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Old 21st Jan 2004, 12:03 AM   #41
Meplat
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Jesus, that's clunky. One, what good is a bipod going to do you on a 14.5" tube? Like you're going to play Willy McBride and zap baddies at 600 meters with it? That's what a nice, simple M40 is for.

Two, if I'm wanting to customize to that level, I'll just model and mod myself a nice FN MAG, or PKM, and stop hanging curb feelers, and spinner hubcaps on a perfectly good carbine.

M4's are starting to look like they've been dragged through the SAR show with large magnets attached.

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Old 21st Jan 2004, 12:32 AM   #42
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Actually, I like the M4/bipod/supressor/reflex setup in AA for providing some supporting fire. The bipod raises your "CE" (combat efficiency, the larger the CE, the smaller the random cone fire) to the point that you're super accurate, and the reflex makes spotting the bad guys easy. On full auto from a nice bit of cover with the supressor, I'm silent and deadly.

And considering that ranges in UT/UT2K3 games aren't that big, the short barrel really isn't a disadvantage. In real life, maybe. But not in games.

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Old 21st Jan 2004, 01:03 AM   #43
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the only map it will have a problem is EP, Arid, and RTK
and it is right out of AA

So when can we get abeta for the fn mag
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Old 21st Jan 2004, 09:24 AM   #44
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Duke- This is not AA. Infil has a very nice M249. Why use what is effectively a cut down M16 in the supressive fire role?

For real? I'm sure accessory makers love it when the news posts pics of M4A1's with all kinds of crap hanging off em, as it seems everyone wants to take a fine light carbine, and make it what it isi'nt. If someone models all the junk one could hang off the poor M4, I just hope there is an accurate portrayal of the weight penalty as well.

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Old 21st Jan 2004, 10:40 AM   #45
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Meplat - Yes, I know about the M249 in INF, and I use it in INF at times. Very nice supporting fire weapon. I was just responding to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat
Jesus, that's clunky. One, what good is a bipod going to do you on a 14.5" tube? Like you're going to play Willy McBride and zap baddies at 600 meters with it?....
In AA, the bipod is nice because you can outfit an M4 with a bipod/reflex that makes it a very good all-around weapon. The reflex is nice for CQB and even ranged shots, and when prone with the bipod deployed looking through the reflex, it's a very nice support weapon - albeit with a very limited mag size.

So why would I use an M4/bipod/reflex over an M249 in AA when AA also has a very nice M249 (which I also love using - prefer the AA sounds to INF, too)? The M4 is more flexible. It's "good enough" as a support weapon, and still very good at assault and CQB - which the M249 isn't. And one can't always get the M249, either.

Unfortunately, there isn't any bulk/weight penalty (that I've noticed) for adding accessories to the M4. Other classes have movement/stamina penalties for carrying bulkier weapons (M249, M82, RPG, etc), but I don't think the SOPMOD parts carry any such penalties. So if adding the bipod (or M203 or whatever) lets me cover two roles instead of one and I don't get penalized for carrying it in AA, I'd be a fool not to outfit it, right?

[EDIT] Bearing in mind that INF *does* have bulk/weight penalties, I think that even if users are given the opportunity to outfit an M4 like AA does, it won't happen much. And considering the differences in aiming/ballistics/etc from AA to INF, I doubt very much I'd ever want to use an M4 as a support weapon, but I guess if given the option, I could, right? Or I could always just grab the M249 - don't have to worry about someone else stealing that slot in INF... [/EDIT]

Matthew

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Old 21st Jan 2004, 04:27 PM   #46
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As long as we're barfing out random things to stick on the M4, does anyone else think it might be cool to be able to use a flip-up sight instead of the carry handle sight?

Btw, what's the difference between a reflex sight, an aimpoint, and a red-dot scope?
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Old 21st Jan 2004, 05:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
flip-up sight instead of the carry handle sight?
Aren't those mounted as a backup to more complex optics? Since Inf optics never break down, what would be the point?

[probably wrong]
A reflex sight is one you can use with both eyes open in CQB. Generally it has some sort of transparent reticule that you look at the target through.

