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Old 12th Feb 2000, 07:37 PM   #1
wiggum_pi
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I'm looking into buying a new computer, as my current one runs UT at 15 frames per second on average (although I have a lot of detail turned up).

I already have a TNT2 card, and already know that I will get 128 MB RAM... so here are my options.

AMD Athlon 600 -- $220
Asus K7M Motherboard -- $145
Cost: $365

Celeron 400 hopefully OC'ed to 600 MHz -- $55
Good OC'ing motherboard (maybe ZM6) -- $80
Cost: $135

Let me know which you think is the better deal (price/performance ratio) and if either of these setups will crash UT.

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Old 12th Feb 2000, 07:54 PM   #2
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If you're building one, an Athlon seems like a risky choice. (It seems to hate certain hardware for no good reason)

When I get a new computer, I'm getting a whole new one from Alienware or Falcon NW.
That's the way to go if U can at all afford it.


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Old 12th Feb 2000, 08:12 PM   #3
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I really like the Athlon but I wouldn't get one just yet until they implement the new cache at full speed. I have a dual Celeron 366 overclocked at 525 on an ABIT BP6 and it runs very well, even better when I use an OS that enables SMP. I would suggest the Celeron route because they offer more for your money and when they do become obsolete you wont feel as bad. Plus you'll have more money for other things. The new Intel chips are a good choice as well but they are more expensive.
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Old 12th Feb 2000, 09:25 PM   #4
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Yeah Try to get a Falcon NW, they range from 1k to 10k, the 10k one is Totally tricked out!
they make really good computers

or get a Nice Gateway [img]/~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif[/img]

-=666=-


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Old 12th Feb 2000, 09:53 PM   #5
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Falcon and AW are overpriced...if you can do it yourself (which is surprisingly easy)...you will save lots. I'd either go with an Dual O/Ced Celeron or a single Coppermine. You can get 2 366 Mhz Cel's and a dual mobo for about 275 or so USD. Then O/C them to 550.

[This message has been edited by [NWA]BoBVila|PuF (edited 02-12-2000).]
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Old 12th Feb 2000, 10:11 PM   #6
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Get a nice, overclockable Asus k7M mobo. Then get an Athlon 550, and overclock that sucker to 750.

An Athlon 550 has Athlon 750 parts inside it (LITERALLY... the chip is labelled 750mhz...), so you don't need any special cooling aperatus becuase the Athlon 550 is simply an underclocked chip. So it really isn't overclocking... just clocking to the correct frequency.

Or, if you wanna get cheap, get an Athlon 500 and overclock it to 650 (same story as the 550 but doesn't go as high. The Athlon 500s use Athlon 650 parts and are underclocked).

The ONLY reason I would get a celly over this configuration and procedure is if you wanted to get a dual mobo. Cellys are the cheapest mofos you can get for a dual board, assuming you want to try out win NT or some other SMPing OS.

If you want to be safe about overclocking the cheap Athlon, just don't go over 650mhz. Just know that EVERY Athlon uses a chip easilly capable of 650 mhz, and some of them higher.

-Fringe, hope this helps
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Old 12th Feb 2000, 10:15 PM   #7
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Of course...

You could always get a G4 450 Macintosh for Unreal Tourny.

*smirk*
*giggle*
*busts out laughing*

-Fringe
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Old 12th Feb 2000, 10:33 PM   #8
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do u upgrade often or like only once a year? judging from the fact you say you are getting 15fps in UT probly means u dont upgrade often. so dont get a cleron they are already pretty slow by todays standards and the latest models are the worst overlockers. if you think you can take a 400 to 600, 2 words, keep dreaming.

id suggest a Coppermine instead of an athlon. if you already have a BX board, it will accept the Coppermine. they start at 600, and the prices are really coming down. and if u really wanna OC then the coppermines are the best at that. the smaller die and lesss required voltage is great for OC'ing.

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Old 12th Feb 2000, 11:42 PM   #9
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The Athlon is extremely picky about the RAM and power supply.

Falcon NW and Gateway make great systems, but I can build a computer and say a few hundred.

I am a little weary about buying the PIII's because the Athlon seems to be faster, from all accounts. And I don't have a BX board.

Fringe-
Where did you find out about the Athlon 500=650? Does it require any soldering or special CPU attachments?

If that is the case with the Athlon, then I am leaning towards choosing it. Otherwise, the Celeron sounds like a nice-low budget solution.

Any additional info would be nice.

Thanks.


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Old 13th Feb 2000, 12:31 AM   #10
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http://www7.tomshardware.com/

Not sure about the exact link (it was on the site some months ago), but if you hunt around on overclocking information on this site, then you will see it.

This site also tells you BOTH ways to overclock an Athlon... a (somewhat) easy way and a (very) hard way. You WILL have to take the casing apart in both cases, and the hard way requires a soldering iron. I suggest the easy way [img]/~unreal/ubb/html/wink.gif[/img]

Just pay close attention to what he says about voltage and the connections. It is actually quite simple, long as you follow directions. Be careful on the 550=>750 thing though... not 100% of athlon chips have 750 parts (the majority do. Keep in mind that AMD is having no problem getting the chip to go 750 on a standard .25 die... the newer 850s, with .18 die, can go even farther).

hope this helps. Also hope the link works [img]/~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif[/img]

-Fringe

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Old 13th Feb 2000, 02:46 AM   #11
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Hey man.. I think this what what you wanted me to respond to.

