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Old 13th Jan 2004, 10:59 PM   #21
MÆST
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anyone know what would be the command so that holding down the key will go 3rd person AND switch to grenade launcher, then, releasing it will switch back to 1st person AND switch to rockets?
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Old 13th Jan 2004, 11:01 PM   #22
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guys, dont mess with the TOGGLEBEHINDVIEW with conc granades...its gonna be fixed for next patch(coming soon)
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 01:07 AM   #23
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They shouldnt fix it.. its hella fun.. and it's not that usefull that it should be fixed.. most of the time you wont reach the ground alive..

Quote:
anyone know what would be the command so that holding down the key will go 3rd person AND switch to grenade launcher, then, releasing it will switch back to 1st person AND switch to rockets?
I think that would be :
... = togglebehindview | switchweapon 3 | onrelease togglebehindview | onrelease | onrelease switchweapon 1

I have behindview binded (bound? (sorry im from holland)) to ALT.. so i can always switch.. and i do all the weapon switching manually.. Mostly when you do Cjump.. you have plenty of time in the air to switch back to normal vieuw again..
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 06:26 AM   #24
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blah blah blah...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MÆST
I'm not going so far to say that they intentionally nulled the effects of CJing 3rd person but in every good game, players will find what first is considered an exploit, then become a mainstay in the game. I doubt the UT designers ever intented Hammer-Jumping to be so popular.

If, they deside to release a patch to put the blinding effect back in, I'd understand though not agree. I'd disagree with those who think this is really cheap. I've been doing it on servers for a while now and I haven't heard one person say "That's cheap". I remember one time, I was CJing from the base of the ramp up top, to the center platform and at the peak of my jump, bam, headshot. Just like in EO, a good sniper can easily take you out midair. You can't dodge in midair, because of the low air control you can't even cange dirction quickly. Also, I can't tell you the number of times when I've tried CJing with the art only to fall to my death. Many of those times, I could have survived if I would have fought my way back to base. Vehicles are still much more efficient then CJing can ever be. It just adds more depth to an already deep game.
ok 1 the hammer jump still does what it is sposed to and u still loose health if u time it right, with conc nade jump the way in which u are doing it you are disabling a weapons ability to stun u, thats not right. no1 would say thats cheap because most would think you was still blinded by the conc nade jump no1 is saying its not a valid tactic only that its unfair to do it and not suffer the effects, even a rocket jump in Quake takes your health down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend Readme
5.3 Concussion jumping
----------------------

There's a reason why the bulk of the combatants in XMP stay reasonably close to
the ground: that's where all the action is. But if you want to get a bird's
eye view of the action, you can try something that's pretty risky: Concussion
jumping.

Just fire a concussion grenade at your feet, and jump when it explodes. You'll
probably be a little woozy, a little blind, and a lot hurt, but it's possible.
ok look at this here its case and point "You'll
probably be a little woozy, a little blind, and a lot hurt, but it's possible. " that pretty much sums it up it was designed to be able to do Conc nade jumps yes, but it was also supposed to not have the ability to resist the effects of the jump.

This will be patched out next patch.
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 07:49 AM   #25
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IMO - using behindview and conc jumping at the SAME TIME should be considered cheezy play. sure, the readme mentions both conc jumping and behindview, but not the both of them together. I don't think Legend intended for the both of them to be used in conjunction, and this is proven by the fact that they will change this in the upcoming patch.

I would like to take this time to thank both the BETA guys and Legend for their continued efforts to improve this game. More companies should take notes from Legend on this matter. Coming from Unreal 1 -> UT -> UT 2k3, treatment like this is a godsend. Legend realizes that the industry is not just a cash cow. A loyal fanbase comes from listening to what the players suggest, and improving your product until people are satisfied. I'm not saying that everyone should be 100% satisfied, because that will never happen. But Legend has done more enough to prove to me that they take pride in their work and accept input from the community.

As a result, I will purchase as many Legend products as possible. I am a full time customer of their products from this point on.
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 03:23 PM   #26
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I don't think you understand. I never claimed that Legend intended for people to use 3rd person to CJ. Mentioning the quotes from the readme was in response to people who thought even using togglebehindview at all online was cheating. When I mention the UT hammar jump, I wasn't relating damage between the two at all, rather I was proving that there are many tricks that players eventually discover that were not originally intended and good for the game.

I, too greatly appreciate Legend for their interaction with the community. I just don't think that because a few people (don't know if it's a coincidence that it's all beta guys) don't like it. I'd much rather have discussions debating the positives and negatives then automatically assuming that it wasn't intended, therefore bad, therefore warranting a patch.

A poll, over at the prounreal forums, asked which class people prefered. At the time I saw it, half voted for ranger, half voted for tech and exactly zero voted for gunner. Even I, who have had the most time out of anybody to work on CJing, still prefer the the ranger. I'm not saying nobody likes the gunner, it's just the majority of the upper calibre players seem to least prefer the gunner. If, possibly, CJing evens the preference at 1/3rd each, I just don't see the logic in the patch.

