New mutator to protect spawns?

[NTKB]

Heres a suggestion Bushwack gave last night. I wanna post it hopefully without him getting mad cause its a good idea.

He suggested that somone code a mutator that makes the sniper actor shoot at anyone in the enemy team who fires into a certain map defined spawn radius. I suggested a bit further that the sniper actor kill anyone automatically who kills someone in the spawn area. Then it would be a 1 for 1 trade. What do you guys think?

[spm1138]

I suggested this a couple of days ago

I also suggested that a cloud of smoke around the spawn would prevent people abusing this by shooting out of the protected area and mark the area into which you could not shoot into.

Perhaps having the sniper kill people firing out of the protected area would also be a good idea.

[yurch]

What happens in maps like skopje where defenders can sit and fire from within thier sniper coverage? Is anyone who returns fire going to automatically die, even if across the map at the CD?

[Bushwack]

I didnt suggest it for all maps, there are some where you get 2 feet out of your spawn as an attacker and get nailed by someone "not" camping your spawn though...or maybe its a map adjustable variable, the 'bubble' in which the sniper class attacks people too close to the spawns may need to be larger {only on some maps}

Skopje is a bad example, with only 2 exits from the defenders spawn, and one possible from the attackers, leading down linear streets, there is most times direct line of sight to where you are coming from/heading to.
Chemical threat would be a better example, spawning relatively uncovered under the chopper until youve capped the interior room gets you sniped constantly from the roof .
Belfast, its too easy for the defenders to cover the attackers spawn exits from the complete other side of the map, resulting in pissing and moaning

Just some examples, constructive criticism.

[spm1138]

Chemical threat would be a better example, spawning relatively uncovered under the chopper until youve capped the interior room gets you sniped constantly from the roof .

Yes.

Unless you're playing a team that has a decent sniper with the presence of mind to **** ** **** ***** (find your own damn spot) and start locking down the roof it is ridiculously easy to pick the O team to bits as they spawn.

[NTKB]

Originally Posted by yurch

What happens in maps like skopje where defenders can sit and fire from within thier sniper coverage? Is anyone who returns fire going to automatically die, even if across the map at the CD?

As I said. If you shoot while in your spawn area your no longer "protected." This system im sure could be abused in some way like in skopje (maybe we can iron out the kinks?) but its much better than being naded as soon as I appear.

EDIT: Besides as I mentioned before perhaps it could be a mapper option with adjustable variables? This would allow the mapper to make sure it isnt abused on future maps.

[Hadmar]

Originally Posted by yurch

What happens in maps like skopje where defenders can sit and fire from within thier sniper coverage? Is anyone who returns fire going to automatically die, even if across the map at the CD?

Oh, just switch it around an aply it the other way too ->
You kill somone inside a spawn area: you die.
You kill somone from inside of a spawn area: you die.

The question is what will happen if somone camps the spawn and dosn't shoot and the spawner dosn't shoot either? A mind game: Who will be the first who is sure that the spawner left the spawn area, the spawner or the camper? Who will shoot first? A situation of thrilling magnitude never seen before! Film at 11!

[randomas]

Doh posted this in the wrong thread (darn forum hanging, got me confused) ...

Anyways ...

What about just having a short period say 10 seconds or less in which you are immortal and can't shoot. It would give you time to get your bareings and take cover effectively.

[TOAD]

I suggest get volunteers to protect the spawn area, and treat spawn exits as choke points.

[NTKB]

Originally Posted by TOAD

I suggest get volunteers to protect the spawn area, and treat spawn exits as choke points.

This is easy to say when a server is full but often its not and you must deal with the entire team needing to move in.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by {GD}NTKB

This is easy to say when a server is full but often its not and you must deal with the entire team needing to move in.

Well that is the decision your team has to make, the same can be said with the other team. If they want to ambush your spawn point then they won't have as many people defending the CD. If the whole defending team is ambushing the attacker's spawn exits then they got the attacking team back against the wall then.

