17th Parallel

[Kahoona]

This mod idea has been going through my head for about 2 weeks now. It is a Vietnam War UT2K4 mod. If you are inerested in helping, please post what field you're in. Also post if you think it is a good idea.

Here is the logo I made.

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

Depending on how you do some stuff it may have a hard time against BF:Vietnam. Also, there are a lot of realism mods for UT2K3 already out there. Now, I know you want this for UT2K4 and think, those in UT2K3 is for UT2K3, but as I know, the extent of compatibility fixes isn't particulary difficult to do and depending on a mod size it may only take a night to fix or several days even.

You might need more of a description of your mod to encourage people to join you. Maybe show some of your own work [If you haven't slightest clue about how to mod UT2K4 then that isn't a very good start IMHO] or at least describe how the game will function like. Try not to use existing games in a way to describe this such as "Think BattleField 1942 meets Warcraft 3", since that often tends to leave obscured views on your mod on those two games.

There is some good information on these forums on how to start a team and a successful mod as well.

IMHO: I think there are too many realism shooters out there atm. Some areas need to be explored such as Shinobi's, D&D, stealth, blind fire. There isn't much of these in mod's but quite a lot in commercial games...

[Kahoona]

I am still working out the details.

[kadrinathug]

Are u a coder?

[Kahoona]

No.

[vandor]

Originally Posted by Kahoona

I am still working out the details.

Yeah the details are rather important. Nice logo but I agree with snake. Thinking about a mod for two weeks isn't much. I've been just thinking about "Jupiter Project" since late December. In any kind of dev, especially games, the "think about it" phase should take the most of the time. That way the actual implementation of it goes smoothly and quickly. Also there really are a lot of realism games and the Vietnam War is really over used, as is WWII. We can only exploit these parts of history so much. Make it about the American Revolution or something, one that hasn't been done to death. Maybe American Revolution Commandos or AR:Guerilla Fighters or something. Looks like you've got the logo stuff down, now just need to actually flesh it out. Think about what people would be willing to play and what hasn't been really done. Maybe do the Vietnam War from the side of the VC? Kinda like doing WWII from the Nazi or Japanese POV but hey, there were no "good" and "bad" sides.

[JackReacher]

Please tell me, because i would love to know your secret, why would any experienced modder want to sign up for this mod, and not the likes of other big mods like Red Orchestra? What do you offer that they dont allready have? At least wait untill you have a website up with a bit of work on it before trying to recruit.

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

Yes, everybody has made very valid points. Live and let learn I guess.

[Kahoona]

Thanks for the positive reinforcement...

[Grint0r]

why the hell are you people puttin kahoona down?

i can understand constructive criticism but jack

"Please tell me, because i would love to know your secret, why would any experienced modder want to sign up for this mod, and not the likes of other big mods like Red Orchestra? What do you offer that they dont allready have? At least wait untill you have a website up with a bit of work on it before trying to recruit"

no offens jack but we know your trick for gettin into mod teams, first you become the dev team ballz licker then you produce some crappy artwork that isn't worthy of the mod and wham ur in!

how do you think mod teams start?

you think the team and the concept and everything else just pops into exsistence? no. it starts with usually one or a few people with lotsa ideas and trying to make them part of the mod.

Reasons for joining red orchestra mod:
-Already a popular mod so you can have ur name on their credits list
-Offer your talent to make their mod even better than it is

Reasons for not joing red orchestra mod:
-They already have enough team members and unless you're genuinly very special at your field, the mod would probably rather have someone else do a certain task instead of you.
-The mod is already made, all you would be doing is updating it
-You have little or no say in the design stage, if you don't like some thing in the mod you have to put up with it

what is more satisfying, being some tag-along to an already complete mod or being a core piece of an up and coming mod that helps get it off the ground.

jesus don't just lay down the cusses and bring out some encouragement, some ideas/advice of your own.