And don't try to nitpick the readme into resolving Legend's stance on the issue because I could just as easily do the same thing:

Quote:
But if you want to get a bird's
eye view of the action, you can try something that's pretty risky: Concussion
jumping.
How are you to get a "bird's eye view" if you are blinded by the concussion grenade
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 03:35 PM   #27
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a perfect CJ doesnt blind u your just doing it wrong im told :P

this aint gonna be a flaming session
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 03:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MÆST
How are you to get a "bird's eye view" if you are blinded by the concussion grenade
Touche

But I think that what Legend is most worried about, and rightfully so, is that behindview/togglehud eliminate the visual effects from not only conc grenades, but also fire, gas, and any other type of screen flash. That's the main point here.
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 04:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipmunk
Touche

But I think that what Legend is most worried about, and rightfully so, is that behindview/togglehud eliminate the visual effects from not only conc grenades, but also fire, gas, and any other type of screen flash. That's the main point here.
of course, and I'm not trying to counter that point in any way. I do not condone using the togglebehidview thing to null any opponent's effects. In fact, I wasn't even aware that it did that. If I had known, I simply would not have posted this guide. If there's a way, when making the patch, to have the togglebehindview only null concusion grenades shot straight at your feet then that would be the perfect patch. However, since I now know the "right" way to CJ, I guess I could practice that and live with a patch that voided my original method. If anyone has a good way of explaining, in detail, this so called "right" way, please post it and I'll add it to the guide. If not, I'll practice up and you'll get my noob directions
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 04:20 PM   #30
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1 question: how is CJing not considered a "cheesy exploit" if self passing in 2k3 br is?
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 04:30 PM   #31
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Using behindview or other methods to bypass the flashbang part of concussion grenades -is- an exploit and will be fixed. However, you guys still aren't doing concussion jumping in the most powerful way.

Correctly done, it gives you much more height and doesn't blind you. And yes, we've always known both ways were there - you guys aren't doing it in the most powerful way yet. We included the one way in the readme because it's the simplest method, and it wouldn't be any fun if we just told you how. :P
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Old 14th Jan 2004, 04:48 PM   #32
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I love a challenge
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Old 15th Jan 2004, 05:40 AM   #33
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Quote:
Correctly done, it gives you much more height and doesn't blind you. And yes, we've always known both ways were there - you guys aren't doing it in the most powerful way yet. We included the one way in the readme because it's the simplest method, and it wouldn't be any fun if we just told you how. :P
Pleaseee??

Quote:
1 question: how is CJing not considered a "cheesy exploit" if self passing in 2k3 br is?
I played 2k3 for a very little while.. but is self passing that you shoot the ball-thingy up so that you can grab a weapon and shoot, before catching it again? Cuz that seems legal to me..

Quote:
But I think that what Legend is most worried about, and rightfully so, is that behindview/togglehud eliminate the visual effects from not only conc grenades, but also fire, gas, and any other type of screen flash. That's the main point here.
If you are combatting in 3rd person to eliminate the effects from screen flashes.. then your dead anyway.. you cant even see where you're aiming. I think that that disadvantage is way bigger than the little advantage you get from being able to see while you're burning..
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Old 15th Jan 2004, 06:59 AM   #34
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u cant aim without a xhair ? some people have been using BV endlessly in UT and other game without the need for a xhair and still manage to combo your ass, and headshot u, your missing the point android it can be used unfairly
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Old 15th Jan 2004, 08:05 AM   #35
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You have a crosshair.. but your own fat ass is in front of where you are shooting... And i think thats such a big disadvantage.. that you will probably get your ass kicked
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Old 15th Jan 2004, 08:10 AM   #36
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LOL@fat ass

but, it's pretty easy to have some basic precision with BV. with 2k3 it's impossible because you shoot straight ahead regardless of whether you aim up or down (U1, UT, XMP are not like this)
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Old 15th Jan 2004, 09:14 AM   #37
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ah, so you never tried flamethower in BV then?
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 08:46 PM   #38
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UPDATE #1 (ammended to the original post above)

Someone, correct me if I'm wrong, but the new patch allows the togglebehindview trick to still work in some cases. There have definitely been some servers that have updated to the latest patch that still allowed my togglebehindview bind to work and some, it didn't seem to. I'm guessing they fixed it so via that server-side setting that Ðork mentioned, the server admin will be able to decided whether to allow behindview. In my opinion, this is the perfect solution. They also fixed the 'toggleUI' bind that would get rid of the HUD and allow you to bypass the effects of some of the weapons.

So basically what this means, is you can still CJ by the above mentioned method on some servers. Even if a specific server does not allow behind view, it is still possible to CJ using another, more difficult method that I will describe below:

Basically, you will have to shoot a timed concusion grenade (which requires you holding down the alt fire button for an extended time) and shooting it at the ground while standing still. It will not explode instantly like an untimed grenade, rather, it will bounce up and come back down, hopefully with enough time on its fuse to allow you to stand over it. You will want to have your back to the grenade so when it explodes you wont be blinded. It will take a lot of practice to get the timing right, but what you will have to do, is jump right before it explodes. Then, like before, simply enjoy the ride, using your jumpjets as needed.

Be warned, this method is a lot harder and requires even more practice but if done right, can get both amazing distance and height as before. For best results, you will want to do these jumps from a flat surface otherwise, when the grenade bounces, it will not come straight back down and you'll have to chase it down before turning your back on it and jumping-- making it much more dificult. With this method, it is a lot harder to get consistant jumps without practice. Have fun
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Old 24th Jan 2004, 08:20 AM   #39
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I always wanted to ride one of those floating thingies in Sirocco. . .
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Old 24th Jan 2004, 09:04 AM   #40
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. . . And Rampant.
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