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Old 4th May 2004, 02:26 PM   #1
Air Bike Cop
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Unreal Gold

I have Unreal and the addon, and due to some problems with the game in the past, I bought Unreal Gold, and I was wondering, is it worth keeping Unreal and the addon, if I have unreal gold?
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Old 4th May 2004, 04:27 PM   #2
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If you want to make levels, mods or want to run a server, you are better off with Unreal 225f. Unreal 226f and Unreal Gold give compatibility problems.
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Old 5th May 2004, 06:35 PM   #3
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keep them all as I have all installed.
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Old 6th May 2004, 02:43 PM   #4
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Well, I guess I'll keep it anyway.

Still got to get over my phobia of the flies. For some reason they scare me, and have since 1998!
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Old 6th May 2004, 10:32 PM   #5
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game is just as good now as 1998...
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Old 16th Aug 2004, 01:11 PM   #6
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where do u get Unreal Gold?

Who knows where 2 get unreal gold me and my friend really wanna to kick monsters a plzz tell me
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Old 16th Aug 2004, 01:16 PM   #7
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plz tell me faster i relally wanna kick monter ass
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Old 16th Aug 2004, 04:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Hunter
Who knows where 2 get unreal gold me and my friend really wanna to kick monsters a plzz tell me
Try online game shops (Search)
Ebay
Amazon
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Old 18th Aug 2004, 12:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper
If you want to make levels, mods or want to run a server, you are better off with Unreal 225f. Unreal 226f and Unreal Gold give compatibility problems.
That used to be the case, but 225 has security problems.. One of these days I might get around to recompiling upak so gold players can join 226 servers but dont hold your breath. Most of us would prefer to run a 225 server but it isnt worth it with all the troubles that come with it.
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Old 18th Aug 2004, 01:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Hunter
Who knows where 2 get unreal gold me and my friend really wanna to kick monsters a plzz tell me
If you want Unreal gold you'd be better off buying "totally unreal" which includes UT GOTY edition and Unreal gold in one package and youd probably get it for around the same price. However the original Unreal will allow you to join more servers.
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Old 18th Aug 2004, 05:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgard
That used to be the case, but 225 has security problems.. One of these days I might get around to recompiling upak so gold players can join 226 servers but dont hold your breath. Most of us would prefer to run a 225 server but it isnt worth it with all the troubles that come with it.
I've been out of the Unreal server loop for about a year but from what I remember 225 was the lesser evil. Sure 225 wasn't 100% secure but 226 was far worse.
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Old 18th Aug 2004, 09:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zynthetic
I've been out of the Unreal server loop for about a year but from what I remember 225 was the lesser evil. Sure 225 wasn't 100% secure but 226 was far worse.
Maybe 224 should be the solution, but it has it's own problems.
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Old 18th Aug 2004, 07:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zynthetic
I've been out of the Unreal server loop for about a year but from what I remember 225 was the lesser evil. Sure 225 wasn't 100% secure but 226 was far worse.
Nope, 225 = giving unauthorized players admin access. It doesnt get any worse than that. Not to mention theres no ip logging to ban them with.
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Old 18th Aug 2004, 08:23 PM   #14
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dang, when did that start?
The only unauth "admin" I had on my server was Klingon. I made a mut that checked the players joining class and disallowed upak changing it to a unreali class. This "feature" was later added to jcoop (I think that's the name). Tested (unknowingly of course ) by that same Klingon. "What did I just dl?"
I can't remember who (Falcon?) but there was a thing I let him try about a client forcing the admin pw to change. IP Ban is about the only thing I'd be interested in, only bc it's quicker than searching and adding into the NAT.
I have been using 224 for OpenGL the past year though. I haven't heard much about that or did 225 inherit the security flaws?
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Old 20th Aug 2004, 02:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zynthetic
dang, when did that start?
The only unauth "admin" I had on my server was Klingon. I made a mut that checked the players joining class and disallowed upak changing it to a unreali class. This "feature" was later added to jcoop (I think that's the name). Tested (unknowingly of course ) by that same Klingon. "What did I just dl?"
I can't remember who (Falcon?) but there was a thing I let him try about a client forcing the admin pw to change. IP Ban is about the only thing I'd be interested in, only bc it's quicker than searching and adding into the NAT.
I have been using 224 for OpenGL the past year though. I haven't heard !much about that or did 225 inherit the security flaws?
Its been around for awhile now but its not widespread, still more players seem to know of it than earlier.. I Havent bothered to find out a lot about it as all the servers Im in contact with now run 226 and I havent even looked at the code, basically Im not interested .
I'm told however than its upak related and certain conditions have to be met before you get the admin acccess (im not going to explain here in the forums ) . Remembering 225 allows gold players etc...

Well yeah you can put a false upak into serverpackages etc.. But then if upak can effect 225 why couldnt any lamer make their own player classes? Hopefully youve thought of that added further security to your mutator.

