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Old 7th May 2004, 06:21 AM   #1
DeDpoet|BuF
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the "me vs the world thread"

Yesterday I was playin ONS-Crossfire. I have no idea what my team was doing, but the node setup was such that there was only 1 primary node linking to the base. At the get-go, I jump on a manta waiting for others. Even voicing "all alboard manta." No one was around, no one came. So I jump in and leave. Apparently 2 guys were trying to get to primary on foot. =80 (shock & dismay). I don't know where the rest of the team was. So we build the primary node. My plan is this - I will help retake the center node while others take another secondary. (Again, I voicecomm 'going to center node, somebody go for node X')

I jet to center and start mixing it up (blue team already captured it). I manage to grab the ION painter and knock the node down to almost nothing - then I'm denied. (omg, the primary node was destroyed!)

I jet back to primary and fend off blue team. I retake it. From then on, it was an endless firefight with blue attackers. The problem is, I have no help! Between engagements I'm asking for help "all alone!" "need backup!" "help defend primary node!"

Eventually support arrives (ala 1 man). I have no idea where the rest of the team was or what they were doing, but in the end we got crushed. I was at the top of the list at 59 points if I remember correctly. Second place was like 17. Everyone below that was 9 or lower. O_o

It must have been a pub server of newbies, I guess. I'm not a 1337 player, nor do I ever dominate. And this was one of the few circumstances where I place first by a long shot. Even so, the match was distressing. I felt like I was playing invasion at first node, in single player. Still, I was able to weather it in good humor. No anger, just a "where were you guys?"

I'd like to hear some of your stories were it seems like you've carried the team for good or ill, or just feel like you're left to fight it out alone...
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"Many a man has reached the summit of a life-long ambition and found it to be mere vanity. In gaining all he has lost all; wealth has come, but the power to enjoy it has gone; life has been worn out in the pursuit, and no strength is left with which to enjoy the game. It shall not be so with the man who lives by faith [in Christ], for his chief joys are above, and his comfort lies within. To him God is joy so rich that other joy is comparatively flavorless." C.H. Spurgeon

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Old 7th May 2004, 06:55 AM   #2
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As dumb as this might sound, your situation was a good thing.

It means that there are people playing the game for the first time (yeah, all ONS for now, give it time....give it time), and LOTS of them.
I'm really glad that we have newbies, it means the game has a future. I don't know if you played much 2k3, but it was pretty bad towards the end. There were only a handful of CTF servers and most of the time they were being dominated by 1 or 2 really good players. Most maps were total blowouts, it still happens in 2k4 but I can get on pubs and have a pretty good close match almost every night.

More to your point though, yeah I've had those kinda ONS matches, where I was on top and the only one that could halfway play on my team, it's frustrating.

But I've also jumped into pubs where my team was down to the last node and fighting their asses off and just one more halfway decent player added to the team turned the match around for a win, and when it's over and everyone is "gg'ing" the losing team is all baffled and saying stuff like "we had them down, what happened"....etc. That feeling like you made a difference more than offsets the crappy games.

edit: you've got CS Lewis in your sig, how much of his work have you read? The more serious stuff I mean, not the Chronicals of Narnia.

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Old 7th May 2004, 07:00 AM   #3
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Certainly I have played matches where I was playing at my level best and I thought that my team and I would steamroll the opposition. It's rusually just at that moment that the other team spanks and does not stop spanking until my ass is sore and I'm running around wondering the same thing: "Team? Hello?".
To be fair though, I know that I've played matches where I just am distracted by stunting around in a vehicle. I would normally reserve that kind of behavior for Instant Action, but every once in a while, I'm just a slacker.
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Old 7th May 2004, 07:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanover_Fist
That feeling like you made a difference more than offsets the crappy games.
Right on, Hanover! The bitter makes the sweet that much sweeter!
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Old 7th May 2004, 07:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanover_Fist
As dumb as this might sound, your situation was a good thing.

It means that there are people playing the game for the first time (yeah, all ONS for now, give it time....give it time), and LOTS of them.

edit: you've got CS Lewis in your sig, how much of his work have you read? The more serious stuff I mean, not the Chronicals of Narnia.
I see your point, newbloods are a good thing. I just wish it wasn't as painful... :P

turnarounds are the best, btw.

as for CS Lewis -
I've read the first 2 books from his space trilogy.
Mere Christianity
A Grief observed.

I started reading an autobiography of him once. Only got through the first 4 chapters, tho. It was cool hearing him discuss how as a kid he was terrified of insects because it seemed to him that the 'machinery was all on the outside.'
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>play on, mobace<
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Old 7th May 2004, 07:26 AM   #6
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Mere Christianity is awesome. You should also check out The Great Divorce and The Weight of Glory. Lewis is a great read.

Back on topic, ppl playing ONS like DM bug me. To be fair, it's not like the strategy of ONS is laid bare for everyone to see, but still....
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Old 7th May 2004, 07:35 AM   #7
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Lewis is a good read... though I found the chornicals of narnia a bit to preachy for my tastes.
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Old 7th May 2004, 08:15 AM   #8
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I've never read Lewis. I should though, because I think it's important to understand other points of view (I'm an Athiest).
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Old 7th May 2004, 08:25 AM   #9
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I am not a christian... but I heard he was a good author and he is.