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

Well, I think my points are still very valid. I wasn't putting Kahoona down, but you have to admit Grint0r, this is your first post. Thus you are new to this forum, and from what I gather from most new comers to forums is that they are overly sensitive about the way things are said.

In any case, it does appear some of the things said here were said in a not so nice fashion, but then again try to look past that and look at the points that were made.

Of course it is more satisfying to be part of a new mod team, but it's like this. Do you want to compete with a large, complete mod that everyone else plays? No you don't, and this is why generally the new mods that come up and do well are the ones that are genuinely new and very different. For example, if UT2004 just came out with 4 way CTF and 4 way DOM with a 100+ maps for those two game types would it be interesting? No, 4 way CTF is definately different to 2 way CTF, but it isn't particularly new or exciting. [No intended offense to those who are making 4 way CTF/DOM].

Anyways, the art of starting up a mod team is just more than ideas and concepts. It is the knowledge of actually making a game. You cannot just pick a guy of a street and even if he has played games all his life he/she cannot just simply be good at playing a game because of that. Understanding why games are good is what is important, and unfortunately not everyone knows how to do this. Games and mods are pretty much the same, it just depends on the level you go at.

[Grint0r]

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

Well, I think my points are still very valid. I wasn't putting Kahoona down, but you have to admit Grint0r, this is your first post. Thus you are new to this forum, and from what I gather from most new comers to forums is that they are overly sensitive about the way things are said.

yea and the people that are regulars here turn into ignorant sh*t eaters. i was here, oo 2 decades ago when SAS for UT was in development. but unfortunately my account was banned for whatever reason so don't talk about something you know nothing about. weren't you on the SAS team? remember a site called SAS Jumpschool? it coming back to you yet?

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

In any case, it does appear some of the things said here were said in a not so nice fashion, but then again try to look past that and look at the points that were made.

you wanna try to patronise me a bit more

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

Of course it is more satisfying to be part of a new mod team, but it's like this. Do you want to compete with a large, complete mod that everyone else plays? No you don't

how do you think mods start? you think everyone just hides away from creating new mods and joins CS or DOD because they're popular mods? jesus christ.

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

generally the new mods that come up and do well are the ones that are genuinely new(lol) and very different

lol. you have one hollow skull my friend. lets go over this.

CS
Tactical Ops
Strike Force
Infiltration
SAS
FragOps

and what do they all have in common, yes.. thats right. you guessed it

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

Anyways, the art of starting up a mod team is just more than ideas and concepts. It is the knowledge of actually making a game.

how in hell would you know about the art of starting up a mod team?

not only does kahoona have ideas and concept but he has knowledge of how the game works roughly. as in its boundaries, it's limits and potential. he is also good with photoshop so he can add something to the mod, whether it's logos, huds, menus or whatever. you think optimizer from the SF team actually knows how to make the game?

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

You cannot just pick a guy of a street and even if he has played games all his life he/she cannot just simply be good at playing a game because of that.

make sense for gods sake

word of advice solid snake, empty the **** out your mouth before you speak.

and yes you will probably go whining to a moderator/admin about this, and yes i probably will get banned.

[Mychaeel]

Is this going anywhere? If not, I'll just close this thread. Sorry, Kahoona.

[Kahoona]

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

Is this going anywhere? If not, I'll just close this thread. Sorry, Kahoona.

Leave it open for Kahoona, I think Grint0r just has a problem with me.

Grint0r, I will just answer your questions here. If you wish to have more discussions with me, make a new thread. Let's not invade Kahoona's thread with irrelevant stuff.