A red-dot sight is a reflex sight that works by projecting a (often lit) red-dot of some sort onto a glass plate.

Aimpoint is a brand of red-dot sight.
[/probably wrong]
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Old 21st Jan 2004, 09:07 PM   #48
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as far as i know the reflex sight is mounted on the top rail on the barrle and the aimpoint is mounted ont he handle
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Old 21st Jan 2004, 09:18 PM   #49
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And so long as we're begging for attachments (okay, if not, I'll start)... Hows about getting a reflex on the M249? It's got the picatiny rails on it, and I'm sure we've all seen photos of M249s mounted with optics...

Matthew
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 12:06 AM   #50
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Gnam- An Aimpoint is basically an optical tube, no magnification, with an electoluminiscent indicator adjustable for azimuth, and elevation.(Also it's a trademark for a specefic manufacturer.)

A "reflex" sight, usually refers to sights like the Armeson OEG, where you shoot "both eyes open" , looking at an aiming objective with one eye, and the full field of view of the off eye.(Although I was trained to shoot iron sights "both eyes open", so while I own a few red dots, and reflex sights, I still prefer to use the "MkI eyeball") You cannot look "through" this sight, instead you see a red dot with the aiming eye, the target with the off eye, and your brain overlays the two. Lately, the term "reflex Sight" has been applied to near any low mag, electroluminiscent sighting device outside of iron sights.

The "Red Dot" differs only from the Aimpoint in the fact that it offers some degree of magnification., but basically, the Red Dot, and Aimpoint are the same breed of cat. Again, "Red Dot" is a trademark name as well.

Meplat-

Last edited by Meplat; 22nd Jan 2004 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 04:39 AM   #51
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Duke; for the sake of gameplay i wouldn't want any attachment on the m249. It's a good enough sniper weapon as it is, adding a scope makes it a whore weapon. I'm pretty satisfied with the way it is now.
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 11:34 AM   #52
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Spm- Yes, the M4 flip-up sights are mainly used as a backup to optics, I don't know how functional they are as a stand-alone sight though. I would assume it's not too different from the carry-handle sight because it's basically the same O-ring aperture mounted on a flip-up metal post. I think the main point would mainly just be 'because you can'. Retaining the flat-top look would be a nice cosmetic option, and the flip up sight *might* leave your view a little less obstructed than the carry handle. Just an idea.

Meplat- Thanks for the info.
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 02:33 PM   #53
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Blade- We're not talking about a 24X Unertil on the 249. Just a low power ACOG, or Elcan.

Besides, someone sniping with a 249 is probably going to eat a 40MM.

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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 04:38 PM   #54
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Even a 2x ACOG is a powerfull scope at INF distances.
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 06:15 PM   #55
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what have a 1x ACOG
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 06:27 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_edmond
what have a 1x ACOG
Think first, post second.
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 06:29 PM   #57
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I know it was a joke saying a 2x acog is too powerful
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 09:09 PM   #58
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Actually, a 1x ACOG for the SAw would be pretty usefull. I find it difficult to shoot with the SAW's irons over long range because the posts are so damn small (and the gun is so big) just aiming with crosshairs would be advantage enough to use it.
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Old 7th Feb 2004, 08:13 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnam
Spm- Yes, the M4 flip-up sights are mainly used as a backup to optics, I don't know how functional they are as a stand-alone sight though. I would assume it's not too different from the carry-handle sight because it's basically the same O-ring aperture mounted on a flip-up metal post. I think the main point would mainly just be 'because you can'. Retaining the flat-top look would be a nice cosmetic option, and the flip up sight *might* leave your view a little less obstructed than the carry handle. Just an idea.
This is quite about right. My company commander uses a flattop M4A1 with just the flipup sights.
Tomorrow I'm getting an M4A1 with trijicon acog 4X, a bipod, and an aquilla litton 4X for night shooting.
I'm happy to see that the general opinion around is to add most useful existing attachments - they'll add nice variety to the game.
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Old 13th Feb 2004, 04:36 AM   #60
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Man, shooting with the M4A1 with bipod and trijicon sure is a lot of fun compared to shooting with the M16A1 :P, which makes me think we should have bipods in the game (and have them actually help).
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