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Old 20th Aug 2004, 07:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgard
That used to be the case, but 225 has security problems.. One of these days I might get around to recompiling upak so gold players can join 226 servers but dont hold your breath. Most of us would prefer to run a 225 server but it isnt worth it with all the troubles that come with it.
===
Nope, 225 = giving unauthorized players admin access. It doesnt get any worse than that. Not to mention theres no ip logging to ban them with.
I've been running a v225 server for about 2 years now I have never experienced any unauthorized admin access. I of course use JCoop4 with my own personal fixed up add-on for it (Joss' missed a lot of problems ) to repair TONs of other security holes though. From my knowledge v226f or v226Gold aren't any better at all and inherite all the SAME playerpawn and gametype security flaws of the older classic versions. The only advantage of Gold is the default crash-free UPakConsole, and like to you mentioned...built in IP logging support. However, WingedUnicorn and other gametype coders have proven that IP logging can be done in classic versions crash-free and probably even more effectively with intense identification checks too. The admin security issue was probably completely related to UPak player classes granting admin-like priviledges (again tied to Gold version's UPakPlayer.Summon command). With a login mutator or gametype forcing particular player classes to be used that stuff isn't a problem. In fact, I've heard mostly that Gold was the main version completely vulnerable to grant players admin-like priveldges, which is why these newer gametypes force either the Unreali/UnrealShare player classes or their own fixed up classes anyway.

As for the v226f and Gold compatibility problems, that can't be fixed without a new Epic/UTPG game patch. The problem isn't with UPak or it loading that DLL file, because the issue is deeper and involves the networking in the patches. Legend decided to make tiny changes in the v226 patch (creating v226b gold in the proccess) wich broke it with v226f. v226f players couldn't join a Gold server even if the Gold server had NO UPak at all. All the v226f players would experience is a native game crash back to desktop if UPAK was removed from the Gold server. If the Gold server left UPak loaded than v226f players would get "missing UnrealShare.logo" and still be rejected in. It goes that other way around too. Gold players would crash trying to join a v226f server UNLESS the admin of the v226f server put up a fake UPak.u file to block them. ONLY v224/v225 players can join a Gold server IF UPak was changed or removed. Also, Gold players can ONLY join v224/v225/v226Gold...BUT still not v226f.

On top of the v226f/Gold compatibilty problems are the odd client bug issues such as poor garbage collection (getting duplicates of everything when disconnecting/reconnecting on the same map) and a broken password system requiring admins to always use the commandline to log as admin. In short, read the linke Hyper.nl gave of version problems which sums everything up too.

To me...all these v226f/Gold servers are a curse and should convert to v225. They segregate what's left of the Unreal community into pockets and create unwillingness (and DIS-interest :P ) to hop to the other sides. I could care less if players still loved to use Gold or v226f for client gaming...just as long as they make their servers a v225 so that the broadest amount of players can join it. The biggest disadvantage I've found of v225 was the inability to run the RTNP maps due to the UPak dependancy. That is why I've been hoping for over 2 years now that Dinwitty and you asGard would finaly wrap up the RTNP2U conversion pack.


-Zombie

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Old 21st Aug 2004, 11:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgard
Well yeah you can put a false upak into serverpackages etc.. But then if upak can effect 225 why couldnt any lamer make their own player classes? Hopefully youve thought of that added further security to your mutator.
Not quite like that. It checked the playerclass of the client durring prelogin. Only if it was a UPak class it would change it to the equaliviant UnrealI/UnrealShare class. Players trying to join as the eye or chesspiece were autokicked. If someone tried to join with another class not covered they will default to male1.
Joss got it from the cache after connecting to my test server. AFAIK it's no differnt from the same feature found in JCoop, except my source isn't stripped
I could care less about credits now, it's far too late. Shambler did help me w/ some replacement code I could've never done myself, so shouts. I think I still have it (UnEx was the initial project name) on cd if someone wants a mut that only does the above.
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Old 23rd Aug 2004, 06:22 PM   #18
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Well I only own UGold because I bought it with the totally unreal pack. I've done only UGold servers as to this date with Moo Moo Land and my own [CW] server. Most users now a days who play coop are gold players anyways, if you don't believe me ask the people in your server one day..unless your a 226f server, lol.

I've always cut off upak.u so 225/224 users can get into the server and it's done fairly well. That was with MML and the server would be packed for long periods of time. As of right now my server is gold only due to the fact I'm working with Zombie on a RTNP mutator fix. Even still that server has it's full times. I don't think I'll convert my server to 225 any time soon unless I were to run 2 servers, cause it's nice to actually run those RTNP maps. Just kinda a rare treat for everyone :P.
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Old 31st Aug 2004, 12:09 AM   #19
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Well we'd been running 225 happilly since it first came out and was happy to be rid of the 224 problems and in that time we'd never experienced any security flaws with 225 as dedicated (apart from dos attacks ect).

However I would not of thought walking through walls was possible and aimbots etc would work either yet here we are. If someone is telling me that that 225 is giving conditonal admin access I wont simply dismiss it because Ive never seen it happen. I havent seen this first hand so I cant confirm it and I dont have Gold to test it. Fact is tho we were getting several reports of this happening, however the server wasnt running any third party mods or gametypes. It may be that these mods give you the protection needed.
One thing tho as were running 226 we havent been effected as these player classes are simply denied (admin access, not bots).