1. Yes I was the weapon modeller for SAS UT. I am no longer with the SAS team, but I occasional keep in touch with old members. Hence my [SAS] brackets in front.
2. Look at the newer mods, such as Marble Madness, Duffer's Golf(?, sorry if I got it wrong), Air Buccaners, GODZ, Chaos UT2k4.
3. I know UE2 inside out. I can code, do 2D/3D art, design levels, use Sound Forge (production of sound). I can do everything to make a mod, since I know how every element is set up. So not only can I come up with ideas/concepts I also know how to do implement it into Unreal straight away and I can also make pre judgements if Unreal is able to do it or not.
4. I don't whine to a moderator. If I see an offensive post, why should I attempt to flame it? I report it to appropriate authorities. And if you get banned, doesn't that mean that the moderator agrees with what I say or that the post I reported was offensive?
5. I think my points are valid still. You assume that I don't know very much about the Unreal Engine or that I am just some lacky working in another mod but your assumptions are pretty wrong.

Look Kahoona, just put an end to this. Say enough is enough and let people who want to work on your mod or people who give you feed back. All Grint0r has done here is to just flame my posts and not add any real substance to this post.

[Kahoona]

You skipped Grint's 4th quote reply...

[Grint0r]

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

2. Look at the newer mods, such as Marble Madness, Duffer's Golf(?, sorry if I got it wrong), Air Buccaners, GODZ, Chaos UT2k4.

no offense but none of them are really significantly popular except maybe Chaos UT2K4 which isn't a humungous change from UT2004 so this basically contradicts your previous ideas.

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

3. I know UE2 inside out. I can code, do 2D/3D art, design levels, use Sound Forge (production of sound). I can do everything to make a mod, since I know how every element is set up. So not only can I come up with ideas/concepts I also know how to do implement it into Unreal straight away and I can also make pre judgements if Unreal is able to do it or not.

yes, so why shun kahoonas ideas? why basically call him and his ideas worthless? if you have this tallent, why don't you offer them or even better still. offer something of actual value and help to kahoona.

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

4. I don't whine to a moderator. If I see an offensive post, why should I attempt to flame it? I report it to appropriate authorities. And if you get banned, doesn't that mean that the moderator agrees with what I say or that the post I reported was offensive?

this is pretty irelevant but not necessarily. a moderator might have seen my post and thought, oh this guy is just sticking up for someone. sure his language isn't required but i'll let it pass. if someone brings it to a mod's attention they feel inclined to do something about it, whether they genuinly care or not is another matter.

Originally Posted by [SAS]Solid Snake

5. I think my points are valid still. You assume that I don't know very much about the Unreal Engine or that I am just some lacky working in another mod but your assumptions are pretty wrong.

no. you assumed that i said that but i didn't. i can't see any reference to the unreal engine in my post.

"Look Kahoona, just put an end to this. Say enough is enough and let people who want to work on your mod or people who give you feed back. All Grint0r has done here is to just flame my posts and not add any real substance to this post."

listen solid snake. i happen to know kahoona outside of this forum so i have offered advice etc. outside of this thread. you haven't really offered anything of value to kahoona. nothing really other than discouragement. and then you do the whole "your a newbie" act on me.

if i was wanting to join a mod and i looked in this thread your post would put me right off. yes you may argue that my "abusive flames" don't help either but i have in no way put down the mod.

[kadrinathug]

Well I have a gun here that u can use.

[Grint0r]

Originally Posted by kadrinathug

Well I have a gun here that u can use.

poly count?

[Aegeri]

Originally Posted by Grint0r

no offense but none of them are really significantly popular except maybe Chaos UT2K4 which isn't a humungous change from UT2004 so this basically contradicts your previous ideas.

However it is rather fun and at least it isn't remaking another historical conflict, it is also fairly different from UT in a lot of respects. I'll really jump for joy at that one, sure. Also can you tell me how successful tactical ops and strike force were? Wait, they weren't actually, hence why they died like bricks with UT.

Damn eh? Chaos UT is still going however.

The point is still fairly valid, that there is already a vietnam game out (and is very popular) and the competition from the existing realism mods.

yes, so why shun kahoonas ideas? why basically call him and his ideas worthless? if you have this tallent, why don't you offer them or even better still. offer something of actual value and help to kahoona.