And by preachy I don't mean christian. I just mean at times he comes off like a pompus ass about things.
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Old 7th May 2004, 08:56 AM   #10
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Mere Christianity is probably his best book when it comes to first meeting Lewis and his beliefs. It's very laid back and has a "discussion over a brew & a smoke" feel to it. At the same time, he throws out some critical thoughts that deals with the logics of the Christian faith.
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>play on, mobace<
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Old 7th May 2004, 09:07 AM   #11
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I've only read "The Screwtape Letters" and that was a long time ago.
Anyways, I've had the same experience that you guys have described, except mostly in CTF. Almost everytime I join a game in progress I get put on the team that's losing because a player(s) left. It's an uphill battle from then on.
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Old 7th May 2004, 09:44 AM   #12
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I had that experience last night on...Severance? The one where the tank spawns in the middle. I hopped into the server after they were alredy getting hammered, was able to gain back the node on the right, and ALMOST the center...but lo and behold I was the only one attacking it. So I lost it, and then we lost the node on the right. After that it was like 1vs7 for that node on the right while their one other guy attacked our core. Needless to say, they won. Where does your team go? Or do they just die? I refuse to believe that they just run away from the only place they can spawn and circle jerk the raptor respawn so they can fly away and never come back...
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Old 7th May 2004, 10:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigmata
I've never read Lewis. I should though, because I think it's important to understand other points of view (I'm an Athiest).
That's an awfully noble attitude, most people just want to read stuff that reinforces their own beliefs.

About a year and a half ago I dove deep into the Evolutionary Debate, and read most everything I could from both sides, but tried to steer clear of certain authors that I knew didn't have the scientific background to add weight to their arguements. The biggest mistake is people often misconstrue/misunderstand the 1st and 2nd laws of Thermodynamics. I'm an Engineer and I've taken more "Thermo" than you can shake a stick at, so I recognize those types of mistakes quickly.

Anyhoo...If you're interested in other points of view from an strictly intellectual standpoint (no biblical references, I don't think) I would suggest reading "The God who is There" by Francis Schaeffer.
It's a pretty heady book, and if you're going to read it you should be familiar with Sartre' and Nietze (and what good Athiest would not know who they are ).
Even if you don't know who they are read it anyway, you'll learn a lot of really big words.

Whoa, huge thread derailment......sorry.


Uhhhh, yeah ONS is great, lotsa fun...blah blah..
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Old 7th May 2004, 10:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scumgrief
I rather enjoy games like that, frustrating as they can be. It's good training - you vs. several other players that know what they're doing. If you can hold them off for a long period of time, kudos! You still might lose, but think of it this way: if you were in a match with coordinated players, you'd be a good contributor to the team.
Good point, I do see that. But it's still frustrating because you are like...where is the team????? If I knew that they were just milling around or something it would be different. But I have a stinging sensation that says that most of them are at the enemy power core either attacking it or waiting to attack it...
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Old 7th May 2004, 11:32 AM   #15
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or "healing" their base node.... which is so demoralizing, lemme tell ya.
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>play on, mobace<
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Old 7th May 2004, 02:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
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or "healing" their base node.... which is so demoralizing, lemme tell ya.
lol its funny to see that
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Old 8th May 2004, 07:08 AM   #17
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God i hate being in a team of idiots. I was playing ons-khakmo earlier today and i swear my teammates were a bunch of tards... Right at the start of the second round i head down in my tank to the second node and i tell the two guys to take the first, but i see them speeding past in their manta/hellbender, so i slowly make my way to the first node while the blue team claims there 3rd. After i had built it up they say they are heading to node 2, but as i approach in the hellbender, they hadn't even built it yet . So i had to build it myself, after this i was first on the red team ladder with 23 points (including the score from the end of the previous round) and i find out the two guys are harrassing the enemy at an unlinked node. At this point i was steamed at the admin for changing me to red, so i mow him down a little . This is right about the time my team had managed to get themselves killed, so they respawn at the tank back at the core and slowly make there way up to me at the 3rd node while i hold off the enemy team of 4 guys (with about 50-70 points under their belts) so i tell my team i need some help, and to get in the mantas, but they stay in the damn tank and i lose my node, luckily a half decent player joined, even though we lost in the end due to overtime we won back afew nodes. The score ended up as me gettin 60+ kills, the new guy getting about 40 kills and the two other guys getting 10- kills. I couldn't stand playing another map with them so i disconnected and gave up on onslaught for the rest of the day, at least there are some decent players in the assault servers.
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Old 8th May 2004, 12:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
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...and i find out the two guys are harrassing the enemy at an unlinked node. ...
Story of my life....
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Old 8th May 2004, 01:23 PM   #19
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I think it comes down to a handful of players all saying, "Can't someone else do it?" Next thing you know, you've got a whole team of buck-passers not communicatin' and running round doing their own thing.

Spec a server and watch people in action! That may be the key.
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Old 8th May 2004, 01:41 PM   #20
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There are a couple key problems and reasons why you will never see ONS played well on a pub, I don't care how long the damn game is out.

Nobody wants to take a supporting back up role, everybody wants to be in the middle of the front pushing forward. There is no backbone to it and instead of a purposefull push, its more of a move front of idiots.

Secondly the longer the game is out the more vicious clan bassed tactics get. I know from the matches scrims we have played that there are some real brutal ways to shut down a team once you get control of certain points. The problem is all it takes is one clanned player to pull that kind of stunt in a pub, and then every jackass says "hey thats a damn good idea if I camp X node with the hellbender I get an assload of kills", or hey "spawn camping them with the manta is a good idea we get lots of points" and before you know it the entire team is over there doing it because they saw it work once.... and then once again we are back to square one of nothing is getting done.

Hell I am guilty of it, it's more fun to be where the action is than scooting around taking nodes... its more fun to be the dude in the tank kicking ass then the poor bastard on in manta grabbing nodes. The thing is in priv games with people that goes out the window and there is a sense of unity. The whole "we are all in this together" lets see what we can do. On pubs where you don't know people its more of a "well if you won't take one for the team why the **** should I", and then some poor sap gets stucking doing all the grunt work.

Funny thing is, seems the team with 2 poor saps always beats the team with 1 poor sap.
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