Well my intentions was to rebuild upak without any player classes, Ive got RTNP but I dont have a copy of Gold.. So youre telling me if I run a 226 server with a rebuilt upak, gold players cant join if they have the new upak?? Well this saves me from buying Gold and going though to all the trouble.. so thx

Well had Unreal still had all the players and all the servers were full you wouldnt of suggested were "segregating" the community and we wouldn't of been having this conversation. However this is hardly our fault. For Unreal to gain more players it basically needs to be re-released or at the very least a 227 patch. Just as you dont like running 226 a lot of us dont like running some of these mods. and with 226 (non gold) we arent getting these problems at all. For the forementioned web pages.. Its probably good basic information for noobs and a good effort but doesnt cover the problems or make suggestions or go into any detail. This is what they want but I dont suggest you base everything on whats written there.
I havent barely looked at the script to see whats involved as these type of mods bore the hell out of me (but aware of the problem) and thankfully theres plenty of good people doing it already. I might have a chat to cazz or perhaps winged to see what theyve come up with. Who knows we may all convert to 225 yet

As far as the rtnp project, work still goes on with it, dont think that weve abandoned it. The final map is being done and various tweaks added here and there.. Its more of a rtnp remake (or as you said conversion) than a rtnp fix. Hopefully the wait will be worth it or at least be happy with the end result. Yeah its taken awhile but dinwitty has had a lot of maps to fix, so things havent been idle even tho they may seem like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie{DZ}
I've been running a v225 server for about 2 years now I have never experienced any unauthorized admin access. I of course use JCoop4 with my own personal fixed up add-on for it (Joss' missed a lot of problems ) to repair TONs of other security holes though. From my knowledge v226f or v226Gold aren't any better at all and inherite all the SAME playerpawn and gametype security flaws of the older classic versions. The only advantage of Gold is the default crash-free UPakConsole, and like to you mentioned...built in IP logging support. However, WingedUnicorn and other gametype coders have proven that IP logging can be done in classic versions crash-free and probably even more effectively with intense identification checks too. The admin security issue was probably completely related to UPak player classes granting admin-like priviledges (again tied to Gold version's UPakPlayer.Summon command). With a login mutator or gametype forcing particular player classes to be used that stuff isn't a problem. In fact, I've heard mostly that Gold was the main version completely vulnerable to grant players admin-like priveldges, which is why these newer gametypes force either the Unreali/UnrealShare player classes or their own fixed up classes anyway.

As for the v226f and Gold compatibility problems, that can't be fixed without a new Epic/UTPG game patch. The problem isn't with UPak or it loading that DLL file, because the issue is deeper and involves the networking in the patches. Legend decided to make tiny changes in the v226 patch (creating v226b gold in the proccess) wich broke it with v226f. v226f players couldn't join a Gold server even if the Gold server had NO UPak at all. All the v226f players would experience is a native game crash back to desktop if UPAK was removed from the Gold server. If the Gold server left UPak loaded than v226f players would get "missing UnrealShare.logo" and still be rejected in. It goes that other way around too. Gold players would crash trying to join a v226f server UNLESS the admin of the v226f server put up a fake UPak.u file to block them. ONLY v224/v225 players can join a Gold server IF UPak was changed or removed. Also, Gold players can ONLY join v224/v225/v226Gold...BUT still not v226f.

On top of the v226f/Gold compatibilty problems are the odd client bug issues such as poor garbage collection (getting duplicates of everything when disconnecting/reconnecting on the same map) and a broken password system requiring admins to always use the commandline to log as admin. In short, read the linke Hyper.nl gave of version problems which sums everything up too.

To me...all these v226f/Gold servers are a curse and should convert to v225. They segregate what's left of the Unreal community into pockets and create unwillingness (and DIS-interest :P ) to hop to the other sides. I could care less if players still loved to use Gold or v226f for client gaming...just as long as they make their servers a v225 so that the broadest amount of players can join it. The biggest disadvantage I've found of v225 was the inability to run the RTNP maps due to the UPak dependancy. That is why I've been hoping for over 2 years now that Dinwitty and you asGard would finaly wrap up the RTNP2U conversion pack.


-Zombie
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Old 31st Aug 2004, 12:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zynthetic
Not quite like that. It checked the playerclass of the client durring prelogin. Only if it was a UPak class it would change it to the equaliviant UnrealI/UnrealShare class. Players trying to join as the eye or chesspiece were autokicked. If someone tried to join with another class not covered they will default to male1.
Joss got it from the cache after connecting to my test server. AFAIK it's no differnt from the same feature found in JCoop, except my source isn't stripped
I could care less about credits now, it's far too late. Shambler did help me w/ some replacement code I could've never done myself, so shouts. I think I still have it (UnEx was the initial project name) on cd if someone wants a mut that only does the above.
Well If I was you id still make it available, some servers are purists and dont want over spiced mods. It may be that someone is looking for just that and of course choice is a good thing
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