Why? I can't see any particular reason too. The advice is perfectly relevant and is reasonable given that many of those major realism mods are due for release for UT2k4, and that there is a game already out on the vietnam war. I for one am sick to death of the endless realism mods being made, there are ENOUGH god damn realism mods. More importantly, there are already a couple of really GOOD realism mods coming that will probably dominate 90% of the player base available for them. Take Counter Strike, did its success boost other realism mods on the half life engine?

No, it just commanded the majority of the player base. How often can you do (and redo) the same WW2, historical battles until it gets old?

You could just as well argue why he doesn't just do something new with his talent? Honestly, if you ask something like the below-

Also post if you think it is a good idea.

-and then, surprise, find that not everyone is going to be amazingly keen on your idea, then you shouldn't be overly surprised to recieve comments like "It has been done before" because it has (Unless you can prove that games like battlefield Vietnam and Vietkong never existed).

I don't see you rebutting any of his arguments, I just see you making random flames and generally making as many spelling mistakes as possible. Especially because all you did was come in here and immediately start running your mouth off...

this is pretty irelevant but not necessarily. a moderator might have seen my post and thought, oh this guy is just sticking up for someone.

Or, like me, he might assume you're a complete idiot.

That would be my first guess if I was a mod, but I wonder what the mods here would be.

With such golden arguments, including bonus spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, such as:

no offens jack but we know your trick for gettin into mod teams, first you become the dev team ballz licker then you produce some crappy artwork that isn't worthy of the mod and wham ur in!

or

word of advice solid snake, empty the **** out your mouth before you speak.

or

yea and the people that are regulars here turn into ignorant sh*t eaters

I would think you weren't worth much to the community either.

Incidently, when you are banned (and I hope so), don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

sure his language isn't required but i'll let it pass. if someone brings it to a mod's attention they feel inclined to do something about it, whether they genuinly care or not is another matter.

I don't either, the mods can make up their own mind. Your post was nothing but a complete flame with no argumentative quality or intelligence behind it. Hell, you aren't even witty, which makes you just another random internet flamer. Quite frankly, you were banned once and you just proved that you are probably worthy of being banned again.

no. you assumed that i said that but i didn't. i can't see any reference to the unreal engine in my post.

Interesting coming from someone who implies that the reasonable posts made in this thread were direct attacks. I guess you just haven't mastered the art of subtlety as well as they have (Clearly).

listen solid snake. i happen to know kahoona outside of this forum so i have offered advice etc.

So that gives you the right to act like a complete ass? Isn't it funny to note that even though you came in here looking for a lovely flame war, he had the maturity not to give you it?

Speaks volumes about your maturity now doesn't it

outside of this thread. you haven't really offered anything of value to kahoona.

You haven't offered anything of interest to this thread either, except your rampant wit of course. Next time, stay banned please.

nothing really other than discouragement. and then you do the whole "your a newbie" act on me.

if i was wanting to join a mod and i looked in this thread your post would put me right off.

Especially if you are in any way associated with it.

yes you may argue that my "abusive flames" don't help either but i have in no way put down the mod.

No, you simply came in here and frothed at the mouth. You made an unintelligent reply with no real rebuttal (just a blatant flame) and so quite frankly, if that is the level of intelligence of someone supporting such a mod, I would be put off as well.

jesus don't just lay down the cusses

Your first post was nothing but blatantly flaming one member, and then your second another member in this thread, neither of whom flamed you back.

Let he without sin cast the first stone. Guess that wouldn't be you.

While we are at this:

and what do they all have in common, yes.. thats right. you guessed it

They are all realism mods, and 3 of them failed dismally (hardly anyone playing them), one is still going strong and the other two haven't had major releases just yet?

So...they just have realism mod in common?

you think optimizer from the SF team actually knows how to make the game?

Well, considering that SF failed and is now dead, I guess that answer probably is no. Guess you need to know how to make a game after all.

GG for supporting your argument though.