[Beppo]

Prob is that on maps like skopje two or three guys are enough to control either one of the spawn areas fully with not much of a chance to get out alive.
Some lamers even fire constantly with minimis at the tents... killing guys directly at the time they spawn. With some hundred shots in the backpack this is a 'bit' lame so to speak.

Maps like Skopje do not allow to place more sniper actors cause the routes they would block then have to be open for both sides. So the suggestion here of a 'protected' area of some sort that maybe protects you till you fire the first round is not such a bad idea at all. Sure it needs proper testing and it cannot get 100% perfect but maybe it is a good start.
Problem is... how does the enemy know that it is 'ok' to fire at you? If he can see you then he cannot tell if you have already fired a round or not...
So, maybe let the players spawn hidden/invisible and invulnerable. If they get outside the sniper actors radius or fire a shot then they switch back to visible and vulnerable mode. To not allow ie a defender to 'wait' till the attacker turned his back towards him, a little time limit should be added too. So, grant them ten secs of moving around before they get visible and vulnerable automatically.
Maybe the mixture of this can be enough. No need to auto-kill someone that fires at the spawns then.

A mutator can do this all... it can intercept the damage taken, can place the guys invulnerable and hidden aso... should be doable.

Beppo

[Beretta_Abuser]

the problem is the time ur invulnerable...

I remember deus ex MP, u had a time of invulnerbility for about 10 secs, in some maps that was ok, in oher u could be at the enemy's base by then....

10 secs would be ok for a map like sicily...

and 10 sec would suck at a map like MWH....

so it would be very nice if it would be able to set the times per map(is this possible?) so that the mapper can set his/her own time...

[Bushwack]

a realy cheesy easy way would be to auto place a smokescreen at the very edge of the sniper actors peripheral, IE if the lamers cant see you they canty hit you either, or would this kill everyones framerates?
{dunno since my comp is pretty up to date}

[FieldMedic]

For UT , you had the very good EavySpawnProtect, that was a server side mutator, with some options for any respawn protection problem.

I tested it under INF2.9 and unfortunately it doesnt seem to work there

Something like it , but compatible with INF2.9 can be really interesting to solve all the possible problem of "spawn area control" (to not say "spawn camping" ) by an opponent team

[Beppo]

Originally Posted by Beretta_Abuser

the problem is the time ur invulnerable...

I remember deus ex MP, u had a time of invulnerbility for about 10 secs, in some maps that was ok, in oher u could be at the enemy's base by then....

10 secs would be ok for a map like sicily...

and 10 sec would suck at a map like MWH....

so it would be very nice if it would be able to set the times per map(is this possible?) so that the mapper can set his/her own time...

You forgot the combination I spoke about...
The invulnerability will end if:
a) time ie 10 secs runs out
b) you fire your weapon or
c) you leave the spawn area (no longer within the range of any of your teams sniper classes)

So you do not have a 'map-specific' problem this way. And even if you would need to setup different times per map... no prob at all (see different timelimits per map within INF fe.).

[FieldMedic]

Originally Posted by Beppo

You forgot the combination I spoke about...
The invulnerability will end if:
a) time ie 10 secs runs out
b) you fire your weapon or
c) you leave the spawn area (no longer within the range of any of your teams sniper classes)

So you do not have a 'map-specific' problem this way. And even if you would need to setup different times per map... no prob at all (see different timelimits per map within INF fe.).

I used to play with the Eavy Spawn Protection mutator i attached previously and all of this was part of this mutator and could be configured.

