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Old 19th Feb 2004, 09:14 AM   #121
TheShiningWizard
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Yeah, because all people who are good at UT have no life or friends.
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Old 19th Feb 2004, 09:30 PM   #122
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My first impression: "meh". I really liked UT, and i still do amazingly. It was a much better "whole package" than Q3 IMHO back in the day. It wasn't as pretty but it had a lot more under the hood to keep me intrested. I tried the 2k3 demo, and it was just "meh" as well. Good graphics with, pretty much just vanilla game play.

I'd totally agree that it's a twitch game, with tiny bits of stratagy mixed in as well. It's no tactical shooter, although i bet it wouldn't take more than a 30k mutator to fix that. Reduce movement, increase damage (or just do insta gib) and tweak some of the vehicle damage.. maybe add some kinda camo so that enemy doesn't glow in the dark.
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Old 19th Feb 2004, 10:54 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
Mind the attitude, *******. It wasn't about being "owned." I can handle losing. It's about being "owned" in such ridiculous and unbelievable fashion.

For a game which touts it's amazing physics engine, the players still run like Speedy Gonzales on crack, leap small buildings like Superman and can seemingly defy Newton's first law of motion by stopping and changing direction instantly with absolutely no loss of momentum.
Having played the original UT, what the hell did you expect? UT2K4 is not meant to be a realistic game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
Again, it's not about "sucking." It's about someone being able to destroy a f--king TANK with a minigun while cartwheeling around it like a spaz. I'm sorry if I find that type of gameplay to be juvenile and annoying...
Then why the hell did you even try it!? Were you unaware that you can destroy any vehicle in the game by shooting it enough times?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
No, they didn't. At the very least, they didn't rely on it as the sole determining factor of your success.
I feel you need to reevaluate your experiences in the game. Team tactics count in UT2K4 as well. It sounds to me like you were just lone-wolfing around, which could also be considered a stupid gameplay tactic, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
Why should I "give some god damned time" to a gameplay style that I find immature and beneath me?
An even better question, why on earth even try the demo if you hate the gameplay style so much? Once again, what on earth were you expecting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
Again, despite what you seem to think, I'm not complaining about being bad at the game. I'm complaining about the fact that being good at it requires a play style and mindset that I personally find distasteful.

-Keiichi
I'm sorry if my opening comments seemed to insinuate that I had not interpreted that.
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Old 20th Feb 2004, 12:58 AM   #124
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Why did I download the demo, CK? To check out the engine, to see what's been changed and to check if maybe, JUST MAYBE, Epic has realized that classic DOOM II-esque deathmatch died with the '90s. Apparently they haven't.

Excuse the f--k out of me for posting my opinion of a game in a thread asking specifically for that. I guess I shouldn't have even bothered...

When and if Counterstrike 2 is released, I'll probably download that and check it out as well, if only to see how the engine looks and what's been changed. And if I find that it's gameplay is still every bit as spastic and it's community is every bit as lame, I'll probably come here and post about it as well. Will you chew me out then too?

-Keiichi
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Old 20th Feb 2004, 01:34 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
to check if maybe, JUST MAYBE, Epic has realized that classic DOOM II-esque deathmatch died with the '90s. Apparently they haven't.
I still play DooM 2. Honestly, very few games came close to the mix of raw fun and perfect gameplay it is.
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Old 20th Feb 2004, 05:48 AM   #126
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Same here Freon... only because it runs on my PDA .

Keiichi, I think you were expecting too much of it. As you said, mutators and such could make the game much more how you want it to be.
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Old 20th Feb 2004, 07:16 PM   #127
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I played it.....and that little dune buggy is my favorite part of it. Everything else blows. I mean, a golf cart with extendable swiss army blades. That was a novel idea.
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Old 20th Feb 2004, 07:18 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
I hate UT2K4 for the same reasons I hated UT2K3. The community is a bunch of trash-talking 12 year olds and the gameplay is nothing but circle-strafing Quake deathmatch bullsh*t.

Sorry, I'll pass.

-Keiichi
I agree, although it can be fun if you're playing with some friends at a lan party or online. Just like even though i dont understand football, and probably wouldn't care if i did, i still enjoy it when i watch it with my friends. UT has always been one of those games. INF is a great game when you have lots of spare time and really want to give your brain a workout. UT2k4 demo is great when you want to release some energy or just get a quick blast in the morning. It isn't something you should spend memorizing every aspect of the map and game over, like i have seen some people do.
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Old 20th Feb 2004, 11:39 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
Why did I download the demo, CK? To check out the engine, to see what's been changed and to check if maybe, JUST MAYBE, Epic has realized that classic DOOM II-esque deathmatch died with the '90s. Apparently they haven't.
So it wasn't bleedingly obvious to you, like it was to me after having seen a few pictures and a movie of it, that the gameplay was largely unchanged before you downloaded it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
Excuse the f--k out of me for posting my opinion of a game in a thread asking specifically for that. I guess I shouldn't have even bothered...
Not saying that I don't welcome such things, I'd just like to first respond that, looking at my opening comment and the title of this thread, it seems to me that this thread was created solely for the purpose of announcing the fact that the demo had been released, and not for the propagation of debate.
But regardless of that, I'm not arguing with you because you posted your opinion, I'm arguing with you because I disagree with almost all of what you said, find several things that you did to be ludicrous, and am trying to sway your opinion to be more in accordance with mine, as is the nature of debate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
When and if Counterstrike 2 is released, I'll probably download that and check it out as well, if only to see how the engine looks and what's been changed. And if I find that it's gameplay is still every bit as spastic and it's community is every bit as lame, I'll probably come here and post about it as well. Will you chew me out then too?

