

The way the scoped weapons are done makes people only use them when they need them. I recently played Vietnam and Tigerhunt][ with DTAS and a full server and people started to use ACOGs.

But they only use them when they need them and not on maps which provide only short/mid-range combat distances.

So I think they are OK.

[erehwoN]

If you're think they're too difficult to use, you may consider practicing with them

[mbs357]

The scopes are very realistic now. I just wish I could rest the gun on something when standing or crouching. =p

[Keganator]

No. Difficult to master (not learn) scopes are exeedingly rare in all computer games. If you want to be good at a weapon, you should have the skills to use it.



Derelan, while you egg on this conversation, you've never posted your opinion. Are you waiting for something...perhaps a clear victor first?