I've done my homework on this as you may have seen.

Here's what I would do.. given you have up to $365 to spend.. but the lower the better.. right?

Abit BF6 Motherboard = $100
Celeron 466Mhz (PPGA) = $75 (you should get 525Mhz (x75) minimum possibly 580Mhz (x83).
Slotket (PPGA -> Slot1) Converter = $10
PPGA fan = $7
Total = $192 + shipping of course

Down the road.. chances are you can updgrade the BIOS in that thing and drop in the Pentium III-800E. I know it will currently take the 700E so chances are good it will take the 800E when it comes out (cause the board can do a x8 multiplier).

If you don't want to wait that long... you could drop in a P3-650 or 700 (currently $600 - but will drop of course) .. but if you get a P3 - get the Coppermine, the one with full speed 256k cache. The Athlons have a hard time keeping up with those, and they're more reliable with other hardware.

Don't worry so much about the benchmarks that you see... anyone can show you benchmarks that will prove you wrong. I got a P3-650 and don't see the need for anything faster currently. Even if the Athlon 650 was the same price (it was - or cheaper) I chose the P3 because of stability and performance (the full speed cache was a big kicker in my book).

Your upgrade path and reliability will be much smoother if you go this route.


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Old 13th Feb 2000, 03:21 AM   #12
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Is there any particular reason that you would suggest a BF6 as opposed to a ZM6 or BE6?

At overclockers.com, in the CPU database, I found that many people were able to hit 600 MHz with their Celeron 400, with good cooling solutions.

I agree with you that, currently, there is no real need (for the consumer) to go beyond 650 MHz. However, I still disagree with you, in that I think the Athlon is superior to the PIII.



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Old 13th Feb 2000, 05:10 AM   #13
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If you don't go Athlon, I'd call you a winkerbeen. It's the best chip I've had in my box, including the pee3. Do the Athlon...You'll give yourself a big hug for it later.


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Old 13th Feb 2000, 07:13 PM   #14
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I don't really have any doubts that the Athlon is the better system. But price/performance-wise, it just seems that the Celeron is a better solution.


Who's gonna be the odd man out? I want to be the odd man out.
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Old 13th Feb 2000, 08:03 PM   #15
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Ok, I think I can stay somewhat on topic but in an off topic manner.. hehe
Hm maybe more like a question related to the original poster's question?
So like I've got a BE6 and 500mhz p3 with 128mb ram, and well the original post made me a bit curious.. how much could/should I overclock this thing and how do I do it? What sort of risks do I take by doing so? It's sad but I managed to build a computer without all that much knowledge of how to do stuff like this.. so I am humbly asking for help. [img]/~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif[/img]
Drop me an email, jenny@slackers.net

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Old 13th Feb 2000, 10:09 PM   #16
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Wiggum, if you check around the ebay auctions, you will find guys hawking the overclocking devices for athlons. For about $60, you can buy the finished circuit board that clips onto your athlon. The only hard part is removing the case of the athlon. These add-ons allow you to safely experiment with every multiplier/voltage combination that the chip will do until you find the fastest that it will run stablely. From the reviews I saw of people posting their results, most people would gain minimum of 50mhz, some would gain 150 mhz. If AMD tests their chips, I suppose that they might derate all of them by 50mhz just to be on the safe side.
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Old 13th Feb 2000, 10:31 PM   #17
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If you ask me its like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg [img]/~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif[/img]


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Old 13th Feb 2000, 10:40 PM   #18
wiggum_pi
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HuFlungDung-

I've heard of those devices -- Trinity Micro is selling one for $55. But I'm really afraid of opening the Athlon -- if it goes bust, then I'll have nothing. For people like me, Trinity Micro is offering the chip + installation for $100. But right now, I'm still leaning towards the less expensive Celeron.


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Old 14th Feb 2000, 01:26 PM   #19
Mute
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Use the Abit ZM6 and Celeron 466. You won't need a Slot1->Socket370 converter that way, and yes the ZM6 only provided 3 slots for RAM, but unless you really want more than 768M you'll be fine.

I just made this computer on Saturday for a friend:

Abit ZM6
466 Celeron
Voodoo3 3000 (she isn't a gamer so i just got her something leading edge, not bleeding edge)
Sound Blaster Live! Value:
I wish I'd gotten this instead of the SoundBlaster Live! for my own computer. I'll never use any of the digital input technology that cost me the $100 extra dollars that it provides
CDRom 52X:
I wish I'd gotten that instead of the DVD 6X that I bought. i haven't used the DVD capabilities once and by the time programs start getting shipped on DVD mine will be obsolete. And I saved $150 for her.
128M Ram.
And she went hog wild on monitor and case since she wanted something flashy.

total cost of $1100 (only $730 before monitor and case) for a real leading edge computer that can handle UT perfectly. I'm never buying whole computers again...



[This message has been edited by mute (edited 02-14-2000).]
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Old 14th Feb 2000, 01:59 PM   #20
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Mute, only problem is.. the ZM6 may be limited to PPGA, not FC-PGA - so the upgrade life is pretty short. With the BE6-II, you can use the slotket for the Celeron 466PPGA then upgrade to a Pentium III 700/100E or 800E/100 in the future.

Otherwise, you're kinda stuck with.. 533Mhz Celeron PPGA chips.


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