Now if someone can convert it for INF2.9 support, i am sure it should interest lot of people complaining about possible spawn camping in some specific maps.
from the readme.txt :

- 6 KB zipped, 18 KB package, and it's server-side-only. It will not be downloaded to clients at all. You shouldn't add it to the serverpackages list, just add it to the mutator list, and run the server.
- Mod configuration menu included for easy graphical setup (open up the mod menu and click on the mutator item to configure all options through the graphical user interface)
- Console commands also supported for powerful remote administration (use a command like "Set EavySpawnProtect.EavySpawnProtection ActivateSpawnProtect True")
- Spawn protection only protects against other players, not against self- inflicted damage, or environmental hazards
- Protected players will be translucent, appearing like ghosts, gradually manifesting over time while protection runs out
- The mutator's overall protection features can be toggled on and off using the menu or a console command
- Not only does it protect against damage, but it also prevents knockback so freshly spawned players won't be bounced around by their enemies, unless the admin turns that option off
- Minimum protection time determines how long it takes until protection wears off completely if the protected player has started to move
- Maximum protection time determines how long it takes until protection wears off if the protected player doesn't move after respawning
- Normal protection only runs out once a player has moved away from the spawnpoint, so if a camper is waiting nearby, you will remain protected until you feel ready to move
- To prevent abuse, the protection will run out anyway after a certain amount of time, as determined by the server admin (no sitting ducks that are invulnerable)
- Protected players can use weapons without limitations so being a spawncamper will be very dangerous (and quite impossible)
- Protected players can take a percentage of the damage dealt as determined by the administrator (0 - 999%)
- Spawncampers who hit a protected player can take damage as well (0 - 999%) to punish their assault on a freshly spawned player
- Default values protect a player for as long as they don't move, but as soon as they move, they are vulnerable again (change the defaults to your liking)
SUGGESTED SETTINGS - pick your favorite:
1) Only protect while respawning, but no protection afterwards. This is useful if you don't want a sniper to shoot a player the second they respawn, or to prevent a camper lobbing grenades at a spawnpoint, and similar situations. It has the least impact on gameplay because it only protects the spawning process. Minimum protection time should be zero, maximum protection time a little more, somewhere between 10 and 30 seconds is a good value.
2) Don't protect spawning players, but punish campers. Set victim and instigator damage percentage to 100 so the respawning player will take normal damage, but the attacker will take the same damage. A minimum protection time of three to five seconds is good.
3) Protect respawning players while punishing campers. Simply set the instigator damage scale to a high value and watch them kill themselves when they attack a harmless player.
4) Play a knockmatch. Set minimum protection time to an extremely high value, maximum to zero (i.e. unlimited), and turn the momentum protection off. Now players can't hurt each other, only knock each other around.
5) The Quake3 way. Give a player 25 % more health when respawning by reducing damage dealt by the same value. Set victim damage scale to 75 and 25 % of the damage will be ignored. Keep minimum protection time around 5 seconds and maximum the same amount of time.

[Beppo]

Eavy Spawn is not bad but not actually fitting too good.

What we need has to use the used Sniper actors within the maps to define the correct spawn area that is worth the protection. Else point c) would not be included.
And a damage penalty for shooting at guys spawning is not the way to go imo.

[NTKB]

Originally Posted by Beppo

Eavy Spawn is not bad but not actually fitting too good.

What we need has to use the used Sniper actors within the maps to define the correct spawn area that is worth the protection. Else point c) would not be included.
And a damage penalty for shooting at guys spawning is not the way to go imo.

But it seems more realistic than making someone invincible

At least then you could simulate a fireteam covering the LZ!

[Bushwack]

i figured out another way to protect spawn camping, if the sniper actors range cant be increased to actually cover the area serverside, or by mappers {this is assuming editing the maps for the spawn camping would be a lot of work}, you could have something akin to Random Team Spawn occur when it 'detects' someone is killed at or in thier spawn area, then you would get alternate spawning in another safe area in the defenders/attackers spawn areas.
Would that be possible?

Because, to be honest, im really tired of my limited respawns being freakin wasted trying to get the lame people who just live to camp your spawn areas and ruin the flow and fun of the game, i feels its a SERIOUS inhibitor to enjoying the game, thus far aside from some weapon things, its my only legitimate 'bitch' about 2.9.
To use a more youthful euphemism......its lame and i'm REAL tired of gettin 'gayed' at spawn