-Keiichi
No, I'd probably throw in a hearty "Hear hear".
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Old 22nd Feb 2004, 07:02 PM   #130
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PFFT

Someone likes to hear themselves write...A LOT.
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Old 22nd Feb 2004, 07:32 PM   #131
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To be honest, I do like the sounds of keys tapping.
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Old 23rd Feb 2004, 07:50 PM   #132
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I haven't played 2k4 yet, so I'll suspend my judgement untill then, but I can see why some people would be disapointed that there isn't more. I allready made a thread a couple weeks ago outlining my doubts with 2k3. The main thing I didn't like was the lack of new weapons, and the lack of pre-existing weapons which should have been carried over from UT99, like the ripper or the tri-barrel shotgun. In my opinion, the main thing that seperated UT from other FPS's of the time was the weapons. Instead of going with the standard shotgun/machinegun/rocketlauncher fare, they created new, innovative weapons which forced you to approach combat differently, taking advantage of the fact that it's a game and anything can happen (ie ripper, shock rifle, biorifle). Even the shotgun, rocket launcher, and machinegun -type weapons were more dynamic than in other games (ie flak cannon). Mods like U4E took this idea to further (sometimes ridiculous) levels creating even crazier weapons. One of the logical things to improve on UT99 therefore would be to add new, more creative and innovative weapons, but instead 2k3 took out 2 weapons, and barely added any new ones. I was hoping 2k4 would improve on this, from what I've read, it sounds like most of new weapons are of the "more-bigger-ass-rocket-launcher" variety.

For all I know, vehicles and the new game types may completely make up for such lackings. I don't claim to know a game I haven't played. I'll let you know my final opinion when I've tried it. I just wish Epic had a bigger vision for expanding UT than just improving the graphics and adding vehicles.


Anyway, as for the idea that deathmatch-style FPS's are immature and stupid, with absolutely no strategy whatsoever, that's BS. Circle strafing, jumping, dodging, etc is part of the strategy of these games. You have to analyze your opponent's position, predict their most likely course of action, and respond based on that with the apropiate method of dodging, or a shot to apropriate location. There is more to it than just holding the 'strafe-right' key while swinging the mouse around to try to keep your crosshair accurately on the enemy while you blast away. Blind circle strafing or blind bunny hopping is pretty easy to deal with. Just aim ahead of your target's circle, or fire above them in their jump path. Of course, the enemy could be moving completely randomly, but it's impossible be completely random, and most humans wil reveal obvious patterns pretty quickly. Ultimately you have to asess the likely influences on their dodging techniques (ie, the walls or obstacles in their way, incoming fire, health packs and ammo they're trying to get to, rooms they're trying to escape to, etc).

Just because it happens to require reflexes doesn't mean it's mindless. That's like saying there's no strategy to fighting games just because you need the basic reflexes required to hit the buttons at the right time. I've seen people write multi-page essays on single facets of the strategy of Street Fighter 2. If your personal preference is against that style of gameplay, fine, there's nothing wrong with that, to each his own, but don't say it's stupid just cause you don't like it.
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Old 23rd Feb 2004, 07:52 PM   #133
TheShiningWizard
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But then he wouldn't be Keichii
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Old 23rd Feb 2004, 08:00 PM   #134
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I wouldn't know since I'm not an OT regular, but then, considering the amount of senseless flaming, bitching, and moaning that goes on here, I'm not sure I want to know.

BTW Nathan, do you still have those wall scroll links? I'm getting bored of my old ones and need to redecorate.
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Old 23rd Feb 2004, 08:27 PM   #135
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Hop on AIM one of these years and I'll dig them up for you
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Old 23rd Feb 2004, 11:08 PM   #136
recon1337
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played it once at my friend's house. its was ok. i guess. i think it would've been a whole lot better if they used some creativity while making 2k4. most of the weapons are just souped-up versions of 2k3. the vehicals were alota fun, but they were ripped from halo, so no credits to epic.
when the next version of INF 3.xx comes out, would it be compatible with 2k4? or just 2k3?
another question, anyone still plays INF 2.86? just wondering, cuz sometimes go back to the old INF once in a while, just to remember the good old days.
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Old 23rd Feb 2004, 11:20 PM   #137
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Reprise: Ya know since i posted my review i've been playing the demo more and more, and now it's grown on me.... espically the onslaught mode. Once you get the hang of the vehicles, and the general stratagy... it's really addictive. It sorta reminds me of a 1st person version of an old Genesis game called "Herzog Zwei" or something like that.
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Old 24th Feb 2004, 01:01 AM   #138
Freon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recon1337
the vehicals were alota fun, but they were ripped from halo, so no credits to epic.
As we all know, Halo invented the concept of vehicles in a video game
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Old 24th Feb 2004, 01:30 AM   #139
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I thought that was Al Gore?
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Old 24th Feb 2004, 04:59 AM   #140
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Quote:
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..essays on single facets of the strategy of Street Fighter 2
got a link? would be interesting to read.
street fighter 2 was my life a